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Anmdt

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Ooo. TCG ANADOLU won't have ATMACA ?are there any information Türkish Nay going to do with LHD? İ mean Which weapons will it have ?
It will have heavy attack helicopter, utility helicopter, ZAHA, 2x (or 4xLCT/LCU) , a flight hangar. Possibly UAVs and Rotor UAV.
The Attack helicopter will be carrying umtas nlos, mrashm, kuzgun. I think these matters more than Atmaca.
Atmaca will be carried by frigates or FACs.
In my opinion each spot on flight deck is valuable to not be wasted by Atmaca.
 
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It will have heavy attack helicopter, utility helicopter, ZAHA, 2x (or 4xLCT/LCU) , a flight hangar. Possibly UAVs and Rotor UAV.
The Attack helicopter will be carrying umtas nlos, mrashm, kuzgun. I think these matters more than Atmaca.
Atmaca will be carried by frigates or FACs.
In my opinion each spot on flight deck is valuable to not be wasted by Atmaca.
We could arm navy helicopters then.
Just we need SOMs compact variant 100 km range like MARTE-ER

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US Navy has picked up Naval Strike Missiles instead of penguins since NSM has longer range and lighter weight than Harpoons.
The NSM uses infrared guidance to home in on its target, has a range of over 100 nautical miles, and packs a 265-pound warhead. The system can not only be fired from surface ships. With a total weight of 770 pounds, it’s light enough to be carried by the Navy’s MH-60R Seahawk helicopters.

Here is great example of helicopter launched Exocets.

Another example from Russia : navalized KA-52 with Kh- 35 Anti-Ship missile.

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However without Anti-ship missiles TCG ANADOLU seems to me meager..
 
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AzeriTank

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We could arm navy helicopters then.
Just we need SOMs compact variant 100 km range like MARTE-ER

View attachment 12982

View attachment 12983 View attachment 12984

US Navy has picked up Naval Strike Missiles instead of penguins since NSM has longer range and lighter weight than Harpoons.
The NSM uses infrared guidance to home in on its target, has a range of over 100 nautical miles, and packs a 265-pound warhead. The system can not only be fired from surface ships. With a total weight of 770 pounds, it’s light enough to be carried by the Navy’s MH-60R Seahawk helicopters.

Here is great example of helicopter launched Exocets.

Another example from Russia : navalized KA-52 with Kh- 35 Anti-Ship missile.

View attachment 12985

View attachment 12986
View attachment 12997
View attachment 12987
However without Anti-ship missiles TCG ANADOLU seems to me meager..
why do you think Turkey made TJ300? its Turkish version of NSM missile, i mentioned it but many people didnt catch it.. its also designed to carry 320+kg missiles, which is the same with NSM and its size mattered because of the helicopters. otherwise its childish to think that they worked on the size that much just to fit it in the ship... ships easily able to carry any..
with its close to supersonic 0.9+ Mach it could be another headache and its way easier to make tj30 with 3D which means lots of them for cheap price.. also, Turkish version will also use thermal head as you can see from tj300 engine test, and picture of it there. having thermal head mean super silent as active radar could be seen once its on and also could be jammed, but these will be silent killers and also good test about thermal head
 
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The Hellenic Navy is currently equipped with three S-70B, eight S-70B-6 AegeanHawks and seven AB212ASWs.
Also The Greek government has signed letters of acceptances (LOA) to purchase four MH-60R helicopters and modernize old S-70B6 rotorcraft.
On the other hand hellenic army had 28 Apaches, and purchased from US used 70 armed Kiowa warriors.
Soon they will lease Baron UAVs from Israel.

It boils down Turkish Navy might need more detailed network of airdefence consist of SAMs that could engage at 8-10 km altitude and 20-30 km range.
It brings me next point, since YTKBs are patrol vessels , they should be armed HİSAR-A/O + MAR-D and MrAshM. Nonetheless they should be armed with new light torpedos as the Fins made with Hamina-class missile boat.This boat more than fast attack vessel since It patrols and had ASW torpedos.
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Not using domestic torpedos, SAMs, AshMs seems to me incomprehensible.

Enough is enough , İnsert in just HİSAR-A+ Mar-D :p
 

Anmdt

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The Hellenic Navy is currently equipped with three S-70B, eight S-70B-6 AegeanHawks and seven AB212ASWs.
Also The Greek government has signed letters of acceptances (LOA) to purchase four MH-60R helicopters and modernize old S-70B6 rotorcraft.
On the other hand hellenic army had 28 Apaches, and purchased from US used 70 armed Kiowa warriors.
Soon they will lease Baron UAVs from Israel.

It boils down Turkish Navy might need more detailed network of airdefence consist of SAMs that could engage at 8-10 km altitude and 20-30 km range.
It brings me next point, since YTKBs are patrol vessels , they should be armed HİSAR-A/O + MAR-D and MrAshM. Nonetheless they should be armed with new light torpedos as the Fins made with Hamina-class missile boat.This boat more than fast attack vessel since It patrols and had ASW torpedos.
View attachment 13043

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View attachment 13042

Not using domestic torpedos, SAMs, AshMs seems to me incomprehensible.

Enough is enough , İnsert in just HİSAR-A+ Mar-D :p
Mar-D can eventually find a place on YTKBs and probably a developed variant of Sungur (-N) . Hisar-O would be an over-kill and hard to fit on. But medium range AShM ,i think can be placed. Or a canister launched variant of G40 suits better too.
If Turkmenistan navy's YTKB can handle that much of armanement, Turkish Navy's YTKB can handle as well.
We should also wait for newer systems and how they are going to be integrated on several platforms.
Such as :
Light weight torpedo
Ship launched kamikaze -surveliance drones
Sungur (referred above)
MRAShM (referred above)
USV
 
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Oublious

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Greece’s request from Germany to stop technical help in producing new Turkish submarines have bee turned down. Germans have said that the whole contract is signed and sealed and can not be tampered with.


Why would Germans do something like that, Greece did cost German taxpayer billions, German companies will lose jobs because of spoiled lazy Greece?
 

Yasar_TR

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Mar-D can eventually find a place on YTKBs and probably a developed variant of Sungur (-N) . Hisar-O would be an over-kill and hard to fit on. But medium range AShM ,i think can be placed. Or a canister launched variant of G40 suits better too.
If Turkmenistan navy's YTKB can handle that much of armanement, Turkish Navy's YTKB can handle as well.
We should also wait for newer systems and how they are going to be integrated on several platforms.
Such as :
Light weight torpedo
Ship launched kamikaze -surveliance drones
Sungur (referred above)
MRAShM (referred above)
USV
I am fully behind you about arming the YTKB’s to the hilt. As the saying goes: “Flaunt it if you’ve got it” .
We have a very capable littoral waters ship in hand. It has a lot of space that can be utilised. All it has at the moment is 2 x stamp 12.7mm remote controlled guns and a 40mm Oto- melara twin compact main gun. Plus 2 x4 Roketsan depth charge missiles.
It really needs at least a Sungur air defence missile and a MRAShM for naval targets up to 120km. And of course a radar to support these.
 
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It boils down one thing, Turkish Defence industry should show us a system which is C-Dome or Sea Captor equivalent:cool:
 

AzeriTank

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Mar-D can eventually find a place on YTKBs and probably a developed variant of Sungur (-N) . Hisar-O would be an over-kill and hard to fit on. But medium range AShM ,i think can be placed. Or a canister launched variant of G40 suits better too.
If Turkmenistan navy's YTKB can handle that much of armanement, Turkish Navy's YTKB can handle as well.
We should also wait for newer systems and how they are going to be integrated on several platforms.
Such as :
Light weight torpedo
Ship launched kamikaze -surveliance drones
Sungur (referred above)
MRAShM (referred above)
USV
Turkey want to use unmanned systems for these missions, that i think super smart.. no need to loose soldiers.. you are able to use them taking way more risks.. lets say before landing, goes around the island, clean it for coming forces.
 

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I think TN is ensuring. Correct armament on our vessels. But I can understand the feeling of wanting to be armed to the teeth. I hope that installing AshM is a process that can be done fast in case of war breaking out. But I think it is important to realize that arming vessels too much would start an arms race. Just look at Greece a small step of ours forces them to leap into more economic crises.

I think it’s good also not to show off too much regardless of how much others rattle with the sabers.
 

Khagan1923

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16x Tuzla-Class in inventory, not arming them to the teeth would be a fatal mistake. And I'm sure TN is aware of this.

At the least, MRAShM and Sungur is a must.
 

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Analysis: The Future Of The Turkish Navy​




Turkish Navy picture

Analysis: The Future Of The Turkish Navy​

The presence and visibility of the Turkish Naval Forces (Türk Deniz Kuvvetleri) have increased considerably within the Blue Homeland doctrine framework for several years. Regional disputes require Turkish naval forces to deploy more at sea. Thus, the Turkish defense industry's national policy has supported the continuously active Turkish Navy (TN), and a force composition is formed with indigenous weapons and systems.​

Tayfun Ozberk 15 Feb 2021

The Turkish government is aware that an expanded, modernized fleet would add further muscle to the armed forces to protect its regional interests. Although there are so many parameters required to measure a navy’s strength, having substantial and technological assets is the first condition for building a navy’s future. Therefore, Turkey’s “indigenous move” aims to transform TN into one of the most remarkable naval powers worldwide. After the commissioning of Landing Helicopter Dock “Anadolu” TN is likely to form task groups and show presence at the open seas more than before. In addition, the Turkish President’s statement about the aircraft carrier project at the launching ceremony of the first domestic frigate “Istanbul” was a sign that the Turkish navy will be in the oceans in the future.

Currently, the backbone of the TN is the upgraded Gabya-class (Oliver Hazard Perry) frigates. In addition, the Barbaros-class frigates, which are newer and more technologically advanced, are also considered as critical assets. The TN operates in the surrounding seas with the largest submarine fleet of the Mediterranean, newly built Ada-class corvettes, and FACs.

As the Navy ages, Turkey plans to renew its fleet with indigenous efforts. After the CAATSA sanctions imposed by the U.S. because of Turkey’s S-400 air defense system purchase from Russia, indigenous solutions have become the most important of the few options. For this reason, the President of the Turkish Defence Industry promulgated last month that almost all of the main systems and weapons (including CIWS and VLS) of the I-class frigates will be developed by local companies. LHD Anadolu, Turkey’s largest warship ever, is scheduled to enter service for the TN this year. Although she will not carry F35B STOVL aircraft due to the sanctions imposed, she will significantly increase TN’s power projection capacity. The Anadolu will be able to transport a force the size of a minimum battalion without needing home base support. LHD Anadolu will meet the TN’s various needs — such as sustaining long-endurance, long-distance military combat, or humanitarian relief operations — while also acting as a command center and flagship for the Turkish Navy.

Ongoing projects that shape the future of the Turkish Navy​


The Turkish Navy fleet by year-end. Image provided by @miguyan2000

MILGEM project​

The MILGEM (an abbreviation of “national ship”) project forms the basis for the renewal and strengthening of the Turkish Navy. Within the MILGEM project’s scope, 4 ADA-class corvettes were commissioned so far, and from the 5th ship, I-class frigates have started to be built. The Istanbul frigate is expected to be commissioned in 2023, and the three sister ships will enter service for the TN by 2027. While I-class frigates will replace the Yavuz classes, Barbaros-class frigates will undergo mid-life modernization and will be equipped with indigenous and modern sensors.

TF-2000 Air Defense Destroyer​

TF-2000-1024x683.jpg
TF-2000

The air defense needs of the TN’s task groups are met by Gabya-class frigates currently. As the replacement of Gabya-class frigates, four anti-air-warfare destroyers are planned to be commissioned within the scope of the TF-2000 project in the next decade. TF-2000 destroyers will be fitted with indigenous multifunctional CAFRAD AESA radar. The TF-2000 destroyers are expected to launch SIPER long-range air defense missiles which are still under-development.

Other surface combatants​

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Future Turkish Navy OPV

In addition to the frigates and destroyer projects, UFUK, a modern intelligence ship, will enter service this year. The Turkish Navy plans to commission two additional Bayraktar-class LST, and two offshore patrol vessels to protect its interests around EEZ. FAC-55 project will replace aged FACs within the next decade.

Support vessels​

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DIMDEG

Along with the combatants, TN plans to renew its logistics assets. Two medium-sized fuel tankers, whose construction has been completed, are expected to enter the fleet this year. Turkey intends to expand its logistics fleet with the large combat support ship DIMDEG by 2023. 16 Tuzla-class patrol boats, two large tugboats, and a submarine rescue ship called MOSHIP, which were completed and put into service, will serve for many years and contribute to the modern face of the TN.

Submarines​

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Reis-class submarine

The Turkish Navy will meet AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) technology with Type 214TN Reis-class submarines. The class’s lead submarine was launched last year, and six submarines are planned to be commissioned until 2027. It is expected that the Turkish Defense Industry, which cooperates with TKMS (Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems) for this project, will reflect the know-how experience gained from here to the indigenous submarine project called MILDEN. Locally developed torpedo “AKYA” and anti-ship missile “ATMACA” are expected to be launched from these submarines. According to many Turkey experts, MILDENs will be capable of launching indigenous “GEZGIN” cruise missiles, but there is no satisfactory explanation made by the officials yet.

Maritime Patrol Aircraft​

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MELTEM III MPA

Modernization of the Naval Aviation, a critical unit of the naval forces, continues with the Meltem project. Thales completed the command control systems and sensors modernization of the CN-235 maritime patrol aircraft (MPA), and the first ATR-72 (renamed as P-72) MPA was commissioned last year. A total of eight ATR-72 MPAs will enter service for the Turkish Naval Aviation as the last phase of the project.

UCAV​

In addition to the Meltem project, the Turkish Naval Air Force will be equipped with unmanned systems. The breakthrough made by the Turkish defense industry in unmanned aerial vehicles provides more cost-effective reconnaissance and surveillance activities at sea. In addition to reconnaissance missions, Anka and TB-2 Bayraktar UCAVs can launch locally developed MAM-L laser-guided ammunition, UMTAS, and CİRİT missiles. These weapons can have devastating effects on the surface assets, which have weak air defense capabilities. TN plans to commission more than 20 UCAVs in the coming years.

MALE UAV​

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Aksungur, a Medium Altitude Long Endurance (MALE) class UAV System, is considered one of the most critical projects in strengthening the naval aviation force. It can perform day and night Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR), and strike missions with EO/IR, SAR, SIGINT payloads, and various air to ground weapons. Aksungur is expected to be used in anti-submarine warfare missions due to its high payload and sonobuoy carrying capacity, it is expected to launch lightweight torpedo in the following years. Turkish Aerospace Industries will start mass production of Aksungur this year.

USV​

Turkey’s first UCSV ULAQ was launched last week. The sea trials and missile test-fires are expected to be completed by half of the year. Later versions of ULAQ will be built according to the task it will perform. The version built for surface warfare will be capable to launch ATMACA anti-ship missiles, while ULAQ for ASW purposes can launch torpedoes.

Future policy​

GENESIS-ADVENT-Network-centric-1024x576.jpg


The current efforts to renew the fleet indicates that Turkey wants to be stronger in the sea. While establishing an effective A2/AD in the surrounding seas with its development trend in unmanned technology, it wants to be effective in areas far from the mainland with the LHD and aircraft carrier projects. Supporting the counter-piracy efforts in the Gulf of Aden since 2008 and touring the African continent with a task group formed in 2014 was the first sign that the Turkish Navy wanted to be in the oceans, which was the primary motivation for the ship and missile projects to build future naval forces. Thus, while the TN assets contribute multinational efforts such as CTF-151 in Africa, SNMG2, and UNIFIL in the Mediterranean, they participate in exercises carried out overseas as well.

In addition to its support for the activities carried out by NATO for decades, the TN wants to take more responsibilities and assume critical roles in NATO. Thus, Turkey initiated efforts to form the Turkish High Readiness Maritime Task Force (TURMARFOR) in July 2018 with the Turkish General Staff’s approval and tested this force’s operational capability in a “Dogu Akdeniz-2019”. TURMARFOR was established in the Aksaz Naval Base; after LHD Anadolu is commissioned, which is declared to NATO for this purpose, she will be the main asset of TURMARFOR. Turkey is the fifth country of NATO assumes a high-readiness task group role.

With the Turkish Defense Industry’s GENESIS ADVENT combat management system, the network-centric warfare applications at sea have begun. After coupling with other assets of the Turkish Armed Forces (TAF) via the “Kement” project, TN assets will be capable of conducting operations under the network of TAF. To sum up, the Turkish Naval Forces are taking steps accordingly to have an operational fleet that is effective in the open seas in the future, undertakes important roles in NATO, and fulfills the requirements of modern naval warfare. With the contemporary force composition, TN aims to be among the most effective navies globally and take part in all kinds of projects that will help keep the peace all over the world.

 

Nutuk

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We have been talking about VTOL aircraft for the TCG Anadolu, Cihat Yayci pasa talked about eventual Harriers.

But don't we have a third way? What about for instance to prep Hurkus for Short take off and short landing? American and Japanese used propeller fighter in ww2 on aircraft carriers, aren't we able to to that 80 years later?

Sure Hurkus is not the ideal choice, but something is better than nothing. Hurjet could maybe follow suite.
 
T

Turko

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We have been talking about VTOL aircraft for the TCG Anadolu, Cihat Yayci pasa talked about eventual Harriers.

But don't we have a third way? What about for instance to prep Hurkus for Short take off and short landing? American and Japanese used propeller fighter in ww2 on aircraft carriers, aren't we able to to that 80 years later?

Sure Hurkus is not the ideal choice, but something is better than nothing. Hurjet could maybe follow suite.
From future conventional aircraft carrier could be considered UAVs such as Bayraktar, ANKA , İnstead of Hürkuş. İ find sending manned turboprop Hürkuş over hostile airspace dangerous.
However i watched documentary about Falkland war in which subsonic Harriers dealed well with supersonic Mirages .
If we had upgraded Harrier AV-8 it would be awesome. They can launch AMRAAMs, helmet mounted sidewinders, they have latest advanced radars etc. Also AV-8 2 body is made from composit materials whereas old ones were from alüminyum. So that it decrease RCS.
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At least we could inquire some av-8 II to US .
 
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Test7

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TCG Canakkale (S358) visited the Albania's Durres after Mavi Vatan 2021 Exercise
@isozygio

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11.jpg
 
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Anmdt

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If it was bought by Navy that would definitely deserve to be in this thread.
Morelikey bought by a shipyard to scrap, bet goes on to izmir/Aliaga.
Actually the source is right the ship could be equipped with some electronics to assist aerial operations (like approach radar, comms etc) and can be used as shore based training facility to conduct landing/take off for multiple aircrafts or to train amphibious teams.
Such a platform can be easily built by some shipyards as well (would cost somewhere between 50m to 100m), since it won't be a full feature aircraft carrier but an exercise platform to rest in shore or propel at open seas for practise, no need to rely on a steel junk.
 

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