TR Turkiye's F-35 Project and Discussions

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F-35 is best fighter today because it is:
* Best in stealth.
* Best in sensor fusion.

The only serious weakness of the F-35 is not its speed or maneuverability as haters claim. They are more than adequate, but that it has only 1 pilot. Thats pretty heavy load with the amount of sensors.
 

tayyare

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I think 4 amraams for air to air loadout in stealth config is a bit underwhelming, considering a good number of nations will rely on F35 as their sole fighter for next 40 years. Though they are planning to bump it to 6 for F35A and maybe C? My biggest issue is block 4 software and hardware requiring an engine upgrade and US potentially ditching existing engine for GE which would mean throwing away perfectly fine engines, and partner countries having no say in the matter. F35B is probably the best thing to come out of this program as it is much better than what it replaces but other models suffered for it.
 

Brokengineer

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F-35 is best fighter today because it is:
* Best in stealth.
* Best in sensor fusion.

The only serious weakness of the F-35 is not its speed or maneuverability as haters claim. They are more than adequate, but that it has only 1 pilot. Thats pretty heavy load with the amount of sensors.
Only serious weakness of f35 is for buyer countries since they cannot service plane, they have no control over logistics, they cannot even fly it without activation key coming from pentagon. Otherwise, it will best stealth - sensor fused 5th generation fighter.
 
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what

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Found a good article about the ongoing and resolved issues with the F35, in German but with the help of Google Translate or DeepL worth a read:

 

Khagan1923

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Found a good article about the ongoing and resolved issues with the F35, in German but with the help of Google Translate or DeepL worth a read:


The future of the F-35 hinges on the NGAD programs of the USN and USAF. Which are seperate programs by the way just carry the same name. If I was a potential buyer I would keep my eye on updated relating to those programs. I do not see the USAF waisting billions buying 1000+ F-35 once the NGAD is in the air and ready for serial-production. They will most likely cut their orders and reinvest the money back into purchases for the NGAD. The same goes for the USN. They want a true F-18 replacement, called F/A-XX.


These programs have been going for almost if not even over a decade by now, we also know made by statements from officials that prototypes are already in the air. So they are not so far off as some might believe. We might see them enter production towards the end of this decade maybe even earlier. (I think the retirement plan for the F-22 fleet gives us a good timetable on that)


I think this will lead to the F-35 becoming the step-child of the fleet. Still capable and good but not really that high up on the list for the Americans.

Which of course doesn't mean the F-35 is garbage. On the contrary I think it is a very good fighter for our time and will probably keep the title of the best for the next decade until the NGAD takes to air. After that I imagine it will become the next F-16. The backbone of many Air Forces around the world for decades to come. But will not get much attention of the Americans once they have their better toys to play with, just like the F-16.

Also as a end note. If the Air Force and Navy could get their hands of the F-35A and B they would do so without thinking. I do not take the opinions of people who change their tune the second their dear leader does so serious. Neither should you.
 

Bogeyman 

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Found a good article about the ongoing and resolved issues with the F35, in German but with the help of Google Translate or DeepL worth a read:


This article is out of date. Dating from 2020. You can follow the current program from these links.

 

Yasar_TR

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There is a saying in English:
Jack of all trades, master of none
The situation with F35 is exactly that.
Fantastic piece of technology. Marvellous specifications on paper regarding Stealth and Combat performance.
But when it comes to reality there are far too many chinks in the armour of this bird to be viable as a good dependable fighting machine.
It all stems from far too many requirements and expectations that are demanded from one plane and one airframe.
1. It has to be stealth
2. It has to carry lots of ammunition
3. It has to have spacious internal weapon bays
4. It’s sensor array and electronics has to be state of the art
5. It has to have a powerful Aesa radar
6. It has to have an electro optical sensor (IRST equivalent)
7. It has to be structurally sound to take off/land on carriers
8. It has to be able to have VSTOL capability
9. It has to be cheap enough for large sales
10. It has to have more efficient maintenance performance
11. It must have a single powerful engine.
etc etc etc

In short it needs to be versatile enough to be in 3 different guises : A, B and C versions.
To make it user and maintenance friendly, they introduced ALIS which created more problems than ever. It actually compromised many partner nations’ secret flight information data. They have since introduced ODIN system. But that too has chinks in it. The notion of information transfer to and fro between plane and manufacturer is more than troublesome. But totally unacceptable.
An engine the diameter of f110 but about a meter longer, weighing 140kg less to develop 11000lbf more dry and wet thrust is very demanding. Hence the engine problems!

In a way, for us, it has been a blessing in disguise that we have been kicked out of this program. Otherwise we too would be struggling with all the shortcomings that the current operators are dealing with.
It is a shame that we are excluded from all the technical aspects of the plane’s upgrading work. But thanks to BAE Systems input we are still in touch with new developments. Thus it is imperative that we keep our cooperation active with the UK company.
Luckily having experienced the troubles and struggles first hand, BAE Systems will, hopefully, take necessary steps that the same doesn’t occur in TFX.
Also since TFX is the culmination of all good and bad experiences lived through F35s, and produced as such, and it is primarily an air dominance jet with secondary job as ground attack capability, we shouldn’t have as many problems.
After all TFX will be more like a slightly smaller and streamlined F22 than an F35.
 

Afif

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There is a saying in English:
Jack of all trades, master of none
The situation with F35 is exactly that.
Fantastic piece of technology. Marvellous specifications on paper regarding Stealth and Combat performance.
But when it comes to reality there are far too many chinks in the armour of this bird to be viable as a good dependable fighting machine.
It all stems from far too many requirements and expectations that are demanded from one plane and one airframe.
1. It has to be stealth
2. It has to carry lots of ammunition
3. It has to have spacious internal weapon bays
4. It’s sensor array and electronics has to be state of the art
5. It has to have a powerful Aesa radar
6. It has to have an electro optical sensor (IRST equivalent)
7. It has to be structurally sound to take off/land on carriers
8. It has to be able to have VSTOL capability
9. It has to be cheap enough for large sales
10. It has to have more efficient maintenance performance
11. It must have a single powerful engine.
etc etc etc

In short it needs to be versatile enough to be in 3 different guises : A, B and C versions.
To make it user and maintenance friendly, they introduced ALIS which created more problems than ever. It actually compromised many partner nations’ secret flight information data. They have since introduced ODIN system. But that too has chinks in it. The notion of information transfer to and fro between plane and manufacturer is more than troublesome. But totally unacceptable.
An engine the diameter of f110 but about a meter longer, weighing 140kg less to develop 11000lbf more dry and wet thrust is very demanding. Hence the engine problems!

In a way, for us, it has been a blessing in disguise that we have been kicked out of this program. Otherwise we too would be struggling with all the shortcomings that the current operators are dealing with.
It is a shame that we are excluded from all the technical aspects of the plane’s upgrading work. But thanks to BAE Systems input we are still in touch with new developments. Thus it is imperative that we keep our cooperation active with the UK company.
Luckily having experienced the troubles and struggles first hand, BAE Systems will, hopefully, take necessary steps that the same doesn’t occur in TFX.
Also since TFX is the culmination of all good and bad experiences lived through F35s, and produced as such, and it is primarily an air dominance jet with secondary job as ground attack capability, we shouldn’t have as many problems.
After all TFX will be more like a slightly smaller and streamlined F22 than an F35.
Brilliant post! I agree with most of the points. But i still think F35 is the second best operational 5th gen fighter in the world ( at the present time. ) and I think these problems are fixable and probably they will able to fix these in the future. but at incredibly higher cost than it was promised.
 
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Heartbang

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does anyone have a ballpark figure for the power output of F-35's radar?
 

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