TR Turkiye's F-35 Project and Discussions

[Oublious]

And we are to believe a military blogger that all these countries:

Gave away billions of € and their sovereignty to the US?
Except for just random bloggers, the only other post I found that mentions anything like it is this Quora post, which explains it and seems reasonable that passwords are required to start the aircraft.

If I wanted to start the engine on an F-35 fighter jet, what would I need? Does it use a key fob or have a push to start button like a car?

Answer (1 of 6): For a pilot starting up an F-35, they’ll first flick the battery switches on, which turns on their cockpit displays. Then they have to log in, like a password-protected computer - I don’t know the details of what information they enter, but it would be a username or ID, and then...

www.quora.com

so you have a fighter you need to login, what if you can not login because of IT problem ? This means when you loginc US can see you, good thing we are not a part anymore.

 

[Ryder]

When I buy a fcking laptop why does the person who sells it to me has his own password?

Everytime i want to use my laptop I have to call the person who sold it to me to unlock it. I bought this laptop and I fcking own it.

This is the logic of this plane.

As much as I love the F35 this is bullshit!!

 

[urban mine]

I saw this comment at the Turkish Air Force Forum yesterday and waited for a rebuttal. But there's no real argument about this. Actually, I'm also a non-expert who doesn't know much about data links, but it is the first time I have heard that the Air Force cannot control the F-35 without the Link-16 encryption key.


Not giving the LINK-16 encryption key means that even the U.S. military in the Korean Peninsula cannot properly use aircraft and PAC-3. How can they share information and receive commands without a data link?

And it doesn't mean that you can't turn on the F-35 engine without LINK-16. LINK-16 is not a backdoor...

But you know what? Even in Turkey, which is not on good terms with the U.S., they use LINK-16? Did you know that the Turkish Air Force is still receiving LINK-16 encryption keys at this moment in MIDS integrated with F-16 C/D, E-737 and GCI? The Turkish Air Force also gets a code for the IFF.
That way, there will be no disruption to our operations with NATO allies.

In Pakistan, which is very close to China, encryption keys are also distributed to MIDS integrated into F-16 and SAAB 340 AWACS.

It's not desirable to post this false news just because you don't have the F-35. You guys are half crazy every time you talk about the F-35. I understand to a certain extent...

 

[Gary]

This thread should be renamed "Bash the F-35 thread"

 

[Fuzuli NL]

I wonder if there was a limit to that (If true).
Like something similar to 30 years and the planes are really under your sole control.

 

[Afif]

I wonder if there was a limit to that (If true).
Like something similar to 30 years and the planes are really under your sole control.

but the problem is, after 30 years you cannot upgrade an F35 on your own. also i heard rumors that it has software expire date.

 

[Zafer]

I saw this comment at the Turkish Air Force Forum yesterday and waited for a rebuttal. But there's no real argument about this. Actually, I'm also a non-expert who doesn't know much about data links, but it is the first time I have heard that the Air Force cannot control the F-35 without the Link-16 encryption key.


Not giving the LINK-16 encryption key means that even the U.S. military in the Korean Peninsula cannot properly use aircraft and PAC-3. How can they share information and receive commands without a data link?

And it doesn't mean that you can't turn on the F-35 engine without LINK-16. LINK-16 is not a backdoor...
View attachment 51356
But you know what? Even in Turkey, which is not on good terms with the U.S., they use LINK-16? Did you know that the Turkish Air Force is still receiving LINK-16 encryption keys at this moment in MID integrated with F-16 C/D, E-737 and GCI? The Turkish Air Force also gets a code for the IFF.
That way, there will be no disruption to our operations with NATO allies.

In Pakistan, which is very close to China, encryption keys are also distributed to MIDs integrated into F-16 and SAAB 340 AWACS.

It's not desirable to post this false news just because you don't have the F-35. You guys are half crazy every time you talk about the F-35. I understand to a certain extent...

So the Korean pilots were complaining for nothing or they were not complaining at all?
Completely groundless false news?

 

[Cypro]

People here often forget the fact that F35 is the only true* stealth 5th generation fighter which can be sold to other countries (on sale), it has some confidential technologies and strategic technologies that must stay confidential as long as it can be sustained. That is why it can't fly in stealth mode without US approving it, it is a strictly controlled weapon. If you are going to buy this high tech computer, as a seller I can say you can use it but can't open the secrets of it, if you disassemble it, no more computer to you, it is an agreement with conditions, if you don't like, don't buy.

F35 is a very advanced and a hackable device, it should not be flown around enemy radars in stealth mode, its paint should not be reverse engineered, its software should not be breached otherwise it lost competitive advantage in real war. Manufacturer is giving you this high technology with conditions, The US rightfully keep these technologies under control until it has more advanced weapons and F35 becomes just a regular fighter.

Lets recap, F35 is a slow, not heavily armed, only "for sale" 5th generation jet whose only advantage is being stealth and it can engage from long distances, so why would I want this advantage to be lost? The US is right, so if you don't like, don't buy, go get SU35 or rafale.

 

[bisbis]

People here often forget the fact that F35 is the only true* stealth 5th generation fighter which can be sold to other countries (on sale), it has some confidential technologies and strategic technologies that must stay confidential as long as it can be sustained. That is why it can't fly in stealth mode without US approving it, it is a strictly controlled weapon. If you are going to buy this high tech computer, as a seller I can say you can use it but can't open the secrets of it, if you disassemble it, no more computer to you, it is an agreement with conditions, if you don't like, don't buy.

F35 is a very advanced and a hackable device, it should not be flown around enemy radars in stealth mode, its paint should not be reverse engineered, its software should not be breached otherwise it lost competitive advantage in real war. Manufacturer is giving you this high technology with conditions, The US rightfully keep these technologies under control until it has more advanced weapons and F35 becomes just a regular fighter.

Lets recap, F35 is a slow, not heavily armed, only "for sale" 5th generation jet whose only advantage is being stealth and it can engage from long distances, so why would I want this advantage to be lost? The US is right, so if you don't like, don't buy, go get SU35 or rafale.

First of all, the f35 is not as stealthy as you say. Especially against aesa radars in certain rf bands. In Syria, the Sam system with the Russian pesa radar fired a missile at the Israeli F35.

If a small NATO member country in Europe does not have a problem with the USA and it would not be inconvenient to buy the F35. But for a Muslim Türk country that claims to be in the Middle East like Türkiye, getting an F35 would be a headache.

 

[urban mine]

So the Korean pilots were complaining for nothing or they were not complaining at all?
Completely groundless false news?

What should our pilots complain about when the premise itself goes wrong in the first place? Ask Turkish pilots. Aren't we under U.S. control?
I can roughly guess what information Chinese news posted by referring to. Misunderstanding of Link-16 has once spread in Korea. Probably spread fake news in China.
The F-35 is a very state-of-the-art weapon and the United States requires high security to control it, but spreading misinformation about data links is impure.

 

[bisbis]

I saw this comment at the Turkish Air Force Forum yesterday and waited for a rebuttal. But there's no real argument about this. Actually, I'm also a non-expert who doesn't know much about data links, but it is the first time I have heard that the Air Force cannot control the F-35 without the Link-16 encryption key.


Not giving the LINK-16 encryption key means that even the U.S. military in the Korean Peninsula cannot properly use aircraft and PAC-3. How can they share information and receive commands without a data link?

And it doesn't mean that you can't turn on the F-35 engine without LINK-16. LINK-16 is not a backdoor...
View attachment 51356
But you know what? Even in Turkey, which is not on good terms with the U.S., they use LINK-16? Did you know that the Turkish Air Force is still receiving LINK-16 encryption keys at this moment in MIDS integrated with F-16 C/D, E-737 and GCI? The Turkish Air Force also gets a code for the IFF.
That way, there will be no disruption to our operations with NATO allies.

In Pakistan, which is very close to China, encryption keys are also distributed to MIDS integrated into F-16 and SAAB 340 AWACS.

It's not desirable to post this false news just because you don't have the F-35. You guys are half crazy every time you talk about the F-35. I understand to a certain extent...

If you search, you will see that the f35s in your country can be flown very limitedly due to various malfunctions.

If the f35 is such a good plane, why is your country spending billions of dollars to build another domestic plane? Likewise, Japan and European countries are also looking for different aircraft.

Not only for the link system, but within the F35 complete logistics system, it has to connect to Lockheed Martin, USA from the IP-based system and get approval for the flight.

Türkiye has no loss to regret for the f35 project. Our drones, guns, and various ammunition are ready. Our Kızılelma jet drone is about to fly. Our Aesa radar is ready.

But most of the countries that bought the f35 are in search of new ones.

 

[bisbis]

What should our pilots complain about when the premise itself goes wrong in the first place? Ask Turkish pilots. Aren't we under U.S. control?
I can roughly guess what information Chinese news posted by referring to. Misunderstanding of Link-16 has once spread in Korea. Probably spread fake news in China.
The F-35 is a very state-of-the-art weapon and the United States requires high security to control it, but spreading misinformation about data links is impure.

USA sells many advanced technology systems to 4 sides of the world. None of these systems need to be connected to the USA from the internet. The most featured aircraft, uavs, awacks aircraft, missiles, etc. Their technology is not stolen.

So why does the f35 have to be connected to usa when this is the case? I think there are 2 reasons for this.
1. Staying within the network structure for the automation feature of the f35 logistics system speeds up the work.

2. The USA wants to instantly control the plane it sells and the country it sells the plane to. USA wants to know instantly what it sees and perceives on the plane it sells.

Let's say Türkiye bought the F35. Now we will carry out an operation to fight terrorism in northern Syria.

Will the USA allow the use of the f35 in this operation? I don't think Usa will.
F35 can't get off the ground. That's the problem.

Or the planes took off, went and hit a terrorist target on the ground, an interesting post on social media, the DAS optical system image of the f35 plane that hit the target, below, "Türkiye hit civilians!" This social media message is writing!?

 

[I_Love_F16]

In Syria, the Sam system with the Russian pesa radar fired a missile at the Israeli F35

For simplicity, no matter the stealth of an aircraft, if you fly close enough to a radar you will be detected. Invisible aircrafts simply doesn’t exist.

 

[urban mine]

If you search, you will see that the f35s in your country can be flown very limitedly due to various malfunctions.

If the f35 is such a good plane, why is your country spending billions of dollars to build another domestic plane? Likewise, Japan and European countries are also looking for different aircraft.

Not only for the link system, but within the F35 complete logistics system, it has to connect to Lockheed Martin, USA from the IP-based system and get approval for the flight.

Türkiye has no loss to regret for the f35 project. Our drones, guns, and various ammunition are ready. Our Kızılelma jet drone is about to fly. Our Aesa radar is ready.

But most of the countries that bought the f35 are in search of new ones.

Haha, of course! For decades to come, major and minor accidents will await the F-35. But that's the way every plane has been through.

Perhaps the KF-21 that we made, the MMU that you will make, the GCAP that England, Japan, and Italy will make, and the FCAS that France and Germany will make will go through that path.

I don't know the situation in other countries. Maybe they are planning the future (2040-50).

But I know a certain amount of KF-21 in our country, so I will tell you why we made it. The KF-21 is Korea's first domestic medium-end fighter jet. (F-35 is high-end.) This is to replace KF-5 and F-4E. High-end fighter jets have already been purchased as F-35s and are being developed with the goal of medium-end fighter performance.
Do you think you can build an F-35 class fighter right away? Well, you guys are already doing that's...

Anyway, KF-21 is an experience to help develop 5th generation fighter jets and 6th generation fighter jets in the future. That's why we make KF-21.

I don't care that you don't regret buying the F-35. I don't care if Kızılelma flies or your own AESA is ready. What matters is your stupid knowledge quoting Chinese fake news about enslaving the other country with a data link encryption key. As I said above, ask your Turkish pilot. 'Why does our country use LINK-16?' 'Isn't it scary that evil America can control us? .....'

 

[bisbis]

For simplicity, no matter the stealth of an aircraft, if you fly close enough to a radar you will be detected. Invisible aircrafts simply doesn’t exist.

Of course, there is no complete invisibility. There is only reduced visibility.

Yes, there are Rcs technologies. But they can only lower the detection parameters of objects.

While the F35 aircraft was being developed, aesa radar technology was perhaps in the theory stage. Perhaps the F35 was not tested against aesa radar on its first flights. As same as passive radar system technologies.

But technology has progressed so fast in the world that Türkiye, China, Korea, Israel and many other countries have made aesa radar. In Aesa radars, the intensity, continuity, power, frequency, hit rate, and power of the signal processing processors of the RF signal falling on the target aircraft have increased a lot. All this has regressed his invisibility properties.

Again, the development and spread of technology in thermal sensors was very fast. Now every fighter aircraft and air defense systems has at least a 3rd generation thermal sensor.
The last time in Syria, the Russians published the photo of the f22 from 35 km, taken by the Su 35 aircraft.

 

[Rodeo]

We are very excited for our new highly-advanced platforms like KIZILELMA or TFX. However, these aircrafts are not tested or proven themselves yet. TFX, for instance, is better than F35. But only on paper. It will have go through excruciatingly painful testing processes and most of the problems surface at this stage. If we're up for the task, we'll solve the issues one by one until we're confident that we can put them in service. Until that time, F35 is superior. I'm very optimistic about our plane but there's no guarantee that it will be more reliable than F35.

 

[bisbis]

So the Korean pilots were complaining for nothing or they were not complaining at all?
Completely groundless false news?

Until now, we only knew that the F35 was tied to lockheed martin, USA for the Alis logistics system in ground maintanence operations.

Some European countries even objected to this situation. The USA state also had access to these Alis data. That's why a new software and infrastructure was installed.

Of course, the story is that the usa does not give up this opportunity to watch. This is the place operations side.

Maybe there were some restrictions on the piloting part of the f35, but the public did not know about it.

Yes, the news originates from China, its reliability is questionable, but in time everything will be understood.

 

[bisbis]

We are very excited for our newly highly-advanced platforms like KIZILELMA or TFX. However, these aircrafts are not tested or proven themselves yet. TFX, for instance, is better than F35. But only on paper. It will have go through excruciatingly painful testing processes and most of the problems surface at this stage. If we're up for the task, we'll solve the issues one by one until we're confident that we can put them in service. Until that time, F35 is superior. I'm very optimistic about our plane but there's no guarantee that it will be more reliable than F35.

As you said, we don't know the ability of Kızılelma and Mmu yet. It must be tried.

However, the developers of the aircraft more or less know what their aircraft can do, what its capabilities will be.

Especially for the Kızılelma dron, Selçuk Bayraktar's sentence "When suitable conditions occur, the Kızılelma can hit the f35" is promising. Again, Tusaş general manager Temel Kotil's words about the 2nd generation Mmu are also promising.

 

[urban mine]

USA sells many advanced technology systems to 4 sides of the world. None of these systems need to be connected to the USA from the internet. The most featured aircraft, uavs, awacks aircraft, missiles, etc. Their technology is not stolen.

So why does the f35 have to be connected to usa when this is the case? I think there are 2 reasons for this.
1. Staying within the network structure for the automation feature of the f35 logistics system speeds up the work.

2. The USA wants to instantly control the plane it sells and the country it sells the plane to. USA wants to know instantly what it sees and perceives on the plane it sells.

Let's say Türkiye bought the F35. Now we will carry out an operation to fight terrorism in northern Syria.

Will the USA allow the use of the f35 in this operation? I don't think Usa will.
F35 can't get off the ground. That's the problem.

Or the planes took off, went and hit a terrorist target on the ground, an interesting post on social media, the DAS optical system image of the f35 plane that hit the target, below, "Türkiye hit civilians!" This social media message is writing!?

What makes you think the F-35 has a "backdoor"? There's no hard evidence about it, only conspiracy theory... As you say, aren't you afraid of stopping the supply of components to the F-16 because of the upcoming Syrian and Iraqi operations? What about the parts supply disruption to the E-737? Why the hell are they using American weapons? Why don't you know that stopping parts and diplomatic pressure are more effective than installing large-capacity software such as backdoor?

 

[Afif]

Of course, there is no complete invisibility. There is only reduced visibility.

Yes, there are Rcs technologies. But they can only lower the detection parameters of objects.

While the F35 aircraft was being developed, aesa radar technology was perhaps in the theory stage. Perhaps the F35 was not tested against aesa radar on its first flights. As same as passive radar system technologies.

But technology has progressed so fast in the world that Türkiye, China, Korea, Israel and many other countries have made aesa radar. In Aesa radars, the intensity, continuity, power, frequency, hit rate, and power of the signal processing processors of the RF signal falling on the target aircraft have increased a lot. All this has regressed his invisibility properties.

Again, the development and spread of technology in thermal sensors was very fast. Now every fighter aircraft and air defense systems has at least a 3rd generation thermal sensor.
The last time in Syria, the Russians published the photo of the f22 from 35 km, taken by the Su 35 aircraft.

First airborne AESA FCR entered service in 1995 and first f35 entered service in 2015.

Besides, aircraft RCS has nothing to with AESA or PESA but has to do with radar's band.