TR Turkiye's F-35 Project and Discussions

[Anmdt]

Does the F-35B has its own production line? If so, Türkiye should start talks asap. TCG ANADOLU is waiting.

They are speaking for F-35A so far, man F-35B or C is even farther than dreamlands (unless you have some magic mushroom like Alice do).

But kudos to Americans for such a politic maneuver, selling F-35 to Greece and placing a pressure on TurAF for possibility of loosing air dominance on the western borders, force TR to transfer S-400 elsewhere and hint 'you may get F-35s under certain conditions', sell Patriots in place of them along with F-35.

It is always logical to sell high-tech assets that rely on some network 'information' and continuous planned maintenance and spares, to a country which you may place diplomatic or financial pressure through side channels and lock them in a cage of which you know the limits of the delivered weapon systems.

And US has officially confirmed that F-35's capabilities highly rely on processing power that can be limited on basis of who operates them (or even, depending on the conditions). And they can likely do it for maintenance.

It is always in favor of US to sell F-35 and Patriots to TR, but despite of this, i am in favor of getting these assets for sake of learning and practising 5th gen and NEW capabilities. Man there is no way we will master those within next decade on our own, looking into 2040s safely for a sensor fusion and NEW capability at such level.

 

[Sanchez]

Elaborate please. Do you have proof? Or is it only your personal assumption?

For one, Turkey never officially asked for F-35Bs.

 

[dBSPL]

The name Victoria Nuland should be underlined first. It is important to know who this woman, her husband, and her family are. They are probably the most dangerous people in the US foreign service, and probably the mentors of all the things that have caused Turkiye so much trouble... When addressing the Turkish public, she chooses her words wisely and makes public statements as if the S-400 is the only problem. She talks about lifting CAATSA and returning to F-35 talks if the demands are met. But our social media is making it sound like the F-35s will arrive the moment we give the S-400s to Ukraine.

 

[dBSPL]

Unless there is a full return to the program, including industrial participation, and without negotiations on issues such as the PKK-YPG, the arming of Greece, I am not sure what it would mean to dispose of the S400s 'the way the US wants' and start F-35 talks with uncertainty.

Or, if the issue is to be isolated to the S-400/F-35, the Turkish side should decide how to dispose of the S400, and it should involve the immediate delivery of 6 jets, which should be in our possession, and the immediate transfer of another 14/20 jets from the US inventory. In other words, like a hostage swap, everything should be settled on the bridge and the problem should not be prolonged.

 

[Sanchez]

TCG ANADOLU was accordingly built to be able to operate F-35B's.

It wasn't. Just like Juan Carlos 1, Anadolu also needs to be modified to handle F-35B operations.

 

[Iskander]

Unless there is a full return to the program, including industrial participation, and without negotiations on issues such as the PKK-YPG, the arming of Greece, I am not sure what it would mean to dispose of the S400s 'the way the US wants' and start F-35 talks with uncertainty.

Or, if the issue is to be isolated to the S-400/F-35, the Turkish side should decide how to dispose of the S400, and it should involve the immediate delivery of 6 jets, which should be in our possession, and the immediate transfer of another 14/20 jets from the US inventory. In other words, like a hostage swap, everything should be settled on the bridge and the problem should not be prolonged.

The fact is that the United States is doing worse than ever in the Middle East. So they thought hard. They are afraid that they may lose Turkey along with the entire Middle East! This is what Madame Nuland was uncomfortable talking about! Probably, the moment when Türkiye begins to set its own conditions has already arrived. So to speak – the Moment of Truth!

 

[Anmdt]

And?
TCG ANADOLU was accordingly built to be able to operate F-35B's.
Besides your answer is not a answer to this claim

Not technically but politically, F-35B was never part of Turkish participation and there has not been an official request for acquisition of them, yet TCG Anadolu was made with the thought. That has always boggled my mind as if some politicians long had ideas of abandoning F-35 programme thus never made steps for B variant.
For F-35C that has never been considered ever for once. Any possibilities of US ever selling those?
Both B and C variants directly challenges US - Israel interests in the greater region, so giving a little chance (personally) for these but i would fancy B variant.

 

[dBSPL]

The fact is that the United States is doing worse than ever in the Middle East. So they thought hard. They are afraid that they may lose Turkey along with the entire Middle East! This is what Madame Nuland was uncomfortable talking about! Probably, the moment when Türkiye begins to set its own conditions has already arrived. So to speak – the Moment of Truth!

If the US had held the balance of power as it did 20 years ago, it probably would have struck Tehran last morning. Not only is the US engaged in a bitter internal struggle over domestic political dynamics, but this struggle coincides with a period in which the US is losing control and drifting in the Middle East. My general view was that this situation could be used, not least to prolong the Sweden-NATO process until the US elections. I don't want to be a fortune teller, optimistically there are those who say that the US is realizing its mistakes, but I think there are still many more counter arguments that don't warrant such optimism.

 

[Ryder]

If the US had held the balance of power as it did 20 years ago, it probably would have struck Tehran last morning. Not only is the US engaged in a bitter internal struggle over domestic political dynamics, but this struggle coincides with a period in which the US is losing control and drifting in the Middle East. My general view was that this situation could be used, not least to prolong the Sweden-NATO process until the US elections. I don't want to be a fortune teller, optimistically there are those who say that the US is realizing its mistakes, but I think there are still many more counter arguments that don't warrant such optimism.

Usa played a role in Iran growing either directly or indirectly.

They supported the Shah Regime and took out Mossadegh. Due to this instability allowed Khomeini to come to power.

Then came the Iran-Iraq war with the Iran contra affair. Usa and Israel saved Irans skin.

After 911, USA invaded Afghanistan with Iran's help. Iran also supported the US Invasion of Iraq.

In the end all this instability helped Iran grow its footprint. Obama administration also turned a blind eye to Iran growing in Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen and Syria.

USA also ignores many PKK highers up who use Iran as a base.

 

[dBSPL]

Personally, if we are talking about buying F-35s at an indefinite date without full normalization, including the pkk ypg issue and F-35 industry involvement, I would prefer to buy EF backed by additional agreements to secure the engine development schedule for KAAN. I have the feeling that they want us to put all our eggs in the same basket, 'again'.

 

[Sanchez]

Personally, if we are talking about buying F-35s at an indefinite date without full normalization, including the pkk ypg issue and F-35 industry involvement, I would prefer to buy EF backed by additional agreements to secure the engine development schedule for KAAN. I have the feeling that they want us to put all our eggs in the same basket, 'again'.

Yup. Funny thing is, Turkey even with its current economy can handle Viper, Özgür, F-35, EF2000 and Kaan together. And if the goal is to come to top, and survive the coming decades, we probably will need to. Both the firepower, and the relationships these purchases create.

 

[Fairon]

At this point we should try to get some Seahawks as well. We could try to include them in the T70 deal extension.

 

[uçuyorum]

Thats the mentality I'm afraid of. The more stuff we buy from US the fewer orders for local companies and less urgency to finish ours, the longer it will take to become independent. We do need platforms but If we can make it past next 5 years or so we will really start seeing things come together.

Shouldn't go well we got f16 lets buy some f35 too and some patriot, some seahawk then you get hooked on more stuff you could search different solutions to boost our industry.

 

[Heartbang]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1752261374003089825

US Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland {CNN Turk}

- Frankly, if we can resolve this S-400 issue, which we want to do, the US will be pleased to welcome Turkey back into the F-35 family.

- But first we must solve this other issue, and while solving it we must also ensure that Turkey has a strong air defense

Dang, Mete Yarar got it right

 

[Sanchez]

Thats the mentality I'm afraid of. The more stuff we buy from US the fewer orders for local companies and less urgency to finish ours, the longer it will take to become independent. We do need platforms but If we can make it past next 5 years or so we will really start seeing things come together.

Shouldn't go well we got f16 lets buy some f35 too and some patriot, some seahawk then you get hooked on more stuff you could search different solutions to boost our industry.

Yup. But there's some issues here as well. Mainly, highly unrealistic project schedules with even with many subparts still depending on US and US allies.

 

[dBSPL]

Yup. Funny thing is, Turkey even with its current economy can handle Viper, Özgür, F-35, EF2000 and Kaan together. And if the goal is to come to top, and survive the coming decades, we probably will need to. Both the firepower, and the relationships these purchases create.

Even during the heaviest embargo period in history, we have an air force that was able to maintain Delta Daggers, which were developed entirely to intercept Soviet nuclear bombers, with zero spare parts. In terms of sustainment, they were probably the F-35s of the period.

Now, our economy and industrial infrastructure are incomparably advanced. However, there is a very similar point with that period; both the imminent threats and the risk of our country directly facing a war are at the highest level. In such situations, the concern for comfort need to takes a back, because there is a concern for security.

It is necessary to maintain a state of mobilization to rapidly bring every aviation project that is ready for production or has been concretized to a certain extent into mass production in the country. On the other hand, I am in favor of buying whatever we can from abroad, I wrote a long post about this last week, but I later withdrew the post, thinking that it would not be appropriate to discuss some of the issues I touched upon between the lines in an open forum. As a result, there is also the possibility of instrumentalizing foreign procurement to shape foreign policy. But this requires a decisive and upright stance.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

Dang, Mete Yarar got it right

Can you give some context please?

 

[Heartbang]

Can you give some context please?

TBH, it hasn't come to "that" level yet, but one could argue they're halfway there.

 

[dBSPL]

Let me play devil's advocate: Putin will announce at his press conference in Turkiye (Putin-RTE leaders summit in February) that they are ready for the delivery of a new S-400 battery, and he will say a few vague things that could lead to speculation about the possible sale of the Izdeliye 30.

 

[Ryder]

Lots of good points for the F35 acquisition while many who are against it also shared really good points.

I like this kind of debate. You wont get this with F35 fanboys who worship this plane like its God and anti F35 fanboys who watch Pierre Sprey then called themselves experts.