TR Turkiye's F-35 Project and Discussions

[Heartbang]

His words are important not because he can be taken seriously but because he's a mouthpiece and if he's saying stuff opposite of what he and his ilk have been saying for 4 years, it's a sign he's been cajoled towards that statement. This is more a declaration of our intent than the Americans.

Wholeheartedly agree. However, the way he says it made me think that we are preparing to return to that program without getting our kit.
Basically coming back as a workmule. That's not cool, and its tantamount to treason, IMO.

If they are willing to hand over three Anadolu's worth of F-35B's with F-16 Özgür levels of control on the hardware and software (F-35T, basically.) along with full tech transfer of GE's XA100 for the KAAN, then I'm game. That's our worth, IMO.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Wholeheartedly agree. However, the way he says it made me think that we are preparing to return to that program without getting our kit.
Basically coming back as a workmule. That's not cool, and its tantamount to treason, IMO.

If they are willing to hand over three Anadolu's worth of F-35B's with F-16 Özgür levels of control on the hardware and software (F-35T, basically.) along with full tech transfer of GE's XA100 for the KAAN, then I'm game. That's our worth, IMO.

Its also important to understand it from the american side, they use their weapons and all the associated business deals as a form of influence over Turkey. They can't afford to cut us off completely because then its harder for them to pursue greater middle east policy in the region. Its easier for them to take hostile positions against us in the region if they have other deals with us. But if they had no deals or connections with us, its likely we would oppose their transgressions more aggressively.

Turkey has to balance it correctly, enough connection to benefit but not so much that they can screw us when we do something they don't like in our region. Then to leverage these relationships you need to hedge them across the board with other nations and other partnerships.

 

[AzeriTank]

I would kindly everyone to focus Mete Yarar and his words around 158th seconds. He clearly says that F35 project provided tech transfer to Turkey. I guess it played a very crucial role in the development of KAAN and I wholeheartedly want to return the project. It will not bring some money but also recent advances in the field of defense industry.

I started to believe that we must join all west consortiums in the fields that we are not developed enough such as energy and electronic.

Nobody takes this guy serious, i even hate him, one day he might even be part of Feto, typical artist and clown.. any video i see him, i swear god, i dont even watch it..

 

[Shtr]

The point is that he is representing clearly government and while he was trying to convince people about the F35 project, I believe he went further and expressed about that part related to tech and know-how transfer.

This project by itself is important for our industry. I guess we can take more parts in future in this process and increasing our know from as much as possible can be a really good thing.

This project turned into low hanging fruit for us now and we definitely have to get it. Even Greece accepted that we will eventually return to project and even we will get our aircrafts soon.

 

[blackjack]

I have no idea if the hurjet project was started before Turkiye had radar chambers, but they might as well start making designs of their own stealth single engine aircraft and maybe treat the Hurjet like how Russia treats the Mig-35.

F-35
-80 million dollars.
-sources saying flights cost 36,000-45,000 dollars.
-self ejected a pilot, self-ejected another pilot because of bug in program and I shit you not after the south korean F-35 hit a bird they had to retire the aircraft which originally cost them 85 million dollars but the repairs would have cost over 100 million dollars
-4 internal air to air missile carry with a rack option which has yet to be implemented with a 6 air to air missile carry option.

Su-75
-25-35 million dollars per aircraft as proposal
-flight costs are estimated 6-7 times less than F-35
-electronics are configurable for you if you want to put your own radar or infrared systems.
-5 internal air to air missiles.
-https://new.fips.ru/registers-doc-view/fips_servlet?DB=RUPAT&DocNumber=2807558&TypeFile=html patent allows you to change the cockpit however you like from one seat, 2 seat or UAV mode without having to purchase a whole new platform.
-3000km max range internal fuel, UAV option for cockpit would reduce weight and significantly increase the range passed 3000km.

There are benefits between going to a 3 star Michelin restaurant or making your own food. Turkiye should make their own single engine stealth aircraft and decide if they will make the engines for it or purchase it elsewhere.

 

[Huelague]

Actually delusional to think that US has even a single reason to include Turkiye in F-35 supply chain now.

1.For a cheaper unit price. 2.To slow down MMU process. 3.To accelerate mass production. 4. To animate Turkey to buy some. 5. For legal reason..

 

[TheInsider]

Actually delusional to think that US has even a single reason to include Turkiye in F-35 supply chain now.

How many mid-sections did Germany deliver since Germany replaced Turkiye for the F-35 project?

 

[UkroTurk]

It is best time to get rid off S400 for money. They need more air defense, we could re-export for Natural gas dept. Then welcome F-35.

Russia will have to sacrifice air bases and ports to protect its refineries, -

Russia could relocate its air defense forces to oil plants, which would weaken the defenses of air bases, ports, headquarters and other military installations, making them easier targets.

Ukraine Has 15 Kinds Of Strike Drone for Hitting Russia’s Oil Industry

In a year of raids targeting a dozen refineries and depots in western Russia, the Ukrainian intelligence directorate has reduced Russia’s refinery capacity by 12 percent.

www.forbes.com

View attachment 66829

@Nilgiri would you like to buy a ready system?

Russia to deliver remaining 2 S 400 air defence missiles to India by Q3 of 2026: Sources - BusinessToday

Russia was supposed to deliver five squadrons by early 2024 but the supplies were delayed due to the ongoing Russia-Ukraine war.

www.businesstoday.in

 

[Zafer]

The cost of investment we made in our F35 involvement is not reason enough to keep attached to it. It is a losing deal for anyone but the US and Israel. Türkiye's only path forward is 100% self reliance. It will only be 2-3 more years before we see the fruits of our efforts in every field. We should take advantage of a lack of supply of F35 and make our presence in the 5th generation fighter realm by making a quick progress with Kaan and everything it depends on.

 

[Sanchez]

Taking a quick glance at potential customers for F-35 and Kaan, I think there's not one country that can buy the F-35 in the current geopolitical climate but would choose Kaan instead of buying F-35. Together, maybe, instead of, nope.

 

[uçuyorum]

Taking a quick glance at potential customers for F-35 and Kaan, I think there's not one country that can buy the F-35 in the current geopolitical climate but would choose Kaan instead of buying F-35. Together, maybe, instead of, nope.

Saudi Arabia? They were almost going to get F35, I'm sure they can get a really good deal from us, because we act desperate at negotiations.

 

[Zafer]

Taking a quick glance at potential customers for F-35 and Kaan, I think there's not one country that can buy the F-35 in the current geopolitical climate but would choose Kaan instead of buying F-35. Together, maybe, instead of, nope.

F35 customers have to be US allies and the US will not let its allies buy other stuff but those who do not have to rely solely on the US will buy Kaan if they can.

 

[Sanchez]

Saudi Arabia? They were almost going to get F35, I'm sure they can get a really good deal from us, because we act desperate at negotiations.

F-35 for Saudi and UAE was always iffy at best and required a huge leap of faith from Trump, with every other part of the state apparatus being against it. Even if Trump comes back next year, I think that ships has long sailed. I do think Saudi can be a customer for Kaan as well. Hopefully not UAE tho.

F35 customers have to be US allies and the US will not let its allies buy other stuff but those who do not have to rely solely on the US will buy Kaan if they can.

Plenty of US allies use French, Korean, German, and even Turkish arms. None of these countries solely rely on US. My point is, there's not a market that will open up for Kaan with F-35 deliveries for block 4 being delayed.

 

[Zafer]

F-35 for Saudi and UAE was always iffy at best and required a huge leap of faith from Trump, with every other part of the state apparatus being against it. Even if Trump comes back next year, I think that ships has long sailed. I do think Saudi can be a customer for Kaan as well. Hopefully not UAE tho.


Plenty of US allies use French, Korean, German, and even Turkish arms. None of these countries solely rely on US. My point is, there's not a market that will open up for Kaan with F-35 deliveries for block 4 being delayed.

That's for small arms, for critical systems like fighters and engines they go to the US.

 

[Zafer]

My point is, there's not a market that will open up for Kaan with F-35 deliveries for block 4 being delayed.

You never know where F35 will be sold next, if we can sell to potential F35 countries like UAE and other gulf countries were that is a grab.

 

[UkroTurk]

KSA likes to diversify suppliers so they won't hesitate purchase two different fighters from several countries. İndeel the strategy is logical but not logistical. Moreover they have money.


İf we turn back F-35 program, how many fighters will we have to buy?

Flying with just one squadron of F-35 would give Turkish defense industry and air force unprecedented experience.

 

[Iskander]

The cost of investment we made in our F35 involvement is not reason enough to keep attached to it. It is a losing deal for anyone but the US and Israel. Türkiye's only path forward is 100% self reliance. It will only be 2-3 more years before we see the fruits of our efforts in every field. We should take advantage of a lack of supply of F35 and make our presence in the 5th generation fighter realm by making a quick progress with Kaan and everything it depends on.

It seems to me that Türkiye was a little hasty with the acquisition of the S400. By the time the launchers of these air defense systems were unloaded in Mürted (July 2019), Turkish pilots in America were already flying the F35 with the corresponding emblem. Couldn't the acquisition of the Russian system have been delayed until the first F35s were transported to Turkey? Imagine: the first F35s arrive, and the next day...
If America began to be indignant and demand the return of these planes (by what right?), in response, Turkish specialists could dismantle them down to the last screw. I'm sure they would find a lot of interesting things that would be needed in the production of TF-X.

 

[Zafer]

It seems to me that Türkiye was a little hasty with the acquisition of the S400. By the time the launchers of these air defense systems were unloaded in Mürted (July 2019), Turkish pilots in America were already flying the F35 with the corresponding emblem. Couldn't the acquisition of the Russian system have been delayed until the first F35s were transported to Turkey? Imagine: the first F35s arrive, and the next day...
If America began to be indignant and demand the return of these planes (by what right?), in response, Turkish specialists could dismantle them down to the last screw. I'm sure they would find a lot of interesting things that would be needed in the production of TF-X.

Not really.

We had already produced the central section composite for the F35 so we had nothing to learn for composites. AFAIK a Turkish company made the display of the F35 for them, so nothing in there either. I would say we were better off not even looking at the plane. The timing of the S400 acquisition was right as we did not want the F35 in our territory. It is totally submission to American wishes to be in the F35 project so No thanks to F35. Obviously we can make a better plane than the F35 and we can actually se that we are making it. We want to be self reliant in our defense sector as we want to protect our interests and interests of our friends in the world and you can't do it when you raise your hands and surrender to America who is the only nation that can threaten Türkiye.

 

[Sanchez]

The timing of the S400 acquisition was right as we did not want the F35 in our territory.

Untrue.

People genuinely believe in the thought experiment that we did all that, had ourselves removed from the program and got sanctioned under CAATSA because we actually "DIDN'T" want F-35s. This is dumb. There were other ways to remove ourselves from the program, like I don't know, changing our future planning and saying we no longer needed F-35s in our future vision.

Anyone that says Turkey willingly did all this because we DIDN'T want F-35s is just kidding themselves. It was a bluff that failed horribly, which ended us up with a Kaan we are still dependent on US for its engines, 2 batteries of S-400s we haven't used once in any theaters where they could be needed and no F-35s.

 

[Zafer]

Untrue.

People genuinely believe in the thought experiment that we did all that, had ourselves removed from the program and got sanctioned under CAATSA because we actually "DIDN'T" want F-35s. This is dumb. There were other ways to remove ourselves from the program, like I don't know, changing our future planning and saying we no longer needed F-35s in our future vision.

Anyone that says Turkey willingly did all this because we DIDN'T want F-35s is just kidding themselves.

Türkiye is not one solid body. If you will remember there was even a parallel state. No one who has the vision to be a self reliant pole in a multi-polar world will buy into a project like the F35. Yes, the military with all the influences on it and lacking a vision for independence may have approached the F35 project but that is not a firm stance with a solid basis. It was as early as 2004 when self reliance in defense sector was determined but the defense bureaucracy with all their NATO submission background did not adapt well to the new paradigm. But when the time came to decide whether to step in the trap or stay out the right decision was made. It does not take a genius to see that the US will object buying the S400 and was well within possibility that they will react without considering Türkiye's unprecedented stronger position.