TR Turkiye's F-35 Project and Discussions

[Sanchez]

That would only look suspicious and we already know that it is no different from an iphone for being insidious.

They could just not spend millions on donations to US politicians to boot Turkey out of JSF; but they did that.

There's nothing suspicious about anything. Israel worked for more than 5 years actively to make sure Turkey didn't get F-35s and it is still working actively to keep the laws that enabled this to stay on line. And then we have Bibi and even Greek PM on live TV saying "Turkey not being able to get F-35s is actually great for us".

Only Turkey's rivals and some small onset of Turks support Turkey NOT getting F-35s. It's comical.

 

[Ryder]

That would only look suspicious and we already know that it is no different from an iphone for being insidious.

Everybody wants a Ferrari you know it.

Same with the F35 everybody wants it even if they deny it.

 

[Sanchez]

Barrack's latest to Bloomberg; can be read as an update on the Turkish F-35s

"They were part of the F-35 program, they have four F-35s in hangars in California, and Turkey was a major part of the airframe production."

First time hearing 4 F-35s instead of 6. Also dispels the claims that there are no aircraft in the hangars.

 

[Zafer]

F35 is a threat to Türkiye, it can spy on Turkish systems and report to hostile parties.

 

[Sanchez]

Meanwhile Israel is working overtime to put a wrench in the diplomacy.

"Netanyahu held a meeting this month with Frank St. John, COO of Lockheed Martin. Subject: Block Saudi Arabia & Turkey from obtaining F-35 jets.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1999484890526679258

Netanyahu reluctant to challenge Trump over F-35 sales to Saudi Arabia and Türkiye - Türkiye Today

Netanyahu plans to raise concerns about potential US sales of F-35 fighter jets to Saudi Arabia and Türkiye during his Dec. 29 meeting with Trump

www.turkiyetoday.com

 

[IC3M@N FX]

F35 is a threat to Türkiye, it can spy on Turkish systems and report to hostile parties.

Turkey needs the F-35 fighter jets, for better or worse.
It is also about being able to carry US nuclear weapons in a conflict with Russia/China, however unlikely that may be. The F-16 will reach EoL by 2035+ at the latest; the aircraft is technologically obsolete, and there is no longer any official upgrade path. The aircraft is being phased out, and even the US only wants to use the F-16 for home defence or as a zombie drone.
In addition, Turkey wants to use the Eurofighter and F-35 as reference platforms for its further development of future KAAN blocks for comparison. The Israelis know this and are terrified that Turkey will be able to produce TAI KAAN as mature GEN 5.5+ fighter aircraft from 2034+ that would be completely ITAR-free.

 

[Zafer]

S400 is already protecting Türkiye from the lethal F35; if it weren't for the S400 F35 could step in Türkiye and cause some damage that will not be immediately detectable as it is a latent damage that we will suffer from in the future. Russia has no interest waging a war with Türkiye and China is a country far far away. If we need to protect ourselves from a nuclear country we will do it ourselves and not rely on someone else. F35 can only serve the purpose of a connector putting Türkiye in the same cohort as the US otherwise we can neither study the F35 to learn from it nor can we use if for any beneficial purpose to us. And Netanyahu is helping a lot too, I will give him that.

As much as F35 is an F word never to be said by us it should not be said by Saudi Arabia either as we want them to say Kaan, again Netanyahu to the rescue.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

When viewed in this light, it even has a tangible advantage: the platform can participate in NATO operations without any major concerns and land in friendly NATO countries without having to constantly worry about industrial espionage. For the Turkish armed forces, 30–40 aircraft should be perfectly adequate as a core fleet.

The KAAN will not "share" any sensitive mission or sensor data with the F-35 anyway. And even if something accidentally leaks in the wrong direction via Link 16/22, it is very likely that technical protective measures will be put in place: a kind of kill/safe mode, hard data filters at the protocol and hardware level – and, in case of doubt, a switch to national data links such as T-Link.

At the same time, even without "data sharing", an F-35 can be evaluated very thoroughly – not only via radar and EM profiles, but also via IR signatures, metadata from sensor images and observable behaviour in the mission profile. These findings can then be consistently reflected in the development of one's own guided missiles – whether AAM or anti-aircraft missiles, including modern (hybrid) seeker heads and anti-ECCM logic.

Israel may be able to adapt a lot in terms of EW/ECM and software parameters – but the basic geometry and thus the physical radar and IR signature of a platform cannot simply be "configured away". This is precisely where the leverage lies: silhouette, signature and pattern remain measurable in the end.

 

[Afif]

S400 is already protecting Türkiye from the lethal F35; if it weren't for the S400 F35 could step in Türkiye

I don't think you yourself believe this.

 

[Zafer]

I don't think you yourself believe this.

You are right, F35 couldn't step in Türkiye even if it weren't for the S400, there are more conditions for it than just the S400.

There are many downsides of the F35 that even close allies have already realized. And the threats are multiplied for Türkiye as Türkiye is one of the very few countries in the world that can care for its own interests above all others' and there is some real conflict of interests in the region. F35 has everything on it that can justify any conspiracy theory. Like a smart machine that can go against you any moment, its technology allows this.

 

[uçuyorum]

F35 sensors collect so much data, I'd be careful flying them anywhere within our borders. They could use a specific non critical base location of their own and have their dedicated flight paths for not collecting data about rest of our systems honestly. That's one of the issues with that platform. The possibility of us actually using nukes with F35, even if russia actually attacked us with nukes, is close to 0. We would be sacrificed if it came to that. US has no intention if covering for us

 

[Quasar]

Even just to see and study the performances of F35, KAAN, KIZILELMA, ANKA-3 and our radars is a good enough reason for me to have a small number of friendly F35s instead of and before the hostile ones

 

[Zafer]

just to see the performances of KAAN, KIZILELMA, ANKA-3 and our radars is a good enough reason for me to have a small number of friendly F35 instead of hostile ones

You can see Kaan's performance from another Kaan, F35 having a look at Turkish systems is not acceptable.

 

[Lool]

Meanwhile Israel is working overtime to put a wrench in the diplomacy.

"Netanyahu held a meeting this month with Frank St. John, COO of Lockheed Martin. Subject: Block Saudi Arabia & Turkey from obtaining F-35 jets.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1999484890526679258

Netanyahu reluctant to challenge Trump over F-35 sales to Saudi Arabia and Türkiye - Türkiye Today

Netanyahu plans to raise concerns about potential US sales of F-35 fighter jets to Saudi Arabia and Türkiye during his Dec. 29 meeting with Trump

www.turkiyetoday.com

I dont think Natenyahu will succeed in this endeavour due to the sole fact that F35's production costs and potential sales are abysmal!!

Nearly all Western countries have reduced their future orders of F35 fighter jets and nations like Spain have just bailed out from purchasing the jet citing the astronomical purchase and operating costs.
There are even unverified reports that even South Korea is planning to reduce its future orders for the F35 jets as most jets in Korea's inventory are mostly idle to avoid its soaring operational costs
Moreover, future upgraded variants of the F35 have been postponed by Lockheed Martin due to soaring costs as well

The US needs Turkey and Saudi Arabia to increase its sales of the jet and involve the Turks in its production to reduce its production costs

That is why I called it a failed project. The F35 was supposed to be the F16's successor; but it turned out to be a financial black hole.

 

[mohammadtd]

I dont think Natenyahu will succeed in this endeavour due to the sole fact that F35's production costs and potential sales are abysmal!!

Nearly all Western countries have reduced their future orders of F35 fighter jets and nations like Spain have just bailed out from purchasing the jet citing the astronomical purchase and operating costs.
There are even unverified reports that even South Korea is planning to reduce its future orders for the F35 jets as most jets in Korea's inventory are mostly idle to avoid its soaring operational costs
Moreover, future upgraded variants of the F35 have been postponed by Lockheed Martin due to soaring costs as well

The US needs Turkey and Saudi Arabia to increase its sales of the jet and involve the Turks in its production to reduce its production costs

That is why I called it a failed project. The F35 was supposed to be the F16's successor; but it turned out to be a financial black hole.

How does Turkey buying F35 will help?

 

[Afif]

I dont think Natenyahu will succeed in this endeavour due to the sole fact that F35's production costs and potential sales are abysmal!!

Nearly all Western countries have reduced their future orders of F35 fighter jets and nations like Spain have just bailed out from purchasing the jet citing the astronomical purchase and operating costs.
There are even unverified reports that even South Korea is planning to reduce its future orders for the F35 jets as most jets in Korea's inventory are mostly idle to avoid its soaring operational costs
Moreover, future upgraded variants of the F35 have been postponed by Lockheed Martin due to soaring costs as well

The US needs Turkey and Saudi Arabia to increase its sales of the jet and involve the Turks in its production to reduce its production costs

That is why I called it a failed project. The F35 was supposed to be the F16's successor; but it turned out to be a financial black hole.

That is the most illogical take I have heard in while.

US military alone buying more than 1500 F35 in three configurations. That is itself enough to keep the program ongoing and economically viable even if there is no international customers.

But in reality Hundreds of F35 has been sold to international partners already. It is already a great export success.

 

[Zafer]

That is the most illogical take I have heard in while.

US military alone buying more than 1500 F35 in three configurations. That is itself enough to keep the program ongoing and economically viable even if there is no international customers.

But in reality Hundreds of F35 has been sold to international partners already. It is already a great export success.

Donald Trump said he doesn't like single engine planes.

 

[Sanchez]

The F-16 will reach EoL by 2035+ at the latest; the aircraft is technologically obsolete, and there is no longer any official upgrade path. The aircraft is being phased out, and even the US only wants to use the F-16 for home defence or as a zombie drone.

This is not correct. F-16V has all the avionic bells and whistles of a modern 4.5 gen fighter. It's still short of breath and is small
but it is very potent.

US is planning to use its 600 odd F-16s modernized under the PoBIT well into 2040s. US F-16s today are deployed to Japan, Korea, Middle East as well as Europe. F-16 is NOT being phased out anytime soon aside from single type users like Denmark, Belgium, Norway etc, who are all phasing it out with F-35s.

S400 is already protecting Türkiye from the lethal F35; if it weren't for the S400 F35 could step in Türkiye and cause some damage

You're basically trolling at this point man. Make up your minds, if F-35 a trojan horse, a failed fighter US is trying to offload on everybody it can find or a wonder weapon? Noone is forcing F-35s on anyone. US is literally not doing anything to countries that do not want to buy F-35s other than simple pushing.

Nearly all Western countries have reduced their future orders of F35 fighter jets and nations like Spain have just bailed out from purchasing the jet citing the astronomical purchase and operating costs.

Only F-35 user that will soon reduce its future order is Switzerland, because US didn't accept their demand for a fixed price contract. Spain never ordered F-35s.

There are even unverified reports that even South Korea is planning to reduce its future orders for the F35 jets as most jets in Korea's inventory are mostly idle to avoid its soaring operational costs

From expected 65 to 60. 40 are delivered with next 20 to be delivered from 2027. And Korea is a country that operates F-16s, F-15s, light fighters and now its own next generation low observable fighter.

Moreover, future upgraded variants of the F35 have been postponed by Lockheed Martin due to soaring costs as well

Not due to costs, due to huge problems with development.

The US needs Turkey and Saudi Arabia to increase its sales of the jet and involve the Turks in its production to reduce its production costs

US doesn't need 50 billion from Turkey and Saudis to make up money. US is US. 1000th F-35 was delivered last year. As of this month, it's now over 1250. F-35 is the most successful fighter aircraft in production since F-16 with all its problems on development and production.

Donald Trump said he doesn't like single engine planes.

His second government ordered about 120 F-35s since he came back to power. Trump also doesn't like the color blue, but drinks water.

 

[Zafer]

You're basically trolling at this point man. Make up your minds, if F-35 a trojan horse, a failed fighter US is trying to offload on everybody it can find or a wonder weapon? Noone is forcing F-35s on anyone. US is literally not doing anything to countries that do not want to buy F-35s other than simple pushing.

It is naive to think that Türkiye is treated the same as any other nation, Türkiye is the only independent country in the western hemisphere other than the US who also has some conflict of interests. A US general once said they desperately need to give F35 to Türkiye. It may be a commodity for other nations but is a tool to keep Türkiye locked up. Once you are on it it will drain your power by causing you trouble all the time.

 

[Quasar]

İf we turn back to reality and facts.... we are already in negotiation with US and this negotiation included the head of States... How long this negotiation/ process will take or whether it will succede or fail is another story...but stance, intention and decison of Turkiye for F 35 is quite clear.