TR Turkiye's F-35 Project and Discussions

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
3,570
Reactions
110 16,282
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
That would only look suspicious and we already know that it is no different from an iphone for being insidious.
They could just not spend millions on donations to US politicians to boot Turkey out of JSF; but they did that.

There's nothing suspicious about anything. Israel worked for more than 5 years actively to make sure Turkey didn't get F-35s and it is still working actively to keep the laws that enabled this to stay on line. And then we have Bibi and even Greek PM on live TV saying "Turkey not being able to get F-35s is actually great for us".

Only Turkey's rivals and some small onset of Turks support Turkey NOT getting F-35s. It's comical.
 

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
3,570
Reactions
110 16,282
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Barrack's latest to Bloomberg; can be read as an update on the Turkish F-35s

"They were part of the F-35 program, they have four F-35s in hangars in California, and Turkey was a major part of the airframe production."

First time hearing 4 F-35s instead of 6. Also dispels the claims that there are no aircraft in the hangars.
 

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
3,570
Reactions
110 16,282
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Meanwhile Israel is working overtime to put a wrench in the diplomacy.

"Netanyahu held a meeting this month with Frank St. John, COO of Lockheed Martin. Subject: Block Saudi Arabia & Turkey from obtaining F-35 jets.


 

IC3M@N FX

Contributor
Messages
518
Reactions
3 23 1,046
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
F35 is a threat to Türkiye, it can spy on Turkish systems and report to hostile parties.

Turkey needs the F-35 fighter jets, for better or worse.
It is also about being able to carry US nuclear weapons in a conflict with Russia/China, however unlikely that may be. The F-16 will reach EoL by 2035+ at the latest; the aircraft is technologically obsolete, and there is no longer any official upgrade path. The aircraft is being phased out, and even the US only wants to use the F-16 for home defence or as a zombie drone.
In addition, Turkey wants to use the Eurofighter and F-35 as reference platforms for its further development of future KAAN blocks for comparison. The Israelis know this and are terrified that Turkey will be able to produce TAI KAAN as mature GEN 5.5+ fighter aircraft from 2034+ that would be completely ITAR-free.
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
5,122
Reactions
13 7,929
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
S400 is already protecting Türkiye from the lethal F35; if it weren't for the S400 F35 could step in Türkiye and cause some damage that will not be immediately detectable as it is a latent damage that we will suffer from in the future. Russia has no interest waging a war with Türkiye and China is a country far far away. If we need to protect ourselves from a nuclear country we will do it ourselves and not rely on someone else. F35 can only serve the purpose of a connector putting Türkiye in the same cohort as the US otherwise we can neither study the F35 to learn from it nor can we use if for any beneficial purpose to us. And Netanyahu is helping a lot too, I will give him that.

As much as F35 is an F word never to be said by us it should not be said by Saudi Arabia either as we want them to say Kaan, again Netanyahu to the rescue.
 

IC3M@N FX

Contributor
Messages
518
Reactions
3 23 1,046
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
When viewed in this light, it even has a tangible advantage: the platform can participate in NATO operations without any major concerns and land in friendly NATO countries without having to constantly worry about industrial espionage. For the Turkish armed forces, 30–40 aircraft should be perfectly adequate as a core fleet.

The KAAN will not "share" any sensitive mission or sensor data with the F-35 anyway. And even if something accidentally leaks in the wrong direction via Link 16/22, it is very likely that technical protective measures will be put in place: a kind of kill/safe mode, hard data filters at the protocol and hardware level – and, in case of doubt, a switch to national data links such as T-Link.

At the same time, even without "data sharing", an F-35 can be evaluated very thoroughly – not only via radar and EM profiles, but also via IR signatures, metadata from sensor images and observable behaviour in the mission profile. These findings can then be consistently reflected in the development of one's own guided missiles – whether AAM or anti-aircraft missiles, including modern (hybrid) seeker heads and anti-ECCM logic.

Israel may be able to adapt a lot in terms of EW/ECM and software parameters – but the basic geometry and thus the physical radar and IR signature of a platform cannot simply be "configured away". This is precisely where the leverage lies: silhouette, signature and pattern remain measurable in the end.
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
5,122
Reactions
13 7,929
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I don't think you yourself believe this.
You are right, F35 couldn't step in Türkiye even if it weren't for the S400, there are more conditions for it than just the S400.

There are many downsides of the F35 that even close allies have already realized. And the threats are multiplied for Türkiye as Türkiye is one of the very few countries in the world that can care for its own interests above all others' and there is some real conflict of interests in the region. F35 has everything on it that can justify any conspiracy theory. Like a smart machine that can go against you any moment, its technology allows this.
 

uçuyorum

Contributor
Messages
1,150
Reactions
15 1,849
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
F35 sensors collect so much data, I'd be careful flying them anywhere within our borders. They could use a specific non critical base location of their own and have their dedicated flight paths for not collecting data about rest of our systems honestly. That's one of the issues with that platform. The possibility of us actually using nukes with F35, even if russia actually attacked us with nukes, is close to 0. We would be sacrificed if it came to that. US has no intention if covering for us
 

Quasar 

Contributor
Moderator
Messages
875
Reactions
54 3,832
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
Even just to see and study the performances of F35, KAAN, KIZILELMA, ANKA-3 and our radars is a good enough reason for me to have a small number of friendly F35s instead of and before the hostile ones
 
Last edited:

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
5,122
Reactions
13 7,929
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
just to see the performances of KAAN, KIZILELMA, ANKA-3 and our radars is a good enough reason for me to have a small number of friendly F35 instead of hostile ones
You can see Kaan's performance from another Kaan, F35 having a look at Turkish systems is not acceptable.
 

Follow us on social media

Latest posts

Top Bottom