TR Turkiye's F-35 Project and Discussions

[Zafer]

There is likely no such immediate kill switch but it's also not necessary to install one because if you are cut off from global network and logistics of it the thing will only fly for a few months

When pagers are bombs fighters are only more of it

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I think it is entirely possible that US Western weapon systems have technical barriers that prevent pilots from attacking certain targets – such as American or possibly Israeli ones – or that their effective deployment is deliberately prevented. However, I think it would be extremely difficult to prove whether something like this is actually possible via a frequency or code mechanism during flight – if such a thing even exists.

On the other hand, classic maintenance and logistics blockades are undisputed: without spare parts, software updates and approvals, aircraft and weapon systems simply remain grounded, even if they are still technically available.

There were also reports of an incident in which a German frigate in the Middle East attempted to intercept an unknown drone. Since the Germans were apparently not informed that it was a US drone – presumably from a secret mission (Black Ops maybe) – they attempted to engage the target with interceptor missiles. At least two or three interception attempts with US missiles are said to have failed. Whether this was due to technical, tactical or other reasons has never been officially clarified.

 

[Zafer]

I think it is entirely possible that US Western weapon systems have technical barriers that prevent pilots from attacking certain targets – such as American or possibly Israeli ones – or that their effective deployment is deliberately prevented. However, I think it would be extremely difficult to prove whether something like this is actually possible via a frequency or code mechanism during flight – if such a thing even exists.

On the other hand, classic maintenance and logistics blockades are undisputed: without spare parts, software updates and approvals, aircraft and weapon systems simply remain grounded, even if they are still technically available.

There were also reports of an incident in which a German frigate in the Middle East attempted to intercept an unknown drone. Since the Germans were apparently not informed that it was a US drone – presumably from a secret mission (Black Ops maybe) – they attempted to engage the target with interceptor missiles. At least two or three interception attempts with US missiles are said to have failed. Whether this was due to technical, tactical or other reasons has never been officially clarified.

You don't need to look back to realized examples, you need to look at what is possible. The fact that there is not a precedence means absolutely nothing. There will be an opportune moment in the future when sacrificing reliability to the immediate gains to be made will be reasonable then the sky will start to fall which is when you don't want to be under it.

 

[B_A]

Still Turkiye wants F35 ! Thats crazy !
How many times is proved that F35 works only in hands pf US & İsrael !
We should stop every defence agreement with US even marine engines and everything else , modernise ourselfs our f16 and if Kaan is not ready , buy more eurofighter like 150 or 200 of them
İ aslo suggest to buy China J10c aircraft and equip it the jandarma (airforce) since is not part of Airforce NATO umbrella and our allies cant raise voice agaist us .
150 j10c with turkish sub-systems + 70 eurofighter + 240 f16 will be a force noone can dare to come closse . But stupid Turkish politicians are sleeping while israel bombed T4 airbase with Turks there + , they send 16+ aircfrats around idlib (our border) as show of force and we could do NOTHİNG , whats next ! İ bet israel can boöb aselsan, TAİ, MKE etc and we cant do nothing because of politicians decide since 2010 go with israeli f35 shit and talks after talks like unmature teens .
Our nation is in grave national danger and alot of us are unaware of it .

This is an negotiation technique.
We need American give back the money or the planes to me.

 

[Sanchez]

Still Turkiye wants F35

Literally everyone that can get them on earth wants F-35s. It's simply the best fighter aircraft ever built, its capabilities are unparalleled.

equip it the jandarma (airforce) since is not part of Airforce NATO umbrella and our allies cant raise voice agaist us

That's not how that works.

When pagers are bombs fighters are only more of it

Fighter aircraft unlike pagers are not COTS items you buy from Hungary based Mossad shell companies. That's on Iran to be kicked on like that, idiots.

There were also reports of an incident in which a German frigate in the Middle East attempted to intercept an unknown drone. Since the Germans were apparently not informed that it was a US drone – presumably from a secret mission (Black Ops maybe) – they attempted to engage the target with interceptor missiles. At least two or three interception attempts with US missiles are said to have failed. Whether this was due to technical, tactical or other reasons has never been officially clarified.

Occam's razor; it's not the first time a German frigate failed to launch an SM-2.

 

[Zafer]

Fighter aircraft unlike pagers are not COTS items you buy from Hungary based Mossad shell companies. That's on Iran to be kicked on like that, idiots.

Of course it is not COTS, it does not even need intermediaries, it comes sraight from the enemy. You don't even get to look inside, it is a black box loaded with anything that will harm you in multiple ways. Heck you can't even find the traps even if you looked in it. It is an outright treason for knowingly stepping into the trap. But Türkiye has Kaan so reliance on F35 can be kept to a minimum by keeping numbers at absolute minimum. I would rather buy back GE shares in TEI for the investment we made in the F35. Having the F fighters is a chapter we should leave behind at once.

 

[Sanchez]

You don't even get to look inside, it is a black box loaded with anything that will harm you in multiple ways. Heck you can't even find the traps even if you looked in it.

We could actually. I do not subscribe to this viewpoint. We have facts from recent history. We have a country that refused to sell us aircraft with lobbying from regional rivals like Israel, UAE and Greece. F-35 is this silver bullet that is either a huge gamechanger or it's basically a poison pill with a built-in trigger. Both can't be true. If F-35 was as you said it was, Israel would instead lobby to have the F-35s delivered to us to keep us even more linked to US; not vice versa. But instead, they made it their chief foreign military policy goal re Turkey since 2016 to make sure we did NOT get them. Israel is the biggest F-35 user to date.

I would rather buy back GE shares in TEI for the investment we made in the F35.

That's also not how that works. We didn't "make" an investment into F-35; we paid the money to JSF consortium and they granted us with some contracts relating to production and future maintenance. JSF consortium's binding document is also pretty clear; only way to "recoup" the funds lost is through American courts. And American courts have to follow American laws. And American law say that Turkey by buying S-400 lost its right to F-35 and any and all related contracts and rights. Re GE in TEI; there's also no lucrative support contracts that heavily favor us without GE in TEI as well. Only few companies in the world get support contracts like TEI does from US re jets and naval turbines.

Having the F fighters is a chapter we should leave behind at once

If all goes according to plan last Özgürs will only leave service in 2050s at the earliest. Özgür or not, F-16 capability will always be linked to US. They are FMS aircraft; we are not doing anything to them without permission or in the lightest, tacit acceptance of US DoD and State Dept. They are not that özgür.

 

[Zafer]

Israel would instead lobby to have the F-35s delivered to us to keep us even more linked to US

That would only look suspicious and we already know that it is no different from an iphone for being insidious.

 

[Sanchez]

That would only look suspicious and we already know that it is no different from an iphone for being insidious.

They could just not spend millions on donations to US politicians to boot Turkey out of JSF; but they did that.

There's nothing suspicious about anything. Israel worked for more than 5 years actively to make sure Turkey didn't get F-35s and it is still working actively to keep the laws that enabled this to stay on line. And then we have Bibi and even Greek PM on live TV saying "Turkey not being able to get F-35s is actually great for us".

Only Turkey's rivals and some small onset of Turks support Turkey NOT getting F-35s. It's comical.

 

[Ryder]

That would only look suspicious and we already know that it is no different from an iphone for being insidious.

Everybody wants a Ferrari you know it.

Same with the F35 everybody wants it even if they deny it.

 

[Sanchez]

Barrack's latest to Bloomberg; can be read as an update on the Turkish F-35s

"They were part of the F-35 program, they have four F-35s in hangars in California, and Turkey was a major part of the airframe production."

First time hearing 4 F-35s instead of 6. Also dispels the claims that there are no aircraft in the hangars.

 

[Zafer]

F35 is a threat to Türkiye, it can spy on Turkish systems and report to hostile parties.

 

[Sanchez]

Meanwhile Israel is working overtime to put a wrench in the diplomacy.

"Netanyahu held a meeting this month with Frank St. John, COO of Lockheed Martin. Subject: Block Saudi Arabia & Turkey from obtaining F-35 jets.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1999484890526679258

Netanyahu reluctant to challenge Trump over F-35 sales to Saudi Arabia and Türkiye - Türkiye Today

Netanyahu plans to raise concerns about potential US sales of F-35 fighter jets to Saudi Arabia and Türkiye during his Dec. 29 meeting with Trump

www.turkiyetoday.com

 

[IC3M@N FX]

F35 is a threat to Türkiye, it can spy on Turkish systems and report to hostile parties.

Turkey needs the F-35 fighter jets, for better or worse.
It is also about being able to carry US nuclear weapons in a conflict with Russia/China, however unlikely that may be. The F-16 will reach EoL by 2035+ at the latest; the aircraft is technologically obsolete, and there is no longer any official upgrade path. The aircraft is being phased out, and even the US only wants to use the F-16 for home defence or as a zombie drone.
In addition, Turkey wants to use the Eurofighter and F-35 as reference platforms for its further development of future KAAN blocks for comparison. The Israelis know this and are terrified that Turkey will be able to produce TAI KAAN as mature GEN 5.5+ fighter aircraft from 2034+ that would be completely ITAR-free.

 

[Zafer]

S400 is already protecting Türkiye from the lethal F35; if it weren't for the S400 F35 could step in Türkiye and cause some damage that will not be immediately detectable as it is a latent damage that we will suffer from in the future. Russia has no interest waging a war with Türkiye and China is a country far far away. If we need to protect ourselves from a nuclear country we will do it ourselves and not rely on someone else. F35 can only serve the purpose of a connector putting Türkiye in the same cohort as the US otherwise we can neither study the F35 to learn from it nor can we use if for any beneficial purpose to us. And Netanyahu is helping a lot too, I will give him that.

As much as F35 is an F word never to be said by us it should not be said by Saudi Arabia either as we want them to say Kaan, again Netanyahu to the rescue.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

When viewed in this light, it even has a tangible advantage: the platform can participate in NATO operations without any major concerns and land in friendly NATO countries without having to constantly worry about industrial espionage. For the Turkish armed forces, 30–40 aircraft should be perfectly adequate as a core fleet.

The KAAN will not "share" any sensitive mission or sensor data with the F-35 anyway. And even if something accidentally leaks in the wrong direction via Link 16/22, it is very likely that technical protective measures will be put in place: a kind of kill/safe mode, hard data filters at the protocol and hardware level – and, in case of doubt, a switch to national data links such as T-Link.

At the same time, even without "data sharing", an F-35 can be evaluated very thoroughly – not only via radar and EM profiles, but also via IR signatures, metadata from sensor images and observable behaviour in the mission profile. These findings can then be consistently reflected in the development of one's own guided missiles – whether AAM or anti-aircraft missiles, including modern (hybrid) seeker heads and anti-ECCM logic.

Israel may be able to adapt a lot in terms of EW/ECM and software parameters – but the basic geometry and thus the physical radar and IR signature of a platform cannot simply be "configured away". This is precisely where the leverage lies: silhouette, signature and pattern remain measurable in the end.

 

[Afif]

S400 is already protecting Türkiye from the lethal F35; if it weren't for the S400 F35 could step in Türkiye

I don't think you yourself believe this.

 

[Zafer]

I don't think you yourself believe this.

You are right, F35 couldn't step in Türkiye even if it weren't for the S400, there are more conditions for it than just the S400.

There are many downsides of the F35 that even close allies have already realized. And the threats are multiplied for Türkiye as Türkiye is one of the very few countries in the world that can care for its own interests above all others' and there is some real conflict of interests in the region. F35 has everything on it that can justify any conspiracy theory. Like a smart machine that can go against you any moment, its technology allows this.

 

[uçuyorum]

F35 sensors collect so much data, I'd be careful flying them anywhere within our borders. They could use a specific non critical base location of their own and have their dedicated flight paths for not collecting data about rest of our systems honestly. That's one of the issues with that platform. The possibility of us actually using nukes with F35, even if russia actually attacked us with nukes, is close to 0. We would be sacrificed if it came to that. US has no intention if covering for us

 

[Quasar]

Even just to see and study the performances of F35, KAAN, KIZILELMA, ANKA-3 and our radars is a good enough reason for me to have a small number of friendly F35s instead of and before the hostile ones