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[Zafer]

Bombardier suspends delivery of aircraft engines used on military drones

Canadian company says it only recently became aware the engines were powering military UAVs

Bombardier Recreational Products (BRP) says it has suspended the delivery of aircraft engines to "countries with unclear usage" in the wake of reports that some of those engines are being used on Turkish combat drones deployed by Azerbaijan in fighting against Armenian forces in Nagorno-Karabakh.

The Quebec-based company — better known for its Ski-Doo and Lynx snowmobiles — said it became aware late last week that some of the recreational aircraft engines produced by its Austrian subsidiary, Rotax, are being used on Turkish Bayraktar TB2 unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

"We have recently been made aware that some Rotax engines are currently used in military UAVs, and have started a thorough investigation immediately," Martin Langelier, BPR's senior vice president and the company's spokesperson, told Radio Canada International in an email statement.

"In the meantime, we are suspending delivery of aircraft engines in countries with unclear usage."

Export controls and 'civilian' tech
Langelier said that all Rotax aircraft engines are designed and produced in Austria exclusively for civilian purposes and are certified for civilian use only.

Canada suspended most exports of defence technology to Turkey in October of 2019 following the Turkish invasion of northwestern Syria.

Michel Cimpaye, a spokesperson for Global Affairs Canada, said exports of items on the country's Export Control List require a permit only when exported from Canada.

Controlled goods and technology exported from another country, however, are subject to the export controls of that country, Cimpaye added.

Gabriele Juen, a spokesperson for the Austrian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said the Rotax engines are used in various motorsports and drones could be used "for a multitude of solely civilian purposes."

"The European Union Control List of Dual Use Items does not list the drone engine in question as a dual use good item," Juen said. "As a consequence, no approval permit is required under Austrian legislation that regulates the export of defence-related goods."

A loophole in arms control regimes
Kelsey Gallagher is a researcher with the disarmament group Project Ploughshares who has studied Canadian exports of drone technology to Turkey.

Gallagher said the matter of BRP recreational aircraft engines ending up on Turkish combat drones exposes a serious flaw in international arms control regimes.

"I think this speaks to the fact that components such as engines should more frequently fall under regulations that we see for what we deem to be more conventional weapons," he said. "Frequently, engines are not controlled as weapons systems even though they are integral, like other components, to the operation of a vehicle."

The Bayraktar TB2 drones also feature optical sensors and target designation systems produced by L3 Harris WESCAM in Burlington, Ont.

On Monday, defence officials in Armenia displayed what they claimed are parts of a Bayraktar TB2 drone and its Canadian-made optical and target acquisition systems, as well as its Rotax engine.

A spokesperson for the Armenian Ministry of Defence said another Turkish Bayraktar TB2 drone was shot down by Armenian air defence units during fighting in Nagorno-Karabakh on Thursday.

Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan has called on countries that supply components for the Turkish drone program to follow Canada's example and suspend all exports of such components to Turkey.

Fighting in the breakaway Nagorno-Karabakh region of Azerbaijan, which is populated by ethnic Armenians, began on Sept. 27. It's the most significant outburst of violence since a Russian-brokered ceasefire paused hostilities in 1994.

Armenia has repeatedly accused Turkey of supplying Azerbaijan with arms — including drones and F-16 fighter jets — as well as military advisers and jihadist Syrian mercenaries taking part in the fighting.

Armenian officials also have accused Azerbaijan of using the Turkish drones to not only target military forces but also to conduct strikes against civilian infrastructure across Nagorno-Karabakh and in Armenia proper.

Turkey and Azerbaijan have denied these reports. The Turkish embassy did not respond to a request for comment

Officials at Global Affairs Canada said they are investigating allegations regarding the possible use of Canadian technology in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict and "will continue to assess the situation."


View attachment 4809
Foreign Affairs Minister Francois-Philippe Champagne addresses a press conference at the High Commission of Canada in London on January 16, 2020. (Tolga Akmen/AFP/Getty Images)


Foreign Affairs Minister Francois-Philippe Champagne suspended the export permits for WESCAM optical sensors and target acquisition systems on Oct. 6.

However, senior Global Affairs officials speaking at Thursday's briefing for MPs on the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh could not explain why an exemption was made for these exports in the first place, given the embargo announced in 2019 and renewed in April of this year.

Appearing before the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development, Shalini Anand, acting director general for export controls at Global Affairs Canada, said she could not discuss the issue of the permits because of "commercial confidentiality."

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau specifically discussed the issue of WESCAM exports to Turkey with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan during a phone conversation in April, according to sources who spoke with Radio Canada International on condition of anonymity.

The issue was discussed again during their phone conversation on Oct. 16, according to the Prime Minister's Office.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/turkey-armenia-azerbaijan-drones-bombardier-1.5775350

I guess we will learn soon enough if TEI PG115 engine is ripe for the job.

 

[Combat-Master]

I guess we will learn soon enough if TEI PG115 engine is ripe for the job.

Why wouldn't it be the PD175 and PD220 are working splendidly, I have no doubt.

 

[Zafer]

Why wouldn't it be the PD175 and PD220 are working splendidly, I have no doubt.

While they are a good indication PG series have slight difference where they are not diesel engines and they are spark ignited engines. And the engine that they are to replace is the top of the line engine. SO it will be fantastic if it can replace the Rotaxes without much performance loss. Now that the PG115 is a 115hp rated engine even some efficiency loss can be accommodated readily while its sturdiness will need to be tested. By the way when the last time Mr. Mahmut Akşit talked about it PG115 had already recorded 15k hours of flight time under its belt. And it was like a year ago or so.

 

[Zafer]

Why wouldn't it be the PD175 and PD220 are working splendidly, I have no doubt.

Huhh, are we calling PD170 as PD175 now, that is another good news if so.

 

[Test7]

Why wouldn't it be the PD175 and PD220 are working splendidly, I have no doubt.

in fact, such embargoes are an excellent motivator for Turkish defense industry. They are not aware, but Soon they will make the Turkish defense industry giant with their own hands.

 

[Reviewbrah]

in fact, such embargoes are an excellent motivator for Turkish defense industry. They are not aware, but Soon they will make the Turkish defense industry giant with their own hands.

They give motivation to the industry, even government cannot give

 

[Hexciter]

What kind of HGK is that? She has different front section in contrary to known shape (The bomb attached pylon in above.).

 

[Combat-Master]

While they are a good indication PG series have slight difference where they are not diesel engines and they are spark ignited engines. And the engine that they are to replace is the top of the line engine. SO it will be fantastic if it can replace the Rotaxes without much performance loss. Now that the PG115 is a 115hp rated engine even some efficiency loss can be accommodated readily while its sturdiness will need to be tested. By the way when the last time Mr. Mahmut Akşit talked about it PG115 had already recorded 15k hours of flight time under its belt. And it was like a year ago or so.

You can see the progression of development from air-cooled PG-30/40/50 series of engines - they haven't just jumped into it they've worked their way up to PG-115. The development of the heavy fuel engine is a testament to their ability to develop ICE engines.

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1320321317325950976

I am going to be rooting for more arms embargo.

 

[adenl]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1320321317325950976

I am going to be rooting for more arms embargo.

This combination can hit 20 targets. 16 Cirit carried by the T-129 and 4 MAM by the Anka.

 

[Turko]

What kind of HGK is that? She has different front section in contrary to known shape (The bomb attached pylon in above.). View attachment 4833

GPS guidance?

 

[AzeriTank]

I just find it hard to believe that the S-300 can't hit targets (that it "errors out") when the object is moving slower than 180 km/h when, for example, helicopters have always been within the target envelope of that system.

There are many other, more valid, reasons as to why the Armenian S-300 can't or won't shoot down a TB2:

• Heavy EW provided by TR/AZ KORAL, E-7 and similar systems.
• Large numbers of TR/AZ decoys airborne during TB2 operations which makes differentiating real and fake TB2s very difficult,
• Maybe AR doesn't have enough missiles ready to fir

• e... Just because there's a TEL on the ground doesn't mean it's loaded.
• Lack of trained personnel capable of properly operating the radars and TELs.... A lot of Armenians have fled the battlefield!!!
• System malfunctions... Armenian S-300s are old and unreliable.
• Russian interference... Maybe the Russians asked the Armenians not to use their S-300 to shoot down AZ assets b/c they want to retain a certain level of ties with AZ.
• TELs aren't connected to a working radar at the time because of the presence of anti-radar kamikaze drones (HAROP)

All of these make more sense to me than "S-300 errors out when the target is moving slower than 180 km/h".

I would say when they shoot An2, we send there Harop or TB2 with EW, we know their exact location. the fun part, Russia sent those s300 so he is able to prove it against tb2 but got caught in its own game

 

[AzeriTank]

I'm loving it. I follow some Greek news outlets too and I'm just so delighted to see them doubt the capabilities of their "SAM umbrella" now. Ptisidiastima, for example, just relased a huge article with close to 100 comments with people trying to come up with a "solution", but they can't.

I simply cannot wait for Goksungur....

 

[Saithan]

I feel sick listening to the "hopeful" narration of that we can get the rotax engine from third countries who buy it from Bombadier.

It's a disease that needs to be rooted out.

 

[Anmdt]

I feel sick listening to the "hopeful" narration of that we can get the rotax engine from third countries who buy it from Bombadier.

It's a disease that needs to be rooted out.

TEI has PG series, Baykar should get involved a little and put these engines on test with TB-2.
Until today they have benefited from tests conducted by TAI on ANKA platform. Its their turn to test and integrate something.

 

[Combat-Master]

TEI has PG series, Baykar should get involved a little and put these engines on test with TB-2.
Until today they have benefited from tests conducted by TAI on ANKA platform. Its their turn to test and integrate something.

I believe they are testing it out, like the CATS we saw on TB2. They are likely keeping it low-key atm.

 

[Saithan]

TEI has PG series, Baykar should get involved a little and put these engines on test with TB-2.
Until today they have benefited from tests conducted by TAI on ANKA platform. Its their turn to test and integrate something.

Yes, a presidential decree shouldn't be necessary

 

[Saithan]

Karayel-SU TUAV

GlobalSecurity.org is the leading source for reliable military news and military information.

www.globalsecurity.org

I wish Karayel would use TEI engine. Especially if it's true that everything is developed by Vestels own engineers, then refitting TEI's engine shouldn't take that much time.

Saudi Arabia to Produce Turkish Guns From 2021

Saudi Arabia Will Produce Turkish SİHA From 2021 - In the statement made on the Twitter account of the General Directorate of Military Industry of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (GAMI), unmanned aerial vehicle systems will be produced locally.

raillynews.com

It looks pretty solid too.

 

[Ryder]

Lmaooo west and its hypocrisy if they care so much about human rights perhaps close the arms industry. Azerbaijan literally had ballistic missiles rain down on their cities also have their land occupied somehow they are crying human rights. If the west is cares so much human rights perhaps stop selling weapons
While they sell weapons basically outline you cant do this and that. Seriously when I buy something I can do whatever the fck I want. I bought it with my own money you sold it end of story. Free market capitalism my ass.

They are weapons designed to kill not throw chocolates and flowers.

Oh well this means less dependance on foreign sources. I have full trust that Turkish engineers will deliver and send the middle finger to the Canadians.

 

[Bayraktar TB2]

Possible 144 TB2 's produced by February this year:

@adenl 154?