TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

Merzifonlu

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You simply turn a drone into a flying relay radio station and everything else stays the same. Ground station sends signals to the flying relay station and it sends the signal to the operated KE and the signal follows the same path back. You can even employ multiple relay drones for longer range.
No. Why should I go to all this trouble and risk if I were to use a relay drone? Even if you rise 15 km from the ground, the LOS range becomes 1000s of km. If you are going to engage in A2A warfare, it is absolutely essential that a drone stays within LOS range all time. No relay drone needed. A friend suggested AWACS for this job. it's also possible but I think stealth body is safer than an AWACS.
 

Zafer

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No. Why should I go to all this trouble and risk if I were to use a relay drone? Even if you rise 15 km from the ground, the LOS range becomes 1000s of km. If you are going to engage in A2A warfare, it is absolutely essential that a drone stays within LOS range all time. No relay drone needed. A friend suggested AWACS for this job. it's also possible but I think stealth body is safer than an AWACS.
LOS limits your operation to 150km to 300km.
 

godel44

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AI winning dogfights is already starting to happen. There was this bit of news from the US where in a DARPA event a private company's AI beat an experienced F-16 pilot in a simulated dogfight. I imagine this AI system uses reinforcement learning and created a huge training dataset from existing records of dogfights and then simulating dogfights against itself, thereby learning from millions of such encounters. It is not hard for Baykar to do something like this.

You can always give or withhold permission to fire on given targets before engaging in dogfights and when you are comfortable from a latency POV. I think this is in general how the problem of signal latency is going to be solved. They will transmit most information and permissions when KE can tolerate latency and then it will quickly go in and out of situations where latency is critical (dogfighting, SEAD etc.) by leaning on well-configured AI systems.

This would be even easier in BVR situations where you know where the target is approximately so you can tell KE to fire the missile whenever you see the target on your radar. This is indeed how it would happen in war scenarios where there won't be civilian or neutral aircraft in the vicinity. Peacetime dogfighting over the Aegean is not that important but can still be done with AI or by F-16s.
 

Bogeyman 

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Within the scope of the KARGI Project, a low smoke solid fuel rocket engine was developed by TÜBİTAK SAGE as a launch engine and 10 live rocket engines were delivered to LENTATEK Company.
Fb_fgq0WYAMJVYO


I think it looks like it will use 2 different engines as booster and main engine.
 

Merzifonlu

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LOS limits your operation to 150km to 300km.
Ask @Yasar (Yerden yükselince LOS menzili ne kadar oluyor, anlatsın. Ben de anlatırım da oturup hesaplamam lazım. Tembel adamım ben.)

Anyway, I calculate. LOS = (2x6371xh1)^0,5 + (2x6371xh2)^0,5

If h1=h2=8 km, then LOS 620 km

h1, h2 Are the altitudes of the aircrafts, respectively. And 6371 km is the radius of the earth.

As I thought at the beginning, thousands of km did not come out, but this 600+ km LOS is quite enough.
 
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Hasanrize

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And yet turkey send ukraine tb2 and kirpi.
The success of kirpi in ukraine with many videos tweeted now will make sure there will be a lot of export order for them in the future
TB-2 is product of Baykar Makina and Kirpi is product of BMC. Baykar is a pure arms company, and BMC is not purely but mostly an arms company.

Kargı, on the other hand, is a product of Lentatek. Lentatek is simply a Vestel subsidiary. Unlike other companies, Vestel has a shit load of civil products and probably works in Russia. Baykar can sell weapons like there is no tomorrow, but Vestel would face significant consequences in the Russian market for their civil products.
 

Nutuk

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Ask @Yasar (Yerden yükselince LOS menzili ne kadar oluyor, anlatsın. Ben de anlatırım da oturup hesaplamam lazım. Tembel adamım ben.)

Anyway, I calculate. LOS = (2x6371xh1)^0,5 + (2x6371xh2)^0,5

If h1=h2=8 km, then LOS 620 km

h1, h2 Are the altitudes of the aircrafts, respectively. And 6371 km is the radius of the earth.

As I thought at the beginning, thousands of km did not come out, but this 600+ km LOS is quite enough.

Very well dude, but how we reach a LOS height of 8km? Do we have a mount everest in Turkiye I do not know of?
 

Merzifonlu

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Very well dude, but how we reach a LOS height of 8km? Do we have a mount everest in Turkiye I do not know of?
The aircraft carrying the operators will always stand high. Like 10-15 km. 8 km is an approximate altitude that I chose to simplify the calculation. But you're basically right about altitude. In a mountainous landscape like Turkiye, the LOS will be interrupted frequently.

It's a dynamic process, the altitude of at least one of the planes will be fluctuating. Predicting interruptions and executing operator commands require highly sophisticated artificial intelligence. That's why I said it's a very difficult job.
 

Yasar_TR

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The formula for distance of horizon is:
d=~√2hR
d= distance
h= height of your eyes
R= radius of Earth
for ease of calculation we can simplify it to
d=~ 3.57√h
So if your eyes are at 100m above sea level then the horizon is at 35.7km away.
Hoewver radar horizon is a little bit further:
d=~4.12 √h
So if the radar mast is at 100m above sea level the horizon is at 41.2km away.

So an awacs plane at an altitude of 10000m can see the horizon as 412km away. That means, if a terrain hugging cruise missile is travelling at 100m altitude the awacs radar will see the missile at 412+41.2= 453.2km away.
But if there is another plane at 10000m altitude. It would be visible to the awacs from 412+412=824km away. (If the radar of awacs can detect it)
1662506650933.jpeg

LOS operational distance, if you take in to consideration most drones’ operational height, is around 300km. (This is the distance quoted for TB2s after latest improvements to their communication capabilities)
Remember atmospheric conditions change. Density of air changes. These all have an effect on healthy communications between the ground control and the drone. Strength of a signal, free from jamming and distortions is important. That is why longer distance communication is safer via satellite. But that comes with latency problems.
 

Zafer

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The hights of common mountains in Türkiye is around 3000 meters. Even if you use one of the mountain tops to lay cables to from a ground station you will have limited sight and the plane has to make more powerfull transmissions. I believe a relay drone will only add latencies of miliseconds and not more.
 

Ravenman

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