TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

Agha Sher

Experienced member
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
2,684
Reactions
10 9,113
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Afghanistan
View attachment 49272

Yay it's actuatin time. The aircraft's actuators are now visible as well. This clears a lot of questions I believe. BAYKAR will use their standard configuration.
I think this is just an illustration of the first prototype. Overall stealth and build quality will improve towards serial production
 

MADDOG

Contributor
Türkiye Correspondent
Professional
Messages
1,215
Reactions
31 7,949
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Cyprus
I think this is just an illustration of the first prototype. Overall stealth and build quality will improve towards serial production
Of course it will. This doesn't have that much to do with "build quality" though. This is simply a design choice. And there better be a respectable reason behind it.
 

Agha Sher

Experienced member
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
2,684
Reactions
10 9,113
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Afghanistan
Of course it will. This doesn't have that much to do with "build quality" though. This is simply a design choice. And there better be a respectable reason behind it.
The build quality also seems to be that of a prototype. Clearly visible panels etc
 

MADDOG

Contributor
Türkiye Correspondent
Professional
Messages
1,215
Reactions
31 7,949
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Cyprus
The build quality also seems to be that of a prototype. Clearly visible panels etc
Baykar tends to improve their build quality overtime. Viewing their ongoing programs might as well be a good example to this. Akinci later got her exposed actuators covered up for instance, there were certain changes to the design as well. The Kızılelma currently has wrinkles all over the fuselage, whilst this may be caused by the supposed RAM material the aircraft is coated with, it may also be partially due to build quality issues. I believe these so called "issues" will get fixed at the end of the day. But I don't know what they're gonna do with those actuators.

FYI= The actuators in question will actually be covered up, like Akıncı. So they won't be dangling off the aircraft anytime soon. No need to worry about that. They're simply not situated inside the fuselage. BAYKAR has been doing this for quite some time. This does however compromise stealth a little bit. So let's see what they come up with.
 

Radonsider

Contributor
Messages
1,355
Reactions
13 2,528
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Bosnia & Herzegovina
i think it will get covered, this is definetly an illustration of the prototype.


But yes, they will be outside, not inside.

A stealth fairing will be added
 

MADDOG

Contributor
Türkiye Correspondent
Professional
Messages
1,215
Reactions
31 7,949
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Cyprus
Looks like they edited a photo of the existing drone to the picture, so not the final product.
The render in question is extremely detailed. From rivets to the details on the pitot tubes, etc. Almost looks as if they removed the background of a real picture.
 

Merzifonlu

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
691
Reactions
24 2,052
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
These are relatively minor things that can be worked upon in the future.
I'm sure Baykar is planning to produce KE just like in this photo. At least the version flying at subsonic speeds.

As I said, it will be cheap to produce with this design and the actuators will be easy to maintain thanks to this design. Since it will fly at subsonic speeds, air resistance is negligible. Also since the actuators will remain "inside", they will not be exposed to radar beams in most positions. They will also be carefully covered with RAM.

But I think the most ideal would be to use the design of the canards in these pieces from the very beginning.
 

Boz

Committed member
DH Visual Specialist
Messages
275
Reactions
20 2,557
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
With slightly better tone.

Screen Shot 2022-10-22 at 16.23.44.png
 

MADDOG

Contributor
Türkiye Correspondent
Professional
Messages
1,215
Reactions
31 7,949
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Cyprus
I'm sure Baykar is planning to produce KE just like in this photo. At least the version flying at subsonic speeds.

As I said, it will be cheap to produce with this design and the actuators will be easy to maintain thanks to this design. Since it will fly at subsonic speeds, air resistance is negligible. Also since the actuators will remain "inside", they will not be exposed to radar beams in most positions. They will also be carefully covered with RAM.

But I think the most ideal would be to use the design of the canards in these pieces from the very beginning.
I agree completely. We are seeing the MIUS-A imo.
 

Agha Sher

Experienced member
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
2,684
Reactions
10 9,113
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Afghanistan
I'm sure Baykar is planning to produce KE just like in this photo. At least the version flying at subsonic speeds.

As I said, it will be cheap to produce with this design and the actuators will be easy to maintain thanks to this design. Since it will fly at subsonic speeds, air resistance is negligible. Also since the actuators will remain "inside", they will not be exposed to radar beams in most positions. They will also be carefully covered with RAM.

But I think the most ideal would be to use the design of the canards in these pieces from the very beginning.
Absolutely not. You can even see that the aircraft has test flight instruments on its nose and wings. The first serial produced KE will have a lot more stealth and better built quality
 

MADDOG

Contributor
Türkiye Correspondent
Professional
Messages
1,215
Reactions
31 7,949
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Cyprus
I don think so, I can see test instruments installed on aircraft compared to mock-ups or renders.

But seems like actuators will be covered just like F-22s

No problem imo
Disregard the test equipment, that's a pretty solid MIUS-A right there.
 

MADDOG

Contributor
Türkiye Correspondent
Professional
Messages
1,215
Reactions
31 7,949
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Cyprus
Yep, seems stealth,

Just paint those rivets to same colour as the body :D and we are good to go
Yea I honestly believe she would be pretty solid in her current state. Sure, build quality needs improving etc. But the configuration we are seeing here, doesn't seem massively off as a whole.
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
4,463
Reactions
6 7,139
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I have been wondering if a larger missile like the Tayfun can be launched from Kızılelme or any plane for that matter. A plane has a limited carrying capacity for weapons on its pylons but a similar problem was solved for the now retired space shuttle by carrying it on top of a Boeing 747 passenger plane. Now if Tayfun can be launched from the top of a plane it can possibly be done from a small UCAV like the Kızılelma as its carrying capacity will be more when place on top. As a version of KE will have larger wings for its size for carrier borne operations it will have a good capacity to carry more load when it takes off from a longer runway. It maybe difficult but it may not be impossible.
 

NitricAcid

Active member
Messages
97
Reactions
2 751
Nation of residence
India
Nation of origin
India

Kapgan, the "heavy brother" of digital union, is on show for the first time​

The heavy class Kapgan is added to the unmanned land vehicle solutions developed within the Turkish defense industry.​

Goksel Yildirim |23.10.2022

Kapgan, the heavy brother of digital union, is on show for the first time


Ankara​

According to the information received by the AA correspondent, HAVELSAN has been working for a while to develop unmanned land, air and sea vehicles for the concept of "digital unity".
As the first example of these studies, the company developed the middle class unmanned land vehicle Barkan. Barkan, who gained new abilities in line with the demands of the security forces, is expected to enter the inventory soon.

HAVELSAN has been working on heavy class unmanned land vehicles for a while as a continuation of this work. Kapgan emerged as a result of these studies.
Kapgan will be exhibited for the first time at the SAHA Expo International Defense and Aviation Fair, which will be held by SAHA Istanbul on October 25-28.
20221023_2_55648711_81990893.jpg

More powerful platform, more effective weapon​

The heavy class unmanned ground vehicle, named after Göktürk Kagan "Kapgan Kagan", which means "conqueror", draws attention with its 30x113 millimeter weapon system. This weapon system, which has armor-piercing features against land and air targets, will provide a deterrent to an effective range of 2000 meters. Weapon systems of different types and calibers can also be integrated into Kapgan.
With its wheeled structure that provides high maneuverability, Kapgan will have superior operational capability in all weather and terrain conditions and in different visibility conditions. Apart from other useful loads to be used in the tactical field, there will be interfaces to carry loads on the platform when deemed necessary.
Thanks to the HAVELSAN Autonomy Package, Kapgan will provide a high level of resistance against electronic warfare with its ability to perform autonomous patrol, GPS-independent mission, dynamic route planning, return home in case of link loss, and drivable path analysis.
20221023_2_55648711_81990891.jpg

Collaborating with drones​

Kapgan will provide day/night vision and operation by sensing the environment thanks to its 5 km tactical data link, GSM and satellite communication infrastructure, 4 meters upgradeable perimeter surveillance mast and high-tech sensor systems.
Thanks to the wired or wireless drone integrated into the vehicle, it can be used as a relay in cases where the range is insufficient, uninterrupted communication will be provided via the drone integrated modem, and the areas that are out of sight can be easily monitored over the drone. In this way, the vehicle's reconnaissance, surveillance and operational capabilities will be increased.
Developed in accordance with mixed/swarm digital unity mission execution, Kapgan provides an effective solution against asymmetric threats, automatic target tracking, support needed in residential area operations, reconnaissance, surveillance, patrols and tactical transfers thanks to its high mobility, basic missions and most importantly, digital combat areas. will meet your needs.

6 hours operation capability​

Ergonomic and modular ground command and control stations with robotic arm integration will also enable Kapgan to increase the high strike capability of law enforcement officers.
Thanks to its native and original software and modular architecture, Kapgan will also have the operational configuration opportunity to perform various tasks in different sizes and types for different needs.
The heavy class unmanned land vehicle has a weight of 1400 kilograms and a payload capacity of 600 kilograms. Kapgan reaches a speed of 25 kilometers per hour and can operate for 6 hours. Kapgan can be controlled by methods such as line-of-sight communication over 5 kilometers and GSM communication.
The electric motor vehicle performs operations with capabilities such as 0.5 meters obstacle clearance and 1.2 meters trench crossing.

Source : https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/bilim-tekn...-abisi-kapgan-ilk-kez-vitrine-cikiyor/2718594
 

dBSPL

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Ambassador
Messages
2,058
Reactions
77 10,635
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I have been wondering if a larger missile like the Tayfun can be launched from Kızılelme or any plane for that matter. A plane has a limited carrying capacity for weapons on its pylons but a similar problem was solved for the now retired space shuttle by carrying it on top of a Boeing 747 passenger plane. Now if Tayfun can be launched from the top of a plane it can possibly be done from a small UCAV like the Kızılelma as its carrying capacity will be more when place on top. As a version of KE will have larger wings for its size for carrier borne operations it will have a good capacity to carry more load when it takes off from a longer runway. It maybe difficult but it may not be impossible.
We know the AKBABA(Vulture) missile as an anti-radiation missile project. However, in my opinion, the other detail that is as important as the seeker is the propulsion system being developed within the scope of this project. A ramjet that can accelerate an 800-1000 lb missile to 4-6 mach speeds can be quickly adapted to other needs with different warheads and seekers. In other words, imagine that the Kızılelma system is capable of firing hypersonic air-ground ammunition at engagement distances of +200 km; this would pose an extraordinary threat to the air defense capabilities of the hostile countries around us.
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
4,463
Reactions
6 7,139
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
We know the AKBABA(Vulture) missile as an anti-radiation missile project. However, in my opinion, the other detail that is as important as the seeker is the propulsion system being developed within the scope of this project. A ramjet that can accelerate an 800-1000 lb missile to 4-6 mach speeds can be quickly adapted to other needs with different warheads and seekers. In other words, imagine that the Kızılelma system is capable of firing hypersonic air-ground ammunition at engagement distances of +200 km; this would pose an extraordinary threat to the air defense capabilities of the hostile countries around us.
That's absolutely true.
But for longer and longer ranges we might utilize planes to launch bigger missiles. They can both be ramjet or scramjet or regular rockets like the Tayfun. What I am suggesting as an exploratory project is to piggyback a large missile on a small plane. And also perhaps not harming its stealth features all that much as the missile will be pretty shadowed on top of the plane against ground radars.
 

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,028
Reactions
112 14,714
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
We know the AKBABA(Vulture) missile as an anti-radiation missile project. However, in my opinion, the other detail that is as important as the seeker is the propulsion system being developed within the scope of this project. A ramjet that can accelerate an 800-1000 lb missile to 4-6 mach speeds can be quickly adapted to other needs with different warheads and seekers. In other words, imagine that the Kızılelma system is capable of firing hypersonic air-ground ammunition at engagement distances of +200 km; this would pose an extraordinary threat to the air defense capabilities of the hostile countries around us.
Just to add to above info;
There are two ramjet projects at the moment being developed.

First one is Tubitak-Sage ramjet for Gökhan a2a missile. This missile is going to have a liquid fuelled ramjet engine. But most likely that the liquid fuel will be a Gel-Based fuel. Thus enabling easy storage and throttle ability through fuel injectors. Down side being the presence of a fuel tank.

The Akbaba ramjet powered missile being developed by Roketsan is going to have solid fuel. This is a very difficult technology to implement as the solid fuel is stuck on to the inner periphery of the combustion chamber and is cut out in layers by air jets to give throttle control.

In both cases there has to be a booster section to bring the missile to the right supersonic speed for the ramjet to kick in. But because of the throttle control characteristics, the missiles will travel at low supersonic to reach their targets and then fly at near hypersonic speeds at terminal stage to guarantee a kill for the Gökhan. Also for the Akbaba, without giving a chance for interception.

Any missile launched from a plane will have a very large range advantage over it’s land launched counterpart. Israeli Rampage (basically our trg300 but air launched) is a good example of this.
Same can be said for the Russian Kinzhal missile which basically is the Iskander missile launched from air.

Akbaba being an anti radiation missile, is a very sophisticated missile and not cheap. A ramjet is most aptly chosen engine to power it.
But for air to ground supersonic missile attack that is economical, a “rampage“ style missile is the right ticket to do the job. The 120km ground launched version’s range will most likely be doubled at the least.
I am still waiting for Roketsan to come up with the Turkish version.
At 570kg each an Akinci can accommodate 3 of them easily.
 
Last edited:

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom