TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Zafer]

TFX has lots of metal inside of it whereas KE is likely to be mostly composite.

• KE cost will be a fraction of the cost of the TFX, like 1/7-1/8 as per Baykar's announcement
• KE will be operational 4 years earlier than TFX

 

[kenny]

KE::Composite
TF-X : Metal alloy

Actually plastic

 

[Rodeo]

I was relieved when the Anka-3 and TAI stealth fighter news came out . Baykar KE fast development is really concerning and unrealistic . TAI will beat and destroy Baykar if the airforce made a competition . I would choose a company with aviation experience than a company with drone experience for the stealth fighter .

TAI fighter or new projects will be based on the experience of a real stealth Tf-x production and design process while Baykar KE is just Akinci just in other form .

Look how precise the Tf-x prototype

And then the KE , let's not mention the actuator and how they covered it

You have a point. I am also concerned with the sloppily built prototypes of Baykar. And those actuators are an eyesore. But they're a very young company and growing like crazy. They should eventually mature their manufacturing quality. They seem to prioritize speed of development over everything else. Much like Elon Musk's companies. We should wait a few years to see if they're gonna catch up with TAI in terms of manufacturing capabilities.

But you're right. I trust TAI's quality and methodology more than BAYKAR's. The latter is a private company. They have a different mindset and operation.

 

[Radonsider]

We shouldn't expect a high quality production on Kızılelma. And also a very low RCS seems impossible. Kızılelma probably will not have a RAM on it too. 0.1-0.05m² RCS would be pretty good for a platform like this cheap. Baykar should make it as cheapest as possible by lowering overall build quality and sacrificing RCS.

This doesn't seem viable
Even the TB-2 has really good production quality, Baykar SHOULD NOT comprise it's stealth

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Your personal "expert" opinions about TAI and Baykar don't change anything.
Both are working hard for this country.

 

[Trakya_forever]

In Baykar We Trust.

 

[AWP]

We shouldn't expect a high quality production on Kızılelma. And also a very low RCS seems impossible. Kızılelma probably will not have a RAM on it too. 0.1-0.05m² RCS would be pretty good for a platform like this cheap. Baykar should make it as cheapest as possible by lowering overall build quality and sacrificing RCS.

I disagree with you . private companies like Baykar should have a good production quality so they can compete in any where in fact it's a must since they made world stage with tb-2 .

In Turkey situation where it's hard to buy new air platforms , the domestic alternative must be on a high level since this UAV platforms will be the backbone of the Turkish airforce power .

I like Baykar and I wish them the best , but this KE at the moment is a total BS .

 

[MADDOG]

KE::Composite
TF-X : Metal alloy

Heh?

 

[MADDOG]

We shouldn't expect a high quality production on Kızılelma. And also a very low RCS seems impossible. Kızılelma probably will not have a RAM on it too. 0.1-0.05m² RCS would be pretty good for a platform like this cheap. Baykar should make it as cheapest as possible by lowering overall build quality and sacrificing RCS.

I've heard that the aircraft is coated with RAM but take it with a pinch of salt.

 

[Radonsider]

Honestly I don't even think aircraft had "serious" RCS simulations and tests. Probably it will not see a RCS test chamber at all. Maybe when Tusaş's one starts servicing buuut I doubt.

You are not going to design an aircraft without RCS Sims, even 80s aircraft had been tested with those simulations, albeit simpler


You really underestimate Baykar tbh

 

[Zafer]

What is the point of commenting on an unfinished work. Baykar will work on perfecting the KE in a continuous manner. Every iteration will be a better product until it meets the requirement of the day. It only needs to be able to beat the enemy and not necessarily be far better than but only be ahead of them. This way the product will be available as early as possible.

 

[Baris]

Isn't one of the main advantages of Kızılelma is that it is meant to be expendable and cheaper (1/9th of a traditional fighter jet) compared to 5th gen fighters but still being the leading 1st gen jet drone fighter ? Why are we comparing it with something like the TF-X ?
Compare it with any other drone, the features it will have surpass every other drone out there.

 

[Siper>MMU]

You are not going to design an aircraft without RCS Sims, even 80s aircraft had been tested with those simulations, albeit simpler


You really underestimate Baykar tbh

Kızılelma came pretty quickly. I think they focused primarily on making this thing fly first. Later they can focus on RCS improvements. It's very easy to modify an unmanned aircraft.

 

[Radonsider]

Kızılelma came pretty quickly. I think they focused primarily on making this thing fly first. Later they can focus on RCS improvements. It's very easy to modify an unmanned aircraft.

They would still need to run RCS simulations for the overall design.


We can easily see that they will replace parts in the future, mainly GNSS thing and antennas, production quality, and actuators.
Overall design will stay the same

 

[Zafer]

"There are three basic types of UCAVs. The first class are “expendables”, that are launched by fighter planes or bombers in the air. They are small drones, cheap to manufacture, and can carry weapons, jammers, or sensors. These little planes never return to base. The second class are called "attritables," meaning that they can be sacrificed but not in great number. They can cost a few million dollars each, carry weapons, jammers, or ISR [intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance] systems, and land back at home base if they survive the fight. The final class are called “survivables” and they can cost up to $50 million each. They perform many of the same missions as manned fighter planes and are expected to return to base. Boeing recently replaced an F-16 pilot with computers in the cockpit, making the fighter plane autonomous. At about $20 million each, they are survivables."

Unmanned fighter planes (UCAVs) and the kill web - Military Embedded Systems

WARFARE EVOLUTION BLOG. Unmanned autonomous fighter planes are the most interesting elements in the advanced kill web, even more intriguing than the manned super-stealthy 6G fighter planes we discussed in previous articles. UCAVs (Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicles) have the potential to render our...

militaryembedded.com

 

[Deliorman]

Yeah you have some imperfections on the body of KE but let's not forget that this is only the first prototype. All they will use this thing for is testing and trying new stuff so do you even need it to look perfect?

By the end of this journey I am sure that Baykar will perfect the design yet how useful this drone will be in real combat situations is something that I can't answer. Hopefully Turkish strategists will find ways to use this beauties in the best way possible.

 

[Radonsider]

Well Akıncı still has some gaps around panels. It doesn't mean it's built poorly but it is obvious that they are trying to lower the costs. Baykar uses a "softer and more flexible" composite it seems. They also don't use any steel framing at all. A fully composite body has more flex than a steel/aluminum strenghtened one. MQ-9 however looks more "rigid" but it has VERY high cost compared to Akıncı. What is Baykar doing is not wrong thats just the way they do it. https://www.gannett-cdn.com/authori...3e8-1603-6b00-e053-0100007fa974-49203a99.jpeg View attachment 51407

After some usage you can also see defects on F-35 or F-22, indeed Baykar does the job for a lesser quality compared to TAI or LM, but compromising stealth for price is not something good

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603415587899772928

TÜBİTAK SAGE has officially announced the Doğan missile family developed for KIZILELMA.

 

[AWP]

After some usage you can also see defects on F-35 or F-22, indeed Baykar does the job for a lesser quality compared to TAI or LM, but compromising stealth for price is not something good

Exactly

We can't use the poor quality concept of Akinci on KE . Unlike Akinci , KE is a stealth drone and any small dent or defect or gap will compromise its stealthy feature .

 

[Siper>MMU]

GökDOĞAN and BozDOĞAN