TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Zoth]

The Kızılelma and the Anka-4 are very different platforms. It is understood that Kızılelma will focus on air-to-air missions with its canards.

Which exactly what is Anka-4 is designed/ used to be designed for(since they mention air-air defence, probably?), look at the above table that i sent, you probably did confuse Anka 3 with Anka 4.

 

[Armament]

What I don't understand is why do we need Anka-4 when we have Kızılelma? Do we have a lot of money to throw away?

I think it's because Baykar is a private company and TAI is state-owned. Kizılelma is more of an independent product and more internationally oriented. Meanwhile, Anka is made to meet the requirements of the Air Force. Furthermore, Anka-4 will most likely be stealthier and will have a higher quality of manufacturing, so don't mind it .

 

[what]

What I don't understand is why do we need Anka-4 when we have Kızılelma? Do we have a lot of money to throw away?

Because TAI and Baykar do compete with each other, and TAI will (rightfully) not give away that space and the potential loyal wingman project away without a fight.

If every KAAN gets 1-2 wingman, that would be at least 100-200 pieces and probably 3-4bln € worth of orders.

 

[Azeri441]

Because TAI and Baykar do compete with each other, and TAI will (rightfully) not give away that space and the potential loyal wingman project away without a fight.

If every KAAN gets 1-2 wingman, that would be at least 100-200 pieces and probably 3-4bln € worth of orders.


Edit: Sorry for derailing. Back on topic please.

NGAD is aiming for 3 to 4 wingmen

 

[Huelague]

What I don't understand is why do we need Anka-4 when we have Kızılelma? Do we have a lot of money to throw away?

Deep strike, heavy load capacity. It’s a stealth Bomber.

 

[uçuyorum]

Tusaş has unique capabilities that Baykar can't really match. I'm sure an Anka 4 would be more high end and have much better stealth. They did mention Anka 4 or next Anka at times in addition to smaller and larger variants of Anka 3 at times

 

[Kartal1]

Tusaş has unique capabilities that Baykar can't really match. I'm sure an Anka 4 would be more high end and have much better stealth. They did mention Anka 4 or next Anka at times in addition to smaller and larger variants of Anka 3 at times

I fully support this view.

As long as Baykar has the necessary means of financing their research as a private company, I am all for them doing whatever they do. Yesilelmas, TB-16s, satellites or whatever they want.

It is a good thing as more options and alternative concepts are on the table. Having the choice is a good thing.

Meanwhile TUSAS should be motivated to improve even further, knowing the competitive nature of all these unmanned projects. I think such a competition will be good for both companies and may the better product wins.

 

[Anmdt]

“If i recall correctly they have visited Baykar, or somehow got some technical briefing about TB3.”

I remember when that news came out and I admit I dismissed it right away not because i don’t believe in our hardware but because Japan’s given technological level. I assumed developing a UCAV would be within their capabilities.
But after they saw TB3 landing and taking off with ease, maybe they’ve seen enough and a low cost ready product might convince them.

All in all it’s good news.

Japan doesn't pursue exports when it comes to military hardware and i doubt if they would go for a full scale tactical uav adaptation in the army structure. Given all these, they may not willing to bear risks and investment costs for development of a drone that doesn't introduce any additional capability (with the F-35B in mind).

The root cause to acquire such a drone is operating a low-cost drone for simple tasks, and it should be available by means of reduced costs. They will get either Mojave or TB3 at the end. If TB3 proves a longer endurance with a dedicated sensor payload (in addition to EO) here, it is a win considering the acquisition, maintanance, footprint costs. Nobody cares about the total payload with such a drone, it is all about the endurance that allows take off from an LHD (DDH for Japan).

 

[Iskander]

Russian Center for Analysis of World Arms Trade

Distribution of market shares of new medium-altitude and high-altitude strategic UAVs in 2019-2026

Türkiye - 403 pieces, 61.5%
Tender
UAE
Spain
China
USA
Israel


Distribution of market shares of new medium-altitude and high-altitude strategic UAVs in 2019-2022

Türkiye
UAE
China
USA
Israel


Distribution of market shares of new medium-altitude and high-altitude strategic UAVs in 2023-2026

Türkiye
Tender
Spain
China
USA
Israel

https://armstrade.org/files/analytics/609.pdf

 

[Oublious]

Russian Center for Analysis of World Arms Trade

Distribution of market shares of new medium-altitude and high-altitude strategic UAVs in 2019-2026
View attachment 72289
Türkiye - 403 pieces, 61.5%
Tender
UAE
Spain
China
USA
Israel


Distribution of market shares of new medium-altitude and high-altitude strategic UAVs in 2019-2022
View attachment 72290
Türkiye
UAE
China
USA
Israel


Distribution of market shares of new medium-altitude and high-altitude strategic UAVs in 2023-2026
View attachment 72291
Türkiye
Tender
Spain
China
USA
Israel

https://armstrade.org/files/analytics/609.pdf

wtf is uae doing in the list?

 

[Kitra]

This is Anka 4.

Anka have been used for air-to-ground aircrafts such as Anka, Anka 2 (Aksungur), Anka 3. So, Anka 4 will most likely be an air-to-ground aircraft.

The question is if Anka 4 is the 3rd or 4th aircraft depicted in the second row. In other words, will Anka 4 be a larger dual engine variant of Anka 3 or will Anka 4 be a swarm capable variant of Anka 3 working together with aircrafts in the first row depicting air-to-air fighters such as Kaan.

Note that the first and second rows have swarms as last step, this means that both rows will merge in the end to form a strategic unit with mixed air-crafts such as Kaan 2/3/4, Anka 4, and Kizilelma 2/3/4 as a swarm at some point in time.

We already know that work on swarm tech is ongoing so i think Anka 4 is the last item in row 2 in the picture. A small posibility is off course a two engine variant of Anka 3 for higher payload.

I think that TIA will use KAAN as a name for figthers and Anka for bombers considering that they are very good and easy names marketable different regions.

 

[Iskander]

wtf is uae doing in the list?

UAE sold 2 UAVs.
More details in the chart.
(I couldn't translate from Russian)

What I'm more interested in is why other countries that are not on this chart? - Russia, Britain, Frangistan

 

[Yasar_TR]

First of all there is no Anka 4 in any public SSB document that I know of.
The only time Anka 4 was mentioned was few years ago when Anka 3 was being shown and Temel Kotil mentioned the name. He said “we are going to have a supersonic version of Anka 3 , we will have Anka 4.”

We know that Anka3 is a flying wing and it is not technically feasible to produce a supersonic flying wing.
But looking at the below picture, one can see that this plane with vertical rudders can be supersonic. But we don’t know if it is the Anka 4.

Baykar’s KE is a private concern’s investment to produce a UCAV that they can make some money on. Looking at it, one can see that it is not at the same level of engineering as what Tusas can produce. But it will serve a purpose and be just as effective. Also in all honesty, as far as UCAVs go they seem to be a step ahead. But a Tusas that manufactured supersonic flying jets like Hurjet and KAAN, is bound to become better at anything that Baykar can make. But will it be the right choice to use Tusas’s resources on simpler platforms?

Tusas is a state owned entity as per @TR_123456 ’s above post. Their brief is to produce for Turkish armed forces the newest and best technological marvels they can muster. So it is their duty to produce a platform that will outperform, if need be, a Kizilelma too.

 

[uçuyorum]

First of all there is no Anka 4 in any public SSB document that I know of.
The only time Anka 4 was mentioned was few years ago when Anka 3 was being shown and Temel Kotil mentioned the name. He said “we are going to have a supersonic version of Anka 3 , we will have Anka 4.”

We know that Anka3 is a flying wing and it is not technically feasible to produce a supersonic flying wing.
But looking at the below picture, one can see that this plane with vertical rudders can be supersonic. But we don’t know if it is the Anka 4.
View attachment 72299
Baykar’s KE is a private concern’s investment to produce a UCAV that they can make some money on. Looking at it, one can see that it is not at the same level of engineering as what Tusas can produce. But it will serve a purpose and be just as effective. Also in all honesty, as far as UCAVs go they seem to be a step ahead. But a Tusas that manufactured supersonic flying jets like Hurjet and KAAN, is bound to become better at anything that Baykar can make. But will it be the right choice to use Tusas’s resources on simpler platforms?

Tusas is a state owned entity as per @TR_123456 ’s above post. Their brief is to produce for Turkish armed forces the newest and best technological marvels they can muster. So it is their duty to produce a platform that will outperform, if need be, a Kizilelma too.

Whatever the naming of the next Tusaş UAV does not matter much, they aren't suddenly going to stop making new ones, it is one of their main exports as well, so there will be other Ankas and Anka 3 is unlikely to be the end of the stealthy turbofan powered line. So not having too many public mention of Anka 4 doesn't mean much, we know they are working on something along those lines, even if it takes time to materialize.