TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Ripley]

Greece probably already got its hands on Turkish technology from all those drones shot down over all those battlefields. Also, defence companies need money to develop new weapons; thus, they need to be sold so that new systems can replace the old ones. Turkey can not only keep advancing but deter new companies from emerging that can challenge Turkish companies.

Dude suppose they captured those downed drones. What can they do? Reverse engineer, manufacture them and supply to their army? And if they do that with what infrastructure of industry they will do it?

 

[boredaf]

Dude suppose they captured those downed drones. What can they do? Reverse engineer, manufacture them and supply to their army? And if they do that with what infrastructure of industry they will do it?

The only threat they posses is that they can bring their bigger brothers against us and that's just it. Without them, they'd get slapped like the spoiled kid they are, not even worthy of a punch.

We shouldn't look at this at what we might risk, but as what we might gain, and it isn't just some technology or money. Hard power is not the only way to get what you want, in fact, about 90% of the time its only use is to back your soft power. More European countries we develop ties with, the more power we are going to get. Italy isn't France or Greece, their goals don't always align with those two, especially in the Mediterranean. We already have a good relationship with Spain, and it has been getting better with UK, adding Italy to that list would be great for us.

 

[No Name]

Dude suppose they captured those downed drones. What can they do? Reverse engineer, manufacture them and supply to their army? And if they do that with what infrastructure of industry they will do it?

My point is that Turkey has nothing to fear, and all the technology is already out there for its enemies to examine if they want to, so it isn't this big thing.

 

[Ripley]

The only threat they posses is that they can bring their bigger brothers against us and that's just it. Without them, they'd get slapped like the spoiled kid they are, not even worthy of a punch.

We shouldn't look at this at what we might risk, but as what we might gain, and it isn't just some technology or money. Hard power is not the only way to get what you want, in fact, about 90% of the time its only use is to back your soft power. More European countries we develop ties with, the more power we are going to get. Italy isn't France or Greece, their goals don't always align with those two, especially in the Mediterranean. We already have a good relationship with Spain, and it has been getting better with UK, adding Italy to that list would be great for us.

Totally agree.
The gains. That’s how we should read it.
I believe most of us thrilled here with Hürjet and the recent Leonardo deal not only because we found some customers for our products but mostly because we are moving into European arms market through major European countries.
When you consider the recent political upheaval and facing their lackluster military for the first time in decades, the timing for Turkish industry to move in Europe is impeccable.

 

[KhanOfEurasia]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1898863110347264313

One has to ask whether weapon systems such as #Akinci, #Kizilelma or #TB3 with sensors and other electronics from @Leonardo_live could be used against #Turkey in the worst case scenario. Since @realDonaldTrump, the pressure on #EU heads of state to establish a common defense policy has been increasing.

If the aforementioned #UCAVs are used in #Italy and other EU states and Turkey is not included in the common defense policy, it would be conceivable that these drones could be used against Turkey in the event of a crisis in the #Aegean, #Cyprus, #Libya or #Syria!

 

[No Name]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1898863110347264313

Europeans already have their own defence industry, so denying them weapons will only lead them to develop them themselves and become competitors to the Turkish defence industry. This would lead to a small market share for Turkish companies, which in turn would lead to less funding for new projects, thus making Turkey's military outdated.

 

[2033]

Could the Leonardo-Baykar deal be an alternative to the EuroDrone project?

The Italian side has announced that the EuroDrone project will continue.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

the Italians did help us with the TAI T129 ATAK based on the Italian Agusta A129 Mangusta, and they had asked us to partner with them to develop their new AW249 Fenice (personally, I think that Turkey should have joined the project).

I know, but combat helicopters are not key weapon systems of the 21st century like autonomous or semi-autonomous Drones, which even perform some of the tasks of combat Aircraft.
If Italy had wanted to cooperate with the navy or in the Altay Tank for example, I would have agreed without hesitation.

As already mentioned, we were denied access to the key systems and they didn't want to cooperate either.
With drones we have the upper hand and suddenly they want to cooperate, we here in the forum are not a factor for the Turkish government and their strategy anyway and maybe it's true that we create dependencies so that they think twice about doing something to us. We should still be careful and not leave key subsystems to them. They would do the same!

 

[Turkic]

Could the Leonardo-Baykar deal be an alternative to the EuroDrone project?

The Italian side has announced that the EuroDrone project will continue.

I don't know the exact answer but the first TB-2 retired at 11th year. So if they're determined to acquire EuroDrone, they will still need a system until it's ready and Akıncı's are perfect fit. It can easily fill the gap of Reaper/EuroDrone and it can do more if they're aiming to change the airframe. It still has advantages like capability of launching ballistic/cruise missiles without the airframe is touched. Their retirements will perfectly fit for the production phase of EuroDrone program.

But I wouldn't choose EuroDrone over an equal/better system (Akıncı with a slight payload capacity and flight endurance upgrade) I've been using for a decade. However, European consortium programs usually bring forced purchases to pay program money back and keep the workforce going. What I would do is using Akıncı and keep upgrading it and then purchasing small numbers of EuroDrone's only for specific missions like EW to fulfill required purchases.

 

[Oublious]

 

[TR_123456]

We will probably join the GCAP(6th gen fighter jet) project he is talking about,the only country objecting to it would be Japan if not.

 

[Oublious]

We will probably join the GCAP(6th gen fighter jet) project he is talking about,the only country objecting to it would be Japan if not.

yeah faking Japan....

 

[IC3M@N FX]

If it is true, what strategic benefits does Japan derive from its refusal?
We have nothing to do with the country in terms of security or strategy that would make us a direct rival....
The country is literally at the ass end of the world and the volume of trade with Japan can probably be counted by hand.

 

[Shtr]

they are under the control of America. This means Israel can easily cause trouble.

 

[2033]

It's actually a great project. Multinational projects like Gcap can sometimes be frustrating. If they make demands such as dont intervening in Libya or withdrawing troops from Syria, the project could end up causing us more harm than good.

 

[Afif]

they are under the control of America.

They are not under control of America as much as one might think. The whole point of GCAP to part away from US for air superiority. Which was considering offering F35 modification right to Japan (kind of similar to Israel) if they choose American company to join their 6th gen fighter development. But they haven't.

GCAP doesn't offer enough leap in capability over KAAN to justify taking on all the headache that comes with joining the program imo. (It ain't NGAD or J36) Türkiye better off developing KAAN in blocks.

Plus they have already divided the workshare equally amone three countries (33.3%) I don't see them giving up on any.

 

[TR_123456]

They are not under control of America as much as one might think. The whole point of GCAP to part away from US for air superiority. Which was considering offering F35 modification right to Japan (kind of similar to Israel) if they choose American company to join their 6th gen fighter development. But they haven't.

GCAP doesn't offer enough leap in capability over KAAN to justify taking on all the headache that comes with joining the program imo. (It ain't NGAD or J36) Türkiye better off developing KAAN in blocks.

Plus they have already divided the workshare equally amone three countries (33.3%) I don't see them giving up on any.

Its not about the project itself,take another look from a different angle.
Ask the question,why would the UK not join the US project instead?

 

[Turkic]

Plus they have already divided the workshare equally amone three countries (33.3%) I don't see them giving up on any.

The UK ? May or may not depends on their win/loss calculations
Italy ? Close ties for decades
Japan ? Strategic ally

We have no direct conflict of interest with these 3 nations and I think neither Japan nor the UK would keep us away or listen to the Greek lobby after they faced a new world order created by Trump. Trump may go but the order may continue.

For those who'll bring Cyprus problem with the UK to me, there's nothing for the UK to see this as a problem at all. No one except us recognizes TRNC and we're not going to attack Southern Cyprus. They know they're not going to take us from the northern side. So it's not that big deal as the situation keeps stable.
--------
Can it be that Kaan will be the multi-purpose jet and the GCAP will be the next air-superiority fighter of TurAF ? I mean if TurAF is willing to become much bigger and considering GCAP ?

Another idea with a much lower possibility; the UK and Japan are at a higher level of allience with the US than Italy is. Would Italy want to have Kaan's instead of more F-35's until GCAP is ready by any chance ? They won't be guarranteed for full control on their F-35's ever, unlike Japan. And the UK wouldn't need such guarrantees. Italy is not always at the same perspective as the US and this is a harsh problem for them now. This idea was focusing on Italy but it is also possible (?) for the UK and Japan too if we give them some guarrantees and create closer "deep" ties.

All depends on their thoughts if everything will go back to what it was or will not after Trump goes. I wouldn't risk it (as Italy) because it seems like Trump ain't going anywhere till 2032. I wonder your thoughts on these.

 

[YeşilVatan]

To be frank, I don't think a dedicated killswitch exists for F-35s. Damn planes are so over-engineered and filled with future tech, 3 months of embargoes would ground %90 of the fleet.

But this debate about having true control over a 5th gen aircraft is an interesting conundrum. I think the solution would be to make "core" codes written jointly with but advanced coding seperate. Things that can compromise the aircraft are either; A) known to other parties in its entirety or B) completely secret to each consortium member. Cyber security suite can be seperate for example. Sure, this approach may require more work and resources, but it would end the killswitch debate.

If there is a sliver of possibility of partnering with Europeans on KAAN, this would be the best way to go at it. This doesn't eliminate the classic german moves like embargoing parts, but it would ameliorate the distrust a lot. And let's be honets to ourselves, we have every reason not to trust Europeans.

 

[uçuyorum]

To be frank, I don't think a dedicated killswitch exists for F-35s. Damn planes are so over-engineered and filled with future tech, 3 months of embargoes would ground %90 of the fleet.

But this debate about having true control over a 5th gen aircraft is an interesting conundrum. I think the solution would be to make "core" codes written jointly with but advanced coding seperate. Things that can compromise the aircraft are either; A) known to other parties in its entirety or B) completely secret to each consortium member. Cyber security suite can be seperate for example. Sure, this approach may require more work and resources, but it would end the killswitch debate.

If there is a sliver of possibility of partnering with Europeans on KAAN, this would be the best way to go at it. This doesn't eliminate the classic german moves like embargoing parts, but it would ameliorate the distrust a lot. And let's be honets to ourselves, we have every reason not to trust Europeans.

I think the doubt alone is enough