TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[begturan]

Yes, the TF6000/TF10,000 makes sense for Kızılelma, but if we want to build a true unmanned combat aircraft, I think we'll need two 20,000 lb engines, as 10,000 lb isn't suitable for heavy loads. Do you have any estimates on this?

Baykar Engines has launched a project for a 20,000 lb turbofan engine. In this case, the actual target might be 20,000 lb. The real question is, will a single engine be sufficient, or will two 20,000 lb engines be sufficient?

An unmanned combat aircraft with such engine power could undertake many critical, high-risk missions, ensure the safety of our pilots, and take Türkiye to the top of the air dominance ladder.

 

[Zafer]

Yes, the TF6000/TF10,000 makes sense for Kızılelma, but if we want to build a true unmanned combat aircraft, I think we'll need two 20,000 lb engines, as 10,000 lb isn't suitable for heavy loads. Do you have any estimates on this?

Baykar Engines has launched a project for a 20,000 lb turbofan engine. In this case, the actual target might be 20,000 lb. The real question is, will a single engine be sufficient, or will two 20,000 lb engines be sufficient?

An unmanned combat aircraft with such engine power could undertake many critical, high-risk missions, ensure the safety of our pilots, and take Türkiye to the top of the air dominance ladder.

Once you make everything else on the plane ready to go a new engine can be a new version of the same plane without much development time to spend. If Baykar makes the ideal engine for the plane it can finally be the main configuration. With several engine options it will be possible to deliver different quality Kızılelma versions including possible non stealth and stealth versions.

 

[Strong AI]

While Kızılelma needs the TF10000 engine to attain its designed capabilities the TF6000 engine only lacks the afterburner power that the TF10000 engine offers. AB is used in rare situations, this means that the TF6000 can still do a job if you do not foresee a high power requirement in a given mission. I can imagine Kızılelma flying with the TF6000 engine which is supposed to be in the preparation for flight state as of now. If the TF6000 engine becomes flyable a good amount of time before the TF10000 engine it maybe worthwhile to make a vesion of the Kızılelma to fly with the lesser engine. The TF6000 can be lighter giving more flight time for the mission. Two versions please.

Yeah but TEI mentioned several times they are now prioritizing TF10000 over TF6000 because of KE. So it looks like KE will never use TF6000.

 

[OPTIMUS]

What has been occupying me for a long time with Baykar regarding engine construction is how they imagine building an engine from scratch without experience and know-how. Also, they have set the measuring plate very high: a jet engine with an afterburner. The whole thing seems very, very questionable to me. What comes to mind: they are up to something we don’t know, or they have acquired quite a bit from the Ukrainians (engineering, technical knowledge, etc.) with money.

A jet engine with an afterburner... requires a hell of a lot. Even upgrading the TF6000 to the TF10000 involves a great deal of knowledge and work. Things are not as simple as in YouTube videos.

 

[Zafer]

Yeah but TEI mentioned several times they are now prioritizing TF10000 over TF6000 because of KE. So it looks like KE will never use TF6000.

Even when it is not a priority if there is a difference of more than a year to service you want the early one to be in service rather than waiting for the better one and it can be a different product too.

 

[Zafer]

What has been occupying me for a long time with Baykar regarding engine construction is how they imagine building an engine from scratch without experience and know-how. Also, they have set the measuring plate very high: a jet engine with an afterburner. The whole thing seems very, very questionable to me. What comes to mind: they are up to something we don’t know, or they have acquired quite a bit from the Ukrainians (engineering, technical knowledge, etc.) with money.

A jet engine with an afterburner... requires a hell of a lot. Even upgrading the TF6000 to the TF10000 involves a great deal of knowledge and work. Things are not as simple as in YouTube videos.

They can poach some good engineers or outsource some of the development and order some parts fom like TEI, why not.

 

[Sanchez]

HISTORIC TRIAL FOR BAYRAKTAR KIZILELMA: LOCKED ONTO AN F-16, SCORED A DIRECT HIT IN SIMULATED FIRE!​

Türkiye’s first unmanned fighter aircraft, Bayraktar KIZILELMA, has carried out yet another historic test in the sky. In the test conducted with the participation of two F-16 fighter jets of the Turkish Air Force, KIZILELMA locked onto the target F-16 using the national AESA Radar MURAD, and achieved a direct hit in its simulated fire test with the national air-to-air missile GÖKDOĞAN.​

Taking off from the AKINCI Flight Training and Test Center in Çorlu, Tekirdağ, the national unmanned fighter aircraft carried out formation flying with the F-16s and validated the integration of the national radar and munitions during its 1-hour-45-minute flight at an average altitude of 15,000 feet. With this flight, Bayraktar KIZILELMA’s total test flight time has surpassed 55 hours.

Two F-16 fighter jets belonging to the Turkish Air Force participated in the “Bayraktar KIZILELMA – GÖKDOĞAN Armed Flight and MURAD AESA Radar Performance Test.” One of the F-16s performed close formation flying with Bayraktar KIZILELMA, demonstrating the platform’s compatibility with manned fighter aircraft, while the other F-16 acted as the “target aircraft” within the test scenario. During the test, Bayraktar KIZILELMA detected the target F-16 at a distance of 30 miles using the MURAD AESA Radar developed by ASELSAN and locked onto the target. It then executed a simulated electronic firing using the GÖKDOĞAN Beyond-Visual-Range Air-to-Air Missile produced by TÜBİTAK SAGE and carried under its wing. In the simulation, Bayraktar KIZILELMA successfully neutralized the highly maneuverable F-16 target with a virtual direct hit, marking a major step forward for air-to-air combat capability.

One of the most critical phases of the test involved evaluating the communication infrastructure between the aircraft, radar, and missile. After locking onto the target F-16, Bayraktar KIZILELMA transmitted real-time target, position, and velocity data obtained from the MURAD AESA Radar seamlessly to the GÖKDOĞAN missile carried under its wing. The successful validation of this data link between Bayraktar KIZILELMA and the munition represents a significant milestone in the unmanned fighter aircraft’s capability to neutralize beyond-visual-range (BVR) targets.

During this historic flight over the skies of Tekirdağ, three distinct and challenging test scenarios were executed simultaneously with success. The F-16 formation flight—which demonstrated the capability for joint operations with manned fighter aircraft—offered insights into future air-combat concepts. The aerodynamic and avionic compatibility of the platform was verified through the GÖKDOĞAN Beyond-Visual-Range Air-to-Air Missile carried under the wing. In the same flight, the detection, tracking, lock-on, and data-transfer capabilities of the national MURAD AESA Radar—which was activated for the test—were also proven under demanding conditions.

HISTORIC TRIAL FOR BAYRAKTAR KIZILELMA: LOCKED ONTO AN F-16, SCORED A DIRECT HIT IN SIMULATED FIRE!

Türkiye’s first unmanned fighter aircraft, Bayraktar KIZILELMA, has carried out yet another historic test in the sky. In the test conducted with the participation of two F-16 fighter jets of the Turkish Air Force, KIZILELMA locked onto the target F-16 using the national AESA Radar MURAD, and...

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[Yasar_TR]

What has been occupying me for a long time with Baykar regarding engine construction is how they imagine building an engine from scratch without experience and know-how. Also, they have set the measuring plate very high: a jet engine with an afterburner. The whole thing seems very, very questionable to me. What comes to mind: they are up to something we don’t know, or they have acquired quite a bit from the Ukrainians (engineering, technical knowledge, etc.) with money.

A jet engine with an afterburner... requires a hell of a lot. Even upgrading the TF6000 to the TF10000 involves a great deal of knowledge and work. Things are not as simple as in YouTube videos.

I fully agree with everything you say. Turbofan engine is one of the hardest technologies one can acquire. If you are building a 6000/10000lbf dry/wet thrust engine you are probably at the first steps. If you are envisaging building a 12000/20000lbf dry/wet thrust engine, then you are half way up the steps as achievement goes. If you are aiming to build a 20000/30000lbf dry/wet engine then you are aiming for the pinnacle of turbofans.

The bigger the diameter and the higher the thrust level gets, then the more difficult it becomes to achieve success. This has a lot to do with engineering and material science requirements of bigger engines. It is a fact that an average and optimistic 10year time period that you have to allow yourself to achieve your goal when building a new and “modern” turbofan with all the bells and whistles is normal.

Baykar is aiming for a 12000/20000lbf dry/wet turbofan engine. To do justice to a stealthy jet like KE, they need an engine that is stealthy too (like tf6000) with modern technologies like blisks applied to that engine.

Ukranian engines were produced with almost obsolete Soviet technology that did not even have single crystal turbine blades. Also the Motor Sich factory that manufactured their engines never built any fighter jet engines more than 6000/10000lbf dry/wet thrust. To expect anything more from that factory or it’s broken up/leftover staff, is being far too optimistic.

If you give the job to a reputable engine manufacturer to build engines for you to your own specifications, then they become prohibitively expensive. (Israel’s F124 Honeywell engines or UAE’s F110GE132 engines). So logical route for the sort out quantities Baykar will need, will have to be engines produced in house or make use of TEI facilities.
Even though Piaggio manufactures engine parts for large engine manufacturers, to be able to manufacture a complete turbofan is a different thing altogether.

Selcuk Bayraktar is a clever guy. He knows everything that is said here. To come up and say that they are going to have an engine in 5-6 years is either a publicity stunt or they have a factory stashed up somewhere no one knows about. Or he is going to use TEI facilities to develop something after TF10000.
His best bet would be to build a twin engined version of KE with twin TF10000 engines.