Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[GoatsMilk]

These quadcopters and fpv drones proved themselves as powerful tools. At Eastern regions they are much more effective and caused much more havoc than TB-2
But I think we should get some lessons from that. These are extremely dangerous weapons especially soldiers without anti drone systems especially for our soldiers fighting in the mountains.

i've been of the opinion for some time that armed drones should also being getting smaller and smaller. The drive to create bigger and better drones is important, but in airspace that is contested smaller drones have more utility.

 

[Gary]

You need to relax, you created your own argument that has nothing to do with what was being said and then used your own answer to call everyone dummies. clam down.

So relaxed I find it amusing that you have habits of directly addressing my opinion without having the courage to press the reply button.

 

[UkroTurk]

So relaxed I find it amusing that you have habits of directly addressing my opinion without having the courage to press the reply button.

Just not to polute here with your off-topics.

 

[UkroTurk]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1663448558224171010

 

[GoatsMilk]

So relaxed I find it amusing that you have habits of directly addressing my opinion without having the courage to press the reply button.

privately message me your concerns, lets not derail this thread because of your personal issues.

 

[Gary]

Just not to polute here with your off-topics.

How is it off topics when my post has something to do with people's whining about Russia's conduct in Ukraine ?

You call it off-topic, I call it rationale.

 

[Woland]

Air power 101 for dummies and why people should stop whinning about Russians bombing some cities.

While Douhet may sound narrow-minded, he was not just describing the benefits of airpower but also working to sway the public, civilian policymakers, and military leadership towards a wholly new line of thought regarding war. Douhet laid a foundation for employment doctrine with several major tenets that while not a guarantee for war, have influenced airpower and warfare ever since. The first tenet included the combination of high explosive, incendiary, and gas bombs with the utility of the latter coming from its ability to prevent emergency responders from assisting after an attack. Targeting has always been an essential element of airpower doctrine and Douhet felt that ​

​

“In general, aerial offensives will be directed against such targets at peacetime industrial and commercial establishments; important buildings, private and public; transportation arteries and centers; and certain designated areas of civilian population as well.”​

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==========​

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Mitchell does not focus on the specifics of technology such as units of bombardment or Battleplanes in his major work as Douhet did, but his major concepts are: ​

1. An independent air force, run by airmen, is a necessary component of airpower.
2. Strategic bombardment of vital industrial and population centers will eliminate the enemy’s ability to make war

​

​

https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/AUPress/Books/B_0160_DOUHET_THE_COMMAND_OF_THE_AIR.PDF

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Douhet clearly knows something people don't and he's Italian, not Russian
Mitchell also knows something...something about the use of air power and he's American, not Russian

Both are father of modern air power.

In the the Balkan intervention, Iraq-Iran, Persian gulf 1.0 and 2.0 and even as recent as Armenia-Azerbaijan war, the use of airpower to "terrorize" the population has and always will remain the same.

Airpower is always about achieveing punishing blow in the tactical and strategic levels.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/balkans/stories/belgrade052599.htm

Gulf War air campaign - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

War of the Cities - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Second Nagorno-Karabakh War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Some can be fooled by by the sway of public opinion, I refuse to.

As I said, the difference between Russia and everyone else is just happens to be the Russians aren't as good as we used to think when it comes to the application of air power.

I'll once again engage in your whataboutism. Billy Mitchell was born in 1879, Giulio Douhet in 1869. Both men died even before WWII. This is who you look to for guidance? The world has since moved on. Of the four wars you listed only two involved what you call the hypocritical West, yet coincidentally both of your examples prove the opposite point:

1. Gulf War air campaign - 1 month
10,000–12,000 Iraqi military killed
2,000–3,000 Iraqi civilians killed

2. Operation Allied Force (Kosovo War) - 2 months
1000 Serb military killed
Human Rights Watch estimate: 489–528 civilians
Yugoslav estimate: 1,200–2,000 civilians killed

So what terrorizing are you talking about? In Mariupol alone, which had a pre-war population of 450,000, some estimates of civilians killed go as high as 100,000 (Timothy Snyder from Yale), but even conservative estimates are over 20,000.

 

[Gary]

I'll once again engage in your whataboutism. Billy Mitchell was born in 1879, Giulio Douhet in 1869. Both men died even before WWII. This is who you look to for guidance? The world has since moved on. Of the four wars you listed only two involved what you call the hypocritical West, yet coincidentally both of your examples prove the opposite point:

1. Gulf War air campaign - 1 month
10,000–12,000 Iraqi military killed
2,000–3,000 Iraqi civilians killed

2. Operation Allied Force (Kosovo War) - 2 months
1000 Serb military killed
Human Rights Watch estimate: 489–528 civilians
Yugoslav estimate: 1,200–2,000 civilians killed

So what terrorizing are you talking about? In Mariupol alone, which had a pre-war population of 450,000, some estimates of civilians killed go as high as 100,000 (Timothy Snyder from Yale), but even conservative estimates are over 20,000.

You've just made your first wrong move, but I'll address this in the geopolitical thread. Because of the constant whinning.

Wait

 

[Ecderha]

Ukraine drone just Tested putin's soldier helmet armor

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1663794905473228800

 

[Test7]

Dear members, everyone can express their opinion freely. even if it contradicts your ideas.

 

[Dmitry]

THE THIRD ASSAULT BRIGADE ASSAULTS THE OCCUPIERS IN BAHMUT

Very interesting moments in the video: the drone operator fully controls the movement, indicates and corrects where to throw grenades and notifies the location of the enemy

 

[GoatsMilk]

I'll once again engage in your whataboutism. Billy Mitchell was born in 1879, Giulio Douhet in 1869. Both men died even before WWII. This is who you look to for guidance? The world has since moved on. Of the four wars you listed only two involved what you call the hypocritical West, yet coincidentally both of your examples prove the opposite point:

1. Gulf War air campaign - 1 month
10,000–12,000 Iraqi military killed
2,000–3,000 Iraqi civilians killed

2. Operation Allied Force (Kosovo War) - 2 months
1000 Serb military killed
Human Rights Watch estimate: 489–528 civilians
Yugoslav estimate: 1,200–2,000 civilians killed

So what terrorizing are you talking about? In Mariupol alone, which had a pre-war population of 450,000, some estimates of civilians killed go as high as 100,000 (Timothy Snyder from Yale), but even conservative estimates are over 20,000.

His argument was misplaced.

For me or any other individual or non state actor to call the Russian operations acts of terrorism is quite reasonable.

I presume he came at it from the perspective that the western governments calling Russia a terrorist state was hypocritical and to a degree he has a point. But that point has nothing to do with a Turkish poster or me, or you calling Russian acts terrorism, because they are evil, despicable terrorist actions.

Many of us have lived through wars that the UK, USA, France engaged in together based on complete lies and then when they went in they turned nations upside down, iraq, afghanistan and libya are recent examples. We never got the same scale of outrage against these nations that we get against Russia. And none of these wars were about freedom or democracy, they were about power, control and pillage.

As a Turkish person living in england, the english because of their media see erdogan as some terrible despot dictator, but if we take the last 50 years of geopolitical adventurism, France and England have been far more deadly and destructive then Turkiye has been. But these countries are presented as beacons of the free world. We don't perceive england or france to be as dangerous as Turkiye, but they have been and continue to be.

Anyway long story short it doesnt matter if the entire world does the same thing in war, its still evil terroristic bullshit. Its not argument to claim because other nations have done similar things in history, that today what Russia does is justified.

 

[Relic]

New military aid package for Ukraine announced by Germany . Contents of the package include...

66x Fuchs APCs
64x Bandvagn 206 IMVs
2x 8x8 HX81 tractors, with 3 semi-trailers
7x TheMIS UGV tracked and remote-controlled IF
Undisclosed quantity of ammunition for Leopard 1 MBTs.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1664022196056907778

 

[contricusc]

As a Turkish person living in england, the english because of their media see erdogan as some terrible despot dictator, but if we take the last 50 years of geopolitical adventurism, France and England have been far more deadly and destructive then Turkiye has been. But these countries are presented as beacons of the free world. We don't perceive england or france to be as dangerous as Turkiye, but they have been and continue to be.

I think this has to do with incendiary statements made by Erdogan, such as coming in one night and invading a Greek island. Such statements create the impression of a dangerous leader, and in extension country.

While in the past 50 years the UK and France have been involved in more conflicts than Turkey, the perception of how dangerous a country is rests on the political positions and actions of the very recent leaders. You no longer have Tony Blair as a prime minister in UK, and the more recent leaders (Sunak, Johnson, Cameron) have not been involved in military adventurism or threatening declarations.

This is the big advantage of democracies that change leaders frequently. Old leaders no longer have any power and when they are gone, their bad legacy no longer taints the country. A democratic country has fresh starts every few years when it comes to its leadership, so it holds less baggage than dictatorships that have the same leaders for decades.

 

[Gary]

His argument was misplaced.

For me or any other individual or non state actor to call the Russian operations acts of terrorism is quite reasonable.

I presume he came at it from the perspective that the western governments calling Russia a terrorist state was hypocritical and to a degree he has a point. But that point has nothing to do with a Turkish poster or me, or you calling Russian acts terrorism, because they are evil, despicable terrorist actions.

Many of us have lived through wars that the UK, USA, France engaged in together based on complete lies and then when they went in they turned nations upside down, iraq, afghanistan and libya are recent examples. We never got the same scale of outrage against these nations that we get against Russia. And none of these wars were about freedom or democracy, they were about power, control and pillage.

As a Turkish person living in england, the english because of their media see erdogan as some terrible despot dictator, but if we take the last 50 years of geopolitical adventurism, France and England have been far more deadly and destructive then Turkiye has been. But these countries are presented as beacons of the free world. We don't perceive england or france to be as dangerous as Turkiye, but they have been and continue to be.

Anyway long story short it doesnt matter if the entire world does the same thing in war, its still evil terroristic bullshit. Its not argument to claim because other nations have done similar things in history, that today what Russia does is justified.

Ahh here comes the coward who can't even press the reply button. misplaced ? Which part is misplaced ? The only reason you and your brigade calls it terrorism is the fact that you have a particular disdain for that country. If your country or any of the country you sympathize with does the same, that will not be a problem.

The thing is the very manual of airpower and its applications are derived from people's like Douhet and Mitchells thought, the very basic standard of which your country air force and every other are built upon. Simply because when airpower was introduced, due to technical limitaitions unless you're US, UK, France , Italy and Germany every other country is mostly watchers and onlookers, that means the science of airpower itself is based on these people thoughts and the country which they served and other simply adopted it. Yes its very much an attack on civilian and intentional, but that's war and that's how everybody conducts one. Irrelevant of what color the country is.

Russia doing it is simply them and their effort of following this manual, simple as that. If following that manual is terrorism, then every air force in existence are terroristic in nature,You don't like that ? that's your problem pal.

 

[Barry]

Do you actually read anything anyone writes

 

[Ecderha]

putin army hitting russian city in russia and killing russian citizens.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1664225464058015746

putin army losing against russians freedom legion in russia

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1664156323691282435

 

[Ecderha]

The Kerch Bridge connecting russia with ocupaied Crimea is only 5 years old .
It is aligns with the quality we are used to see from russian origin
Corrupt regime and incompetent managers whose primary skill is Rear-Rissing while selling half of the materials on the Black Market.
Result is that many bridge legs are already with cracks

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1664222701215522821

 

[Relic]

USA has purchased an undisclosed number of Gepard anti-aircraft systems from Jordan . The systems formerly belonged to the Dutch, who sold 60 of them to the Jordainians. The contract value is $118 million USD and is thought be for between 40-60 of the units.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1664251922537226240

As much as purchases such as these are helpful, especially against drones, I'd rather see countries like Canada , who can afford such a purchase, but who don't have a ton of our own military supplies to spare, purchase these items from 3rd parties, allowing the United States to focus their support on thr key items that only they have an abundance of. For example, for $118 milli8lon USD, USA could have probably sent an additional 40 Bradley M2 ODS IFVs, including shipping costs and costs associated with training Ukrainians in Germany.

 

[Nilgiri]

BREAKING:

Poland decides to strengthen Moldova, helping it defend against a potential Russian coup d’etat.

Poland has decided to donate a huge shipment (2 Hercules planes and 4 CASA planes) of weapons, ammunition and other equipment) to the Moldovan Ministry of Interior.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1664216695827824640