Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[UkroTurk]

Is this the first bomber to be destroyed?

No there were several.

 

[UkroTurk]

Zelensky with F-16

 

[blackjack]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1693221907846312268

 

[blackjack]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1693220774159487308

 

[blackjack]

@Gary A truly a match up for the ages!
F-16 VS SU-30/SU-35!🫨

hope it happens without Ukrainian runways hosting F-16s get bombed by drones or missiles. want to see Su-27s fight them as well.

 

[UkroTurk]

Surprise

 

[Slayer]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1679269466725597184

Nuclear threat - talk about disproportional answer which displays the Russian's snowballing despair.

 

[blackjack]

Nuclear threat - talk about disproportional answer which displays the Russian's snowballing despair.

only if NATO countries host the F-16s instead of Ukraine's airspace. Though I am curious how these early block F-16s would do if the latest block F-16I got shot down by a syrian S-200 before. I hope Ukraine gets alot of glidebombs and air to ground missiles so the Russians can finally use the 8th Combined Arms Army HQ from the east being sent to the frontlines and the 1st guards tank army being sent from luhansk to the frontline. https://militaryland.net/maps/deployment-map/

I think everyone on this forum got tired about Wunderwaffle weapons game changing the battlefield.

 

[MaciekRS]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1693220774159487308

That is actually funny post from you
10 000 ppl die and no one in Poland noticed it

 

[Ecderha]

How is started... Dream

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1693332407024328892

How it is going... Real thing

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1693320871882948669

 

[uçuyorum]

only if NATO countries host the F-16s instead of Ukraine's airspace. Though I am curious how these early block F-16s would do if the latest block F-16I got shot down by a syrian S-200 before. I hope Ukraine gets alot of glidebombs and air to ground missiles so the Russians can finally use the 8th Combined Arms Army HQ from the east being sent to the frontlines and the 1st guards tank army being sent from luhansk to the frontline. https://militaryland.net/maps/deployment-map/

I think everyone on this forum got tired about Wunderwaffle weapons game changing the battlefield.

You need the total package with a bit of everything properly, but adding any significant capability you didn't have before could briefly feel like a wunderwaffe moment.

The f16s being transferred to ukraine are block 20 MLU, apparently when F35 got delayed they decided to do a modernization, they have IFF and radar upgrades etc. Some avionic changes

 

[Ecderha]

Big ruZZian cope caged trash tanks try to attack Ukraine army position.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1693343645913501719

all dead

 

[Ecderha]

Vodka did it again.
This is another one

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1693340669006557627

 

[Gary]

Photos of a Tu-22M3 bomber destroyed yesterday after a drone strike on a military airfield in Soltsy, Novgorod Region, appeared on the network.
View attachment 60246
View attachment 60247

The Russian MoD declare this as "damaged" a day ago lol

@Gary A truly a match up for the ages!
F-16 VS SU-30/SU-35!🫨

An F-16MLU could hold its own against the Su-30/35. But note that Russian VKS has a more complete ecosystem with AWACS.

Imo, a special SBU operation will be needed to neutralize Russia's A-50U fleet on the ground so that the F-16 could fight head on in a more equal terms.

There's also a need to find a way to disrupt Russian fighter jet production, because they keep producing Su-35 at a faster pace than Ukraine's own procurement of F-16.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1691335378324615168

 

[UkroTurk]

The first six F-16 aircraft from Denmark will arrive in Ukraine closer to the New Year, the Prime Minister of the country said.

Next year, it is planned to send eight more aircraft to Ukraine, and the remaining five in 2025.

 

[blackjack]

An F-16MLU could hold its own against the Su-30/35.

Gary....I know that you and goatsmilk are one of the brightest people on this forum but I would suggest looking at the model and year of the F-16s getting provided and thats not counting the IADS that is more powerful than this.

 

[UkroTurk]

Senior Russian security officials are pushing Putin for changing military leadership, declaring martial law and beginning a general mobilization. This is reported by Bloomberg, citing sources.

 

[Gary]

I would suggest looking at the model and year of the F-16s getting provided and thats not counting the IADS that is more powerful than this.

The gist of your argument has always been revolving around the idea of IF <insert advanced weapons> can be defeated by <insert old weapons> then <insert advanced weapons> will have no chance against <insert newer weapons>.

You do realize that older models F-16 has proved its mettle against arguably a more sophisticated and agile missile than the S-200 no ? During DS '91, Maj. Emmett Tullia dodged 6 Iraqi SA-3 back to back in short tempo

And that's what ? A Block 30 F-16, the F-16 donated to Ukraine is btw the MLU version, that's more closer to a block 40/42

Using your logic the Su-35 is a complete rubbish, notorious for getting shot down early in the Ukraine war, back when Ukraine's IADS is composed of old S-300P, BUK M1 and SA-8 Geckos. Now that Ukraine has access to PAC-series, NASAMS, etc naturally it would be even m ore difficult for the Su-35...using your logic btw.

 

[blackjack]

The gist of your argument has always been revolving around the idea of IF <insert advanced weapons> can be defeated by <insert old weapons> then <insert advanced weapons> will have no chance against <insert newer weapons>.

You do realize that older models F-16 has proved its mettle against arguably a more sophisticated and agile missile than the S-200 no ? During DS '91, Maj. Emmett Tullia dodged 6 Iraqi SA-3 back to back in short tempo

And that's what ? A Block 30 F-16, the F-16 donated to Ukraine is btw the MLU version, that's more closer to a block 40/42

Using your logic the Su-35 is a complete rubbish, notorious for getting shot down early in the Ukraine war, back when Ukraine's IADS is composed of old S-300P, BUK M1 and SA-8 Geckos. Now that Ukraine has access to PAC-series, NASAMS, etc naturally it would be even m ore difficult for the Su-35...using your logic btw.

Look Garry I want to be sure we are on the same page here. Those are block 20 F-16s https://gagadget.com/en/298075-ukra...ty-to-launch-air-to-air-missiles-and-improve/ they are not F-16Vs with SABR radars think of it as a goodwill gesture of giving spare change than something game changing they needed to get rid of those anyways for some F-35s. If I am using google correctly block 20s use pulse radars that see fighter aircrafts like from 50kms away. Literally any russian aircraft that uses a phase array radar from su-27, su-30, su-35, su-57, mig-29, mig-31 and mig-35 would be enough with the soon to be Su-70 and Su-75s.

Even if they did happen to get the latest F-16 there are like 130 mig-31BMs with radars that can search range of 400 km for a 19–20 m2 RCS target, track 24 targets at once, engaging six or see a 5m2 target from 282kms away. it wouldnt even matter if the radars on the F-16 were more superior because ukrainians dont have air to air missiles that outrange the R-33 or R-37. And even if there was a shortage of those missiles the R-77 depending on variant cant still score a kill depending what AIM-120s they will be equipped with. Even the N011 Bars or one of the latest Zhuk radars would be enough without the need of using Zaslon-M or Irbis if the longest range missiles of the F-16s dont exceed its adversary aircraft. The current radar specs for the block 20 keep giving me 50-60km ranges for fighter size aircrafts https://www.key.aero/forum/modern-military-aviation/90089-fighter-radars-and-rcss

I cant even tell if that is a Su-30 or Su-35 in your picture but I heard no news of ukraine using any aircraft in their offensive, maybe they will do it this time with F-16s? I cant make any judgement on SAMs since S-300, S-350, S-400, S-500 among other new short range SAMs have not been used other than an S-200, SA-3 are not long range like S-200. Even than the F-16s will be limited to just Ukraine's airspace being prone to missile or drone strikes in runways because launching an aircraft from a NATO airspace to Russia sounds like a bad idea as much as lobbing a ballistic missile to another country.

 

[Gary]

Look Garry I want to be sure we are on the same page here. Those are block 20 F-16s https://gagadget.com/en/298075-ukra...ty-to-launch-air-to-air-missiles-and-improve/ they are not F-16Vs with SABR radars think of it as a goodwill gesture of giving spare change than something game changing they needed to get rid of those anyways for some F-35s. If I am using google correctly block 20s use pulse radars that see fighter aircrafts like from 50kms away.

Those are MLU enhanced bird, they could either be a Block 5,10,15,20 in their pre-MLU block. MLU themselves differs from operators, for example Indonesian APG-68v9 equipped Block 15 F-16 MLU are actually closer to Block 52+ minus the engine. The Dutch and Danish MLU F-16 are closer to Block 40 in some regards and are equipped with APG-66v(2), not the best Western radar out there but adequate for the job.

Your source of radar range comes from games. According to Forecast International, the APG-66v1 has ~48nm detection range (not track) and we know the APG-66v(2) has an improved 25% detection range than that of v1, so that's an estimated range of 60 nm or 100km. Being able to do TWS scanning of 10 and tracking 6 and simultaneous launch of all 6 AMRAAM, pretty good for a radar from 1983 in comparison to the latest Russian IRBIS-E (2007) that has a capability of around 30 track and 8 launch. Its not like the IRBIS-E being the most advanced Russian radar is impressive, it once detected 3 target from 268 km but only tracked one of it from around only 100km

One important features of MLU birds is the Bird slicer IFF, not found in either the Block 25/30/40, will help them a lot in BVR combat by being able to classify friend or foe from 100nm or 185km.

Which then could be exploited by the AMRAAM, a much more advanced and mature missile than the standard R-77 of the VKS in a long range engagement. Even better if the US would willingly donate latest C8 or even D variant AMRAAM (reported to be in excess of 200+km).
Cockpit wise the MLU are similar to Block 40 and 50, but MLU bird uses color display. So these MLU birds are quite capable being a throw away weapons that's on their way to retirement until F-35 arrives.

Off course there's no denying that overall the Su-35 and MiG-31BM are a more superior aircraft by raw power and some exotic armaments like the R-37, not to mention Ukraine's lack of force multiplier like AWACS, tankers etc. But on its own and with the correct tactics the F-16 could hold and even win, UAF only needs to figure it out without AWACS.

Don't say no yet, in the Iran-Iraq war Iraqi Mirage F-1EQs scored multiple hits against far more superior F-14A using proper tactics like the Giraffe maneuver. The technological difference between this MLU birds are not as extreme as the F-14 and Mirage F1.
Maybe in the long run NATO would like to donate some of their AWACS to support these MLU birds and makes them operate more effectively ? Who knows.

Literally any russian aircraft that uses a phase array radar from su-27, su-30, su-35, su-57, mig-29, mig-31 and mig-35 would be enough with the soon to be Su-70 and Su-75s.

I've given examples on Russia's radar performance above, not very impressive I must say. MiG-29/Su-27 doesn't have any phased array radar, the SU-57 is only in its early operational use and the Su-75 is at the moment a pet project.

. Even than the F-16s will be limited to just Ukraine's airspace being prone to missile or drone strikes in runways because launching an aircraft from a NATO airspace to Russia sounds like a bad idea as much as lobbing a ballistic missile to another country.

You have been theorizing this for ages now...with no visible effects. The Russian air force still fail to prove that I'm wrong and this post is from January 2022.

Although I'm referring to NATO, Ukraine is trained by NATO so by extension, if you can't ground the UAF on their airfield, the chance of doing such with actual NATO is slimmer.

Moving on to a supposed vulnerability of airbases to ballistic missiles. Contrary to popular beliefs, Airpower remains the best way to counter ballistic missiles. In an actual combat, the movement of a battalion of lets say an Iskander ballistic missile battalion WILL be noticed by superior NATO ISR and intelligence.

If the commanders sees an imminent missile strike on its airbase, they could order a scramble. Remember that most ballistic missiles uses GPS/INS guidance that means the coordinate are uploaded before the launch. if in those hour or so when the the coordinates are uploaded the fighters are no longer present it would be no use. At best those launches are a complete waste of missiles.

Now Just to inform fighter jets could scramble in just mere 5 minutes.

Ready Five, also referred to as Alert Five in the film Top Gun, is a condition of high alert for aircraft crews on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier, in which they are ready to launch within five minutes. Fighter aircraft are placed on the steam catapult complete with flight crew, armament, and fuel, ready to defend the carrier battle group from any unforeseen threat.

Ready 5 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org