Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[Agha Sher]

First F-16 destroyed. Ukr media announced the death of a F-16 pilot. He was killed while performing a combat mission.

Edit:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1828823292167508297

 

[contricusc]

Contricusc, the USSR dissolved from within, under peaceful circumstances.

Surely you grasp the difference to what you're proposing, right? Like, it's coming as bad-faith discussion with you at this point, seems the other guy's probably right about you.

While the circumstances were different, it doesn’t mean the outcome can’t be the same. Think about the rebelion in Cecenia. They sent the military to quell the rebelion. What would have happened if at that time the Russia military was fighting a serious war like the one in Ukraine and didn’t have the resources to fight the Cecen rebels?

Do you think they would have stopped the rebels with nukes? It is more likely that they would have just negotiated with them and allowed for an independent Cecenia, because they would have had no better option if the army was not in a position to intervene.

NATO has zero desire to curbstomp Russia as a nation-state into broken-up oblivion, as it likewise has zero interest in Russia coming apart at the seams through violent internal strife/upheaval.

Unfortunately NATO just wants to weaken Russia, not to desintegrate it. This is why they are not helping Ukraine sufficiently and are not allowing it to strike in Russia using the donated missiles. I just hope that the situation will evolve in a way that Russia’s collapse will become inevitable despite NATO not trying to achieve that.

Call that weak if you will. Most people call that "we'd like a non-irratiated planet to continue".

This thing with nukes and an irradiated planet is just a scary story not anchored in reality. First of all, even if it would come to a few nukes being used in a war, it will be most likely to happen on the frontline with tactical nukes, which don’t cause too much radiation.

As for a “radiated world” because some bigger nukes have been detonated, that’s just another myth. Think about the time when nukes were being developed and tested. There used to be nukes being detonated all the time.

There have been over 500 atmospheric detonations and over 1500 underground ones, yet we don’t live in an irradiated planet and humans did not go extinct. And keep in mind that the Soviets once detonated the Tsar bomb, which was much bigger than any strategic nuke of today, as it was too big to be delivered by any other means than a gravitational drop. And dispite all that, the world didn’t end, it just moved on.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating for the use of nuclear weapons, I’m just pointing out that this scary scenario with the world being ended if a few nukes are used is complete bonkers.

At this point I think I'm done with you, though. We'll just have to wait and see how this thing pans out, we'll resume the "did the invincible glorious Ukraine show every military analyst that their weaknesses were purely made up and vanquish the evil Russian orcs?" hypothetical a couple years down the line. Keep on keepin' on, though.

We shall see what happens in the future. I just hope Ukraine will continue to receive strong support in both weapons and money so they can continue the war and consume Russia. They will soon develop even better long range weapons themselves, and they will be able to inflict even more damage to mainland Russia, so there is hope.

 

[FiReFTW]

Ukraine received 6 F-16 jets, only 5 left now lol, that was fast

 

[Agha Sher]

Ukraine received 6 F-16 jets, only 5 left now lol, that was fast

Maybe more destroyed on the ground. RU hit the airbase where they are located with cruise missiles after somebody leaked a photo of their location.

 

[SilverMachine]

First I've heard of any additional F-16s taken out, skeptical on that personally. But they definitely lost the one and its (apparently very senior/decorated) pilot though, Ukrainians and western media are reporting that now too.

Sounds like probably either friendly fire, or he collided with one of the incomings he was trying to shoot down, doesn't seem like a Russian downing.

At any rate, like with the rest of the war the pilot's more valuable than the airframe, they need every flight-trained human they can get. Sounds like he was top-tier among their pilots too, so a pretty fucky day for them it seems.

 

[Bogeyman]

First F-16 destroyed. Ukr media announced the death of a F-16 pilot. He was killed while performing a combat mission.

Edit:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1828823292167508297

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1829519980549091597

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1829567967320817926

 

[Jammer]

Unfortunately NATO just wants to weaken Russia, not to desintegrate it. This is why they are not helping Ukraine sufficiently and are not allowing it to strike in Russia using the donated missiles. I just hope that the situation will evolve in a way that Russia’s collapse will become inevitable despite NATO not trying to achieve that.

Then create another middle east like mess with thousands of nukes so that europe can feel safe? The reality is Russia is a " european problem" and americans know that they dont want to spent valuable resources taking on an enemy who is "neutered". Various US officials had warned european leaders about Russia having revisionist aims and they were ignored or laughed at. EU had no problem guzzling russian oil and allowing their oligarchs a place in their economics. With all that when ukraine happened they blame the Americans and the world for not doing enough!!!

 

[contricusc]

Then create another middle east like mess with thousands of nukes so that europe can feel safe? The reality is Russia is a " european problem" and americans know that they dont want to spent valuable resources taking on an enemy who is "neutered". Various US officials had warned european leaders about Russia having revisionist aims and they were ignored or laughed at. EU had no problem guzzling russian oil and allowing their oligarchs a place in their economics. With all that when ukraine happened they blame the Americans and the world for not doing enough!!!

I agree with you that many European leaders made big mistakes in their relationship with Russia, especially when it comes to Germany, Austria and Hungary. They thought Russia could be a partner, and they thought Putin was a rational person. They were wrong, and the warnings about Russia’s revisionist aims were right.

But the past is the past, and mistakes can’t be undone. At least now, there seems to be more consensus in Europe about the need to help Ukraine and weaken Russia. There are still traitors like Orban in Hungary, but most of the EU is in agreement that Putin is an enemy and there is no going back to the past friendly relationship.

Hopefully the EU will remain focused and will help Ukraine achieve victory. The US cannot be relied on too much, as they have thier own interests and may change their policies anytime.