Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[SilverMachine]

Ukraine was never going to attack Russia, be it a member of NATO or not. Did Poland get invaded because it looked like it might join NATO? It is not for the Russians to dictate to other peoples what cultural or military relationships they are allowed to have. Nor for the US.

I am in favour of freedom and democracy remaining in Ukraine. Many countries claiming to support freedom and democracy ditch their support where they see a different course serving their national interest better. That is a curse on others.

Not defending Putin's actions in invading here whatsoever, but "Ukraine would never invade Russia" was never Putin's point, if we want to give a fair lay of the land here. He was seeing the country that's historically been the buffer zone between Russian sphere and western sphere start cuddling up to the west bigtime, with Obama staffers/advisors on the ground in Ukraine getting involved in elections.

The guy never thought Ukraine would *invade* Russia, that was never his point. It's "NATO get the fuck out of my backyard". Right or wrong (he's wrong for doing it), it's an understandable concern for a Russian leader, and has been for every Russian leader of every system of government going back centuries. Crimea wouldn't have happened (at least at the time it did, last decade, might have long into the future sure) had the Obama administration not been twisting Vlad's nipples basically bragging that they're influencing Ukrainian elections. Let alone a full invasion of Ukraine proper. This goes back way before 2014.

 

[Relic]

USA will transfer 500 air defense missiles for Patriot and NASAMS air defense systems to Ukraine. These missiles will be a combination of PAC-2 / PAC-3 interceptors, as well as AIM-9M/X and AIM-120 (multi variant) AMRAAMs.

United States has prepared 500 missiles for NASAMS and Patriot systems for Ukraine

The United States will soon send Ukraine 500 interceptor missiles for the NASAMS and Patriot air defense systems.

mil.in.ua

 

[Woland]

I am pretty sure users in this forum including the Turkish government would be very vocal if the Syrians decided 1 day to massacre a Turkish population(turkmen) somewhere in Syria. Let's say it does happen and Turkey intervenes would you blame Turkey( I would be on Turkes side)?

I see we're back to the morality of the invasion argument, I already explained why it doesn't work here: https://defencehub.live/threads/ukraine-russia-war.3279/page-1417#post-347089

 

[Woland]

View attachment 71935

A post serving no purpose other than trolling.

Another rule broken in the previous post -
"The war will continue as long as the UK keeps being a spiteful little bitch of a country."
"name calling other... countries [are] strictly forbidden." - https://defencehub.live/threads/forum-rules.802/#post-4292

I genuinely wonder why you became a moderator here, considering you don't know/respect the rules of this forum, and regularly make posts that are flat out lies. A very bad precedent to set for other users.

 

[Ryder]

The UK led the charge in aiding Ukraine and bullying other states to do the same. They're the problem. It was Boris Johnson who urged Zelensky's futile resistance after all, not Biden.The war will continue as long as the UK keeps being a spiteful little bitch of a country.

Ukraine as a whole functions on foreign money atm, after US stops sending gibs it'll collapse fast unless EU is stupid enough to print infinite Euros to prolong it (and I'm confident they are). Second, from what I heard Ukrainians deluded themselves that US is going to send boots on the ground aaany minute now, if Trump cuts that possibility away then morale will collapse. Third, after the war ends Russia will have to switch from wartime economy which will be a shitshow and they'd have millions of soldiers sitting on idle hands, so my prediction is that it's in nobody's interest to end it soon and it will drag on for a year more at least.

Why Volodymyr Zelensky may welcome Donald Trump’s victory

Disillusion with Joe Biden has reached deep levels

www.economist.com

"Ukraine is struggling to replace battlefield losses with conscription, barely hitting two-thirds of its target. A senior Ukrainian military commander admits that there has been a collapse in morale in some of the worst sections of the front. A source in the general staff suggests that nearly a fifth of soldiers have gone AWOL from their positions."

You mean Russia's peace treaty of capitulation.

 

[blackjack]

A post serving no purpose other than trolling.

Another rule broken in the previous post -
"The war will continue as long as the UK keeps being a spiteful little bitch of a country."
"name calling other... countries [are] strictly forbidden." - https://defencehub.live/threads/forum-rules.802/#post-4292

I genuinely wonder why you became a moderator here, considering you don't know/respect the rules of this forum, and regularly make posts that are flat out lies. A very bad precedent to set for other users.

So you are telling any disagreement you have with me is a lie from me? I am pretty sure an American organization like the red cross talking about losses seems genuine from a western source along with Ukrainian sources themselves talking about their mobilization numbers being low seems genuine. Speaking of moderation I think double posting might be against the rules and you can save thread space with just 1 reply

 

[SilverMachine]

You mean Russia's peace treaty of capitulation.

The peace treaty of capitulation that's absolutely the way this thing is going to end in a year or so?

 

[Spitfire9]

The peace treaty of capitulation that's absolutely the way this thing is going to end in a year or so?

I'm not sure that outright capitulation will be the case.

I suspect that Trump will want to be seen as the strong man who forced both Russia and Ukraine to accept his proposal to end the war. He may threaten to greatly increase support for Ukraine if Russia does not accept his peace proposal as well as threatening to cut off all support to Ukraine if it does not accept his proposal.

 

[SilverMachine]

Yeah, maybe "capitulation" isn't the right word, not in an entirety case. But Zelensky's most definitely caving on the "Crimea and the Donbass will be Ukrainian again!" righteous stubbornness. It'll get too bad at a point, the military will be depleted enough and no more mobilization of men being an option. Even not getting into the Trump election aspect, it was going that way anyway beforehand.

Won't be a month from now or three months from now. But it's done, they can't take any territory back at this point, and he'll yell "uncle!" before Putin really puts the squeeze on Ukraine and takes the whole thing. I figure the demarcation line will more-or-less hold where it is, a few villages/towns shifting here or there, but big picture whatever Russia's taken is Russia now, Ukraine saves Ukraine by becoming 30% smaller and throwing their NATO plans out the window. And it all ends there because - twisted as Putin may be - Putin's not fucking with Poland. Ever.

 

[Spitfire9]

Yeah, maybe "capitulation" isn't the right word, not in an entirety case.

I suspect that Trump's plan will be for both Ukraine and Russia to surrender to his will (by accepting his peace plan).

 

[Oublious]

 

[blackjack]

Trump's son was pretty vocal on Twitter before about dropping support for Ukraine also trump is aware they he got removed recently from Ukraine's government website of getting killed.

https://www.instagram.com/officialinsanethrottle/reel/DCH_OV1N2Be/
Yesterday Trump said he wants the money going to Ukraine to be redirected in helping the homeless in the US.

 

[Spitfire9]

Russia is losing the highest number of soldiers a day since Vladimir Putin ordered the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, the UK army chief has claimed.

Sir Tony Radakin told the BBC that Russian forces were suffering 1,500 casualties a day. He described the cost of the war on the Russian people as “extraordinary”.

Ukraine-Russia war: Russia suffering highest casualties of war, says UK army chief

Ukraine attacks Moscow and its region with at least 32 drones in early hours

www.independent.co.uk

I am inclined to believe him. To me it makes sense for Russia to push hard with high losses at this juncture and to keep pushing until Trump assumes office, the idea being to agree to an end of hostilities where both sides hang on to the territory they hold at that time.

 

[UkroTurk]

I see we have established and accepted that it wasn't a majority, but that somehow when a minority wants independence the majority should acquiesce. We live in a society of laws and norms, if a minority wants independence it has two choices: 1. move to a new country or 2. convince enough people until they become the majority and can influence elections. I'll reiterate; there was no independence movement in Donbas of any significance until Russian soldiers who pretended to be from Donbas were brought in. There was no huge issue, there was no huge problem.

But hey, if Italy ever invades Italian-speaking Switzerland because 500 people there were unhappy with the Swiss government, feel free to give Italy some extra land.

Dear, where were the Russian minority who were need to be saved?
For instance Lugansk that just to Russian border, Rural people of villages of Lugansk speak in Ukrainian language! The most east of Ukraine and people speak in Ukrainian language!!!
Half of Lugansk moved to Ukraine not to Russia, entire half Lugansk had to live in the city. No one moved to Russia to live.

Thinking " citizens of eastern Ukraine are originally Russians " is nonsense and delusional. I would say : citizens of Western Russian citizens were assimilated Ukrainians.

Half of Moscow is assimilated Ukrainians whose ancestors had spoken Ukrainian language.


On the other hand, Turkish Army is absolutely not in Syria in order to save Turkmens. Absolutely Turkmens weren't the aim of operation.

Turkish soldiers in Syria in order to prevent terrorists not to establish a government!!!! We don't invade Syria vice versa we save Syria from separated Kürdistan.!!!

There are difference , there are two different cases . Ukraine is independent state and faced invasion from other country. There wasn't Separatism in Ukraine like Kurds in Syria. Separatist terrorism and invasion are two different things.

 

[blackjack]

Ukraine-Russia war: Russia suffering highest casualties of war, says UK army chief

Ukraine attacks Moscow and its region with at least 32 drones in early hours

www.independent.co.uk

I am inclined to believe him. To me it makes sense for Russia to push hard with high losses at this juncture and to keep pushing until Trump assumes office, the idea being to agree to an end of hostilities where both sides hang on to the territory they hold at that time.

High losses or not Biden was playing the good cop for Ukraine Trump is now playing the bad cop for Ukraine. A true belief in Ukraine's victory is if trump continues funding which sounds like he clearly won't. The Ukrainian front currently collapsing with no US funding later will force Zelensky to agree with most of Russia's terms of the peace agreement.

Thinking " citizens of eastern Ukraine are originally Russians " is nonsense and delusional. I would say : citizens of Western Russian citizens were assimilated Ukrainians.

Why was Donetsk getting bombed since 2014 admitted by yours truly Ukraine's general and the Pentagon? Or your trying to pretend that never existed? Let's have the turkmen get bombed in Syria I am sure this forum will have your kind of thinking because they are Syrians and not turkmen

 

[UkroTurk]

High losses or not Biden was playing the good cop for Ukraine Trump is now playing the bad cop for Ukraine. A true belief in Ukraine's victory is if trump continues funding which sounds like he clearly won't. The Ukrainian front currently collapsing with no US funding later will force Zelensky to agree with most of Russia's terms of the peace agreement.

Why was Donetsk getting bombed since 2014 admitted by yours truly Ukraine's general and the Pentagon? Or your trying to pretend that never existed?

In 2014 were you in Donetsk ? I was there if you wonder. There were just Russian rockets that i faced.

Russian classics, "wolf makes itself a victim". In Ukraine there is just one victim, it is a Ukrainian nation!! Not Russians!!

 

[blackjack]

In 2014 were you in Donetsk ? I was there if you wonder. There were just Russian rockets that i faced.

Russian classics, "wolf makes itself a victim". In Ukraine there is just one victim, it is a Ukrainian nation!! Not Russians!!

Maidan casualties - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Since Russians don't exist as you say why would they be pro-russian?

 

[UkroTurk]

Maidan casualties - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yeah, pro-russian dictator Yanukovich ordered police to shoot to kill civilian protestors. BTW where is that bitch ? Why doesn't he live in Donbass instead of in Russia since he was legal president of Ukraine?
BTW his native language was Ukrainian, his senior relatives still speak in Ukrainian language
Gratefully Ukrainian people got rid of russian puppets. There is no place for Russian invaders as well as north Koreans in Ukraine.

Russian plus north Koreans are in Ukraine WTF??!!!

 

[blackjack]

Yeah, pro-russian dictator Yanukovich ordered police to shoot to kill civilian protestors. BTW where is that bitch ? Why doesn't he live in Donbass instead of in Russia since he was legal president of Ukraine?
BTW his native language was Ukrainian, his senior relatives still speak in Ukrainian language
Gratefully Ukrainian people got rid of russian puppets. There is no place for Russian invaders in Ukraine.

You a story teller now? Please provide proof although I dont find anything funny like you do that people got killed in the maiden massacre that started this war. But it will be funny when I point my finger and laugh at you in this forum for the inevitable results of this war which I hope your prepared for later with some other users here.

At least one of my biggest critics here before Garry has seen the light

 

[UkroTurk]

Last news from situation of poor Ukrainian people. Yeah anyone didn't leave their home. Yeah everyone were Russian speakers yeah, everyone moved to Russian occupied territory. Yeah yeah tell me the stories.

More than 48 thousand people have been evacuated from the right bank of the Kherson region

November 10, 2024, 05:29



People continue to be evacuated from dangerous areas of the region

The evacuation is carried out with the support of volunteers, and also takes into account the difficult security situation due to shelling and drone attacks from the Russian Federation.

Since the deoccupation of the right bank of the Kherson region from Russian invaders, more than 48 thousand local residents have been evacuated to safer settlements. This was reported during a briefing on Saturday, November 9, by Deputy Head of the Regional Military Administration Yaroslav Shanko.