Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia

Madokafc

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
4,171
Reactions
7,390
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Losing at least 3600 major weapon system, including a fucking Cruiser along with dozens of high end tiered jet fighter/fighter bomber, in mere 78 days of battle need special skill and capability. This losses in manpower and resource only comparable to major operation during world war II.
 

Madokafc

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
4,171
Reactions
7,390
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Btw, quality and quantity of our major equipment should be priority, such major conflict required attrition rates as major concern. Including logistic management and production capability and capacity to build our munition, AT system, armor, Manpads, fighter, rocket artillery, helicopters and Naval platform.

Indonesia itu diapit sama negara negara yang punya kapasitas dan kapabilitas industri militer yang lumayan besar, negara kek India, China, Jepang, Korsel, Australia punya industri militer yang kuat dan kalau ada kemungkinan konflik antara mereka kita harus bisa punya deterrence dan sekaligus punya modal untuk mengambil keuntungan dari konflik. Mereka pasti butuh munisi, logistik, pangan dan hasil industri lainnya, kalo bisa jualan bakalan cuan luar biasa.
 

Van Kravchenko

Contributor
Messages
996
Reactions
667
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Banyak banget komentar di sosmed yakin Rusia akan serang Finlandia klo jadi gabung NATO. Kira-kira mereka akan komentar apa klo ternyata nanti sudah gabung tapi ga diserang Rusia?

Bakal seru nih baca komentar hasil mental gymnastic bocah ura ura

6c7qcj.jpg

Btw, quality and quantity of our major equipment should be priority, such major conflict required attrition rates as major concern. Including logistic management and production capability and capacity to build our munition, AT system, armor, Manpads, fighter, rocket artillery, helicopters and Naval platform.

Indonesia itu diapit sama negara negara yang punya kapasitas dan kapabilitas industri militer yang lumayan besar, negara kek India, China, Jepang, Korsel, Australia punya industri militer yang kuat dan kalau ada kemungkinan konflik antara mereka kita harus bisa punya deterrence dan sekaligus punya modal untuk mengambil keuntungan dari konflik. Mereka pasti butuh munisi, logistik, pangan dan hasil industri lainnya, kalo bisa jualan bakalan cuan luar biasa.
Couldn't agree more,
Masalahnya buat memenuhin produksi dalam negeri aja masih keseok seok, jangankan untuk ekspor. Produk swasta pun juga dipandang sebelah mata. Inovasi yang dipuja puja hanya yg berasal dari kalangan "Negri"(ga jarang cuma bullshit).

Kupikir Indonesia perlu membenahi sistem logistik dan manajemen di bidang pertahanan :3
 

RhythmoftheRain0601

Contributor
Messages
951
Reactions
694
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
It’s almost like an insult wkwk, but at least they have commitment to ASEAN. What we expect? Marshall Plan? 4th or 6th biggest Air Force in the world like what they gave to South Vietnam?

“The US Coast Guard will also deploy a ship to the region to help local fleets counter what Washington and countries in the region have described as China's illegal fishing.” No sign that US want to change the status quo, they might think South China Sea need no change the status quo yet.

“The White House also announced that Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies will launch a privately funded institute for rising leaders from ASEAN nations that will bring mid-career public sector officials to the United States for leadership training.” This one is interesting. Source from AP.
 
Last edited:

Madokafc

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
4,171
Reactions
7,390
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia

Did you know another countries who commited regional security funding grant and enhancement capability program larger than US? and while doing so for every fucking years?

And while the number is "small" , those funding is not panacea for the regional countries to face the bully like China or so on in the first place, but more to increasing US engagement among ASEAN, increasing their exposure and cooperation
 

JATOSINT 

Contributor
Messages
1,153
Reactions
1,799
Website
twitter.com
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Did you know another countries who commited regional security funding grant and enhancement capability program larger than US? and while doing so for every fucking years?

And while the number is "small" , those funding is not panacea for the regional countries to face the bully like China or so on in the first place, but more to increasing US engagement among ASEAN, increasing their exposure and cooperation
I am not saying that $150 million is the only aid that US will provide to the region

Other observers and analysts have also questioned the small $ announced for such a strategic meeting + narrative that the money will be used to help counter Beijing's influence in the region
 

wahyu845

Member
Messages
19
Reactions
9
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Btw, kualitas dan kuantitas peralatan utama kami harus menjadi prioritas, konflik besar seperti itu membutuhkan tingkat gesekan sebagai perhatian utama. Termasuk manajemen logistik dan kemampuan produksi dan kapasitas untuk membangun amunisi, sistem AT, armor, Manpad, pesawat tempur, artileri roket, helikopter, dan platform Angkatan Laut kami.

Indonesia itu diapit sama negara negara yang punya kapasitas dan kapabilitas industri militer yang lumayan besar, negara kek India, China, Jepang, Korsel, Australia punya industri militer yang kuat dan kalau ada kemungkinan konflik antara mereka kita harus bisa punya deterrence dan sekaligus punya modal untuk mengambil keuntungan dari konflik. Mereka pasti butuh munisi, logistik, pangan dan hasil industri lainnya, kalo bisa jualan bakalan cuan luar biasa.
Secure comunication ,network centric , logistic support,perbanyak AT dan Manpad adalah pelajaran yang harus dipetik oleh Indonesia dlm konfik Ukraine
 

Shin Met his Skype GF

Contributor
Messages
484
Reactions
295
Nation of residence
Jamaica
Nation of origin
Marshall Islands
"Mom, I told you playing video games is useful in real life! Who said I can't use my gaming skills in real life?"

Dia pke trik drone terbang rendah dan cepat agar tidak kena deteksi radar sama seperti yg pesawat tempur lakukan.

 

ArvaYale

Member
Messages
15
Reactions
12
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Did you know another countries who commited regional security funding grant and enhancement capability program larger than US? and while doing so for every fucking years?

And while the number is "small" , those funding is not panacea for the regional countries to face the bully like China or so on in the first place, but more to increasing US engagement among ASEAN, increasing their exposure and cooperation
Well, they got outmaneuvered by China in "economic funding". Like wth the US is only fast satset when the military-industrial complex is involved. Wth 150 million USD donation for entire ASEAN, 20 billion USD weapon package for Ukraine alone. Meanwhile, some Chinese BUMN banks and construction companies can throw in shtload of dirty Yuans to whatever shady country. China and US are the opposite of each other, China is slow and rigid in terms of arms sales but acts fast in civilian economic affairs, while the US is the opposite.

China is actually relatively poor in terms of diplomacy, maybe because their people are just naturally "kaku"? simply not as charismatic or tactful as some other nations. But by using Chinese loan hacks, they figure out a way to compensate for that and curry influence rapidly, catching up with the US.
 

ArvaYale

Member
Messages
15
Reactions
12
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Couldn't agree more,
Masalahnya buat memenuhin produksi dalam negeri aja masih keseok seok, jangankan untuk ekspor. Produk swasta pun juga dipandang sebelah mata. Inovasi yang dipuja puja hanya yg berasal dari kalangan "Negri"(ga jarang cuma bullshit).

Kupikir Indonesia perlu membenahi sistem logistik dan manajemen di bidang pertahanan :3
Mengenai Negeri vs Swasta

Ini dilema. Memang industri senjata swasta mestinya lebih didukung lagi karena jika mengandalkan BUMN saja, apalagi jika hanya perusahaan2 itu lagi, kapasitas produksi pasti gak akan bisa besar. Di sisi lain, doktrin orang2 pemerintah itu masih Negeri-sentris, apalagi di UUD dimandatkan bahwa industri strategis dipegang oleh negara, dan tau sendiri gimana negara bekerja. So bayangkan, dari pembuat kebijakan, dari industri hulu ke hilir, sampai ke user, semua dipegang birokrat yang sudah pasti lambat dan kaku pola kerjanya.

Tapi di sisi lain, jika kita terlalu full swasta, atau swasta dominan, baik di industri militer maupun sektor2 lainnya, itu juga tidak baik. Karena swasta orientasinya adalah profit, dan jika kepentingan profit terlalu dominan, implikasi ke negara akan buruk. Dalam kasus ekstrim tentunya ada Amerika dengan military-industrial complex, making profit out of war. Jika di Indonesia mungkin akan terjadi munculnya lobi-lobi swasta di pemerintahan, god knows what they're up to but we shouldn't let that happen.

Di sektor sipil swasta sudah sangat dominan dibanding negara, contoh yang sekarang banyak dibahas adalah mengenai pembangunan infrastruktur dan consumer goods. Kemarin2 saja sampai ada kasus mafia minyak goreng, tentunya ini terjadi karena memang orientasi profit swasta, tidak mau jual rugi walaupun masyarakat yang akhirnya dirugikan. Tapi karena lobi swasta yang sudah sangat kuat, negara jadi ndak berani untuk menindak mereka, mentok PNS pejabatnya yang ditangkep, sedangkan Big Biz tidak. Agaknya mengkhawatirkan jika mindset yang sama akan tertanam di sektor Hankam.
 

RhythmoftheRain0601

Contributor
Messages
951
Reactions
694
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Dalam kasus ekstrim tentunya ada Amerika dengan military-industrial complex, making profit out of war.
SAIC, Peraton and other companies works with US Intelligence: "Oh.. hi.. nice to meet you. About this, we are kind of government official and businessmen at the same time sometimes. Revolving door is so normal to protect the free world."
 
Last edited:

ArvaYale

Member
Messages
15
Reactions
12
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
This book is a quite an informative take on the Japanese invasion of the Dutch East Indies
1652465439112.png


Map of Japanese invasion route in Java:

1652465541120.png


Some points that interested me:

1. Shock effect on opposing forces from mobile firepower.
Tactically, the aggressive and mobile Japanese put the RNEI Army on the wrong track. Japanese air superiority was paralyzing to the NEI units. When aircraft approached, troops immediately sought cover and remained there for long periods of time. Against such an opponent, the NEI troops and in particular the Indonesian components showed insufficient willingness to fight. The RNEI Army faltered psychologically in terms of military capability.

2. Importance of Military Intelligence.

Combat intelligence was often lacking. As a result, the strength and direction of Japanese attacks were unknown
. This made realistic counter-measures extremely difficult. The RNEI Army failed to demonstrate sufficient control when attacking.

3. Quality of military planning, command, and control determines victory or defeat. A rigid way of commanding has negative effects of causing confusion and lowering the capability of the troops.

Planning and coordination were moderate to poor.
As a result, counter-attacks took place in a fragmented manner and with forces that were too weak. In the counter-attack of the 2nd Infantry Regiment and Teerink Group, the advance to contact was started according to the rules, i.e. when the attackers were within range of their artillery – c. 15km. As a result, troops jumped off kilometres ahead of the attack target and had to advance in battle formation for hours through tough terrain under tropical temperatures. The result was the loss of the element of surprise and exhaustion among the attacking troops – and all this in the face of enemy air superiority.

4. Good intelligence and planning equals effective military operation, failing both means failing the operation, and failing the war as a result. Hesitation to act will only worsen the situation.

Artillery was deployed in a hesitant and fragmented manner. Australian Major J.H. Brown had pointed out the shortcomings in an exercise in November 1941: ‘No coordinated fire plan had been prepared nor had any recce been made by battalion commanders … Three hours after daylight the two attacking battalions had moved forward about a mile and still well behind the front line were having breakfast.

5. Leadership quality is of utmost importance, bad commanders create a bad military. Both sufficient education and experience are needed to make a good commander.

The impression was that the attack suffered from lack of drive from above and would have been fatal in practice.’ Brown saw the main weakness ‘in the battalion and regimental commanders who lack practical experience’. Based on his findings, the Australian Director of Military Intelligence stated that ‘the army is well equipped. Their training is mainly defensive and their knowledge of offensive tactics is more theoretical than practical.

6. Orderly command structure ensure good command. Messing up with it will cause confusion and ineffective military command.

Command was sometimes chaotic. Division commanders had direct contact with company-level commanders and vice versa, bypassing the hierarchical command lines.

I personally like the last point the most, because in recent times someone tells me that having a company-level unit handling things is somehow good because battalion and above are too big of a unit. It is very interesting that Londo commanders also think the same way, that their division commanders directly commanded kompi. Well, we know the result of it.
 

Umigami

Experienced member
Moderator
Indonesia Moderator
Messages
2,432
Reactions
1,901
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Jika pengen tahu gambaran seperti apa kru BMP 3 marinir beraksi di medan tempur sebenarnya.

Skip ke 12:12 untuk bagian Invasi.
 
Top Bottom