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schuimpjes

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no advance knowledge of the affairs of the state (tukang bakso, preman, tukang las etc...)
Pendidikan politik is also responsibility of political parties, but no one does it right now.

The best example of it was PKI actually, no joke. Problem during the 50s and 60s was illiteracy or buta huruf, and they were the one that went down to addressed the problem and did the pendidikan politik, one of the key for their grassroots support.

Army, which could be called as de facto political party answered it with village level Bintara Pembina during the 60s. Motivation for the making of Babinsa were political during the Cold War.
 

schuimpjes

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The best example of it was PKI actually, no joke. Problem during the 50s and 60s was illiteracy or buta huruf, and they were the one that went down to addressed the problem and did the pendidikan politik, one of the key for their grassroots support.

Army, which could be called as de facto political party answered it with village level Bintara Pembina during the 60s. Motivation for the making of Babinsa were political during the Cold War.
“Pertama, Ia berandil dalam kaderisasi elite militer Indonesia yang ke-Amerika-amerikaan melalui Seskoad pada akhir 1950-an. Kedua, merancang propaganda antikomunis setelah gegeran G30S. Ketiga, membenarkan pemusnahan PKI pada 1965-1966 (hlm. 650).

Hubungan Guy Pauker dengan TNI AD terjalin melalui Kolonel Suwarto. Majalah Tempo menyebut ia adalah salah satu perwira yang sempat mengenyam sekolah militer Fort Leavenworth dan lulus pada 1959. Suwarto juga dikenal kritis terhadap Sukarno dan dekat dengan Jenderal Ahmad Yani. Suwarto lalu dilindungi Jenderal Yani dengan menjadikannya Direktur Sekolah Staf dan Komando AD (Seskoad).

Pada 1962 Guy Pauker mengundang Suwarto ke kantor pusat RAND Corporation di Santa Monica. Saat itu Suwarto masih wakil komandan Seskoad. Guy Pauker memberinya banyak saran tentang isu-isu internasional. Ia juga belajar bagaimana menghimpun para akademisi sebagai konsultan politik dan ekonomi. Itulah modal Suwarto untuk mengubah kurikulum di Seskoad.

Suwarto lalu merekrut sejarawan militer Nugroho Notosusanto dan beberapa sarjana penerima beasiswa Ford Foundation untuk mengajar di Seskoad. Suwarto dan Guy Pauker juga berkolaborasi menyusun doktrin militer baru tentang strategi perang teritorial yang memungkinkan tentara berperan dan mengontrol hingga ke level desa.”
 

Ravager

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Even Islamic State caliphs were nominated by Ahlul Halli Wal Aqdi, including well known Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and all caliphs must be from the Tribe of Quraish.

No that's not a democracy. The first four Caliph get their post either through shura or testament/will from previously deceased caliph.

One of the misunderstandings that most contemporary Muslims fell into, me including for a very LONG time is that democracy = shura.

Democracy is a system where it's the people who have the final say (theoretically), a shura doesn't work that way. The shura is basically the elders and the most capable men available to the state to discuss things that otherwise can't be solved by looking at the Qur'an and Sunna. Such as...what to do after the prophet is dead. Because the Qur'an and Sunna never actually said what to do and who to fill the position of Muhammad as a head of state after he died. The Shura council that emerge in Saqifa didn't ask for the opinion of commoners in markets to determine that Abu Bakr would fill the position let alone ask people to vote for it.

In a democracy, even people with no advance knowledge of the affairs of the state (tukang bakso, preman, tukang las etc...) could determine who will take charge of the state.

Saying that Shura= democracy because there's some semblance of vote in the shura is like saying marriage (nikah) is the same as free sex because in both cases there's an act of sexual intercourse. Of course, it's not the same.

Seriously .... Why both of you circling around the semantics ?? Word's construct of the other ??we indonesians do have our wisdom and insight . What we need a consensus .... A mufakat . Where every body make a compromises for the greater goods . Even wills of succesion should be abandoned if the masses are against it .....
Liked or not ...without a majority consent or approval ...nothing would be ever done or proceeds smoothly .
There is no such things as a perfect systems . And different people has different needs and understanding embedded in their cultural psyche . Take a high roads and try to understand people's aspiration and wishes for more . and never dictates your ideals unto others .... Because it only breed conflict and fostering hate between the populace .. always make a compromises for the better ...

I have said my piece ... And count me out of this future mental gymnastics ...

@NEKO ....don't just laugh man . Pass me some of those popcorn here ... ☕☕
 

Gary

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Pendidikan politik is also responsibility of political parties, but no one does it right now.

The best example of it was PKI actually, no joke. Problem during the 50s and 60s was illiteracy or buta huruf, and they were the one that went down to addressed the problem and did the pendidikan politik, one of the key for their grassroots support.

Pendidikan politik is most of the time just propaganda that the state or certain organizations hyped up. Pendidikan here has nothing to do with an actual education, it means you direct people to think a certain way and behind this arahan there's always political interests.

It does not give the common man a general idea of the state of affairs, because let's face it most people don't care about the affairs of the state, they just want to pay their bill. So to grab their attention pendidikan politik directed them to do what the state wants them to do via what I could only describe as propaganda.

During the new order, this pendidikan politik amounts to Pendidikan Pancasila which has nothing to do with the latter.

These days they use polls, "research" groups, think tanks, etc to advance their political interest hidden beneath the cloak of pendidikan politik

If these parties are communists, you bet their pendidikan politik will push for communism
if these parties are liberals, you bet the pendidikan politik will push for liberal thoughts
etc

This is not the same with the Shura, in which the only first and foremost interest is Islam and the state of affairs of Islam. Not in a democracy where various organization will push their own interests by FOOLING the common man to fight for them.

This is why in the end, in any democracy, populism always wins. You see the rise of Trump, Brexit, etc. Populists won, not by making sure that the commoners understood the pros and cons of their actions but by making sure they supported them unconditionally mostly through a series of LIES. This is how Ben Gvir and Smotrich get their seats, not because they're qualified statesmen, but because they simply talk the talk that Israelis want to hear. This is how successive Athenian senators push Athens into war with Macedonia, by fooling people through a series of lies and populism.

And just like Athens, these democracies will be destroyed by their democratic process.

The fact that most countries I oppose are democracies, makes my life a lot better



Army, which could be called as de facto political party answered it with village level Bintara Pembina during the 60s. Motivation for the making of Babinsa were political during the Cold War.

And this is another reason why people (Muslims foremost) need to stop participating in this crap from ancient Greece. There is no such thing as democracy. If voting actually leads to actual changes, these people in power would make them illegal.

in 1991, the FIS party won the Presidential election in Algeria, the army moved in and nullified the election
In Turkiye, successive Prime Ministers/President were removed after being elected, by the army. they tried one with Erdogan but failed

So when people understand how the world works, they would find democracy as the bottom of the pit when it comes to political choices.
 

schuimpjes

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Pendidikan politik is most of the time just propaganda that the state or certain organizations hyped up. Pendidikan here has nothing to do with an actual education, it means you direct people to think a certain way and behind this arahan there's always political interests.
And this is another reason why people (Muslims foremost) need to stop participating in this crap from ancient Greece.
That’s the point of pendidikan politik.

Btw, Muslims has the best architecture for it now. See how much schools are Islamic schools right now.
 

Gary

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That’s the point of pendidikan politik.

Which is just another word for fooling people that led to obscure populists rising to the top.


Btw, Muslims has the best architecture for it now. See how much schools are Islamic schools right now.

My school background before university:

-International primary school (with Singapore curriculum)
-SMP-IT
-SMA-IT

I could tell with certainty that my teacher during my junior and senior high times didn't understand crap when it comes to either:

1. The state of the country's affairs
2. Islam (ironically in an Islamic school)

They could pop up thousands of schools but if they don't teach the very essence, there's no use of it. These "Islamic" schools produce alumni that came up with Islam= democracy, Islam = communism, Islam= feminism and all sorts of crap.
If these Islamic schools actually teach the correct Islam, you will find the government closes them down like they close LEKRA.

My understanding of Islam doesn't actually come from attending Islamic schools, but by my fascination with weapons, which led me to read about wars and battles, which led me to read about politics, which led me to read about Islam, because Islam is a political system (they don't teach this at school). Rarely does an alumni from "Islamic "schools understand the essence.
 

schuimpjes

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Which is just another word for fooling people that led to obscure populists rising to the top.




My school background before university:

-International primary school (with Singapore curriculum)
-SMP-IT
-SMA-IT

I could tell with certainty that my teacher during my junior and senior high times didn't understand crap when it comes to either:

1. The state of the country's affairs
2. Islam (ironically in an Islamic school)

They could pop up thousands of schools but if they don't teach the very essence, there's no use of it. These "Islamic" schools produce alumni that came up with Islam= democracy, Islam = communism, Islam= feminism and all sorts of crap.
If these Islamic schools actually teach the correct Islam, you will find the government closes them down like they close LEKRA.

My understanding of Islam doesn't actually come from attending Islamic schools, but by my fascination with weapons, which led me to read about wars and battles, which led me to read about politics, which led me to read about Islam, because Islam is a political system (they don't teach this at school). Rarely does an alumni from "Islamic "schools understand the essence.
Good then. Glad you not attended Al-Mukmin, Ngruki.

At least they got money from the selling of Ijazah or education business lah
 

Gary

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Good then. Glad you not attended Al-Mukmin, Ngruki.

At least they got money from the selling of Ijazah or education business lah
Yes, that's the essence of these "Islamic" schools. Simply put, from my observation, secularized Indonesians finally found religion back after the mass secularization effort of the new order era. To compensate for their "lack of Islam" parents send their kids to schools which in their minds teach Islam.

Islam in their mind = praying in time, able to recite the Qur'an, dress appropriately. and many SMP/SMA IT provided this education. But that's hardly complete. My suggestion for them is to read more history books even more so than reading government issue religious book. Because that's how I figure it out:ROFLMAO:

One of my cousin enters these schools now, and sometimes I would ask tricky question to make him think twice. He doesn't get it yet, but I hope he eventually will.
 

schuimpjes

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My suggestion for them is to read more history books even more so than reading government issue religious book. Because that's how I figure it out:ROFLMAO:
And turned you into a theocrat
Islam in their mind = praying in time, able to recite the Qur'an, dress appropriately. and many SMP/SMA IT provided this education.
If these Islamic schools actually teach the correct Islam, you will find the government closes them down like they close LEKRA.
The school not as committed as the communists back then
One of my cousin enters these schools now, and sometimes I would ask tricky question to make him think twice. He doesn't get it yet, but I hope he eventually will.
What’s the question?
 

Gary

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If this could turn into a war that would be great. That will tax the Americans even more.

I endorse this
 

schuimpjes

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US Special Force (SFGs) or Green Berets started to train with sUAS (Small Unmanned Aerial System) to 12-men A-Team or ODA level (equivalent to Kopassus 13-men prayudha).

This training granted to contractor named Flymotion without competition contracting mechanism. The J&A (Justification & Approval) document for the contract wrote, "Through this training, they aspire to mitigate risk and enhance mission effectiveness in an OCONUS JCET [Outside the Continental United States Joint Combined Exchange Training] environment as well as semi-permissive and hostile areas to which Special Forces Companies may deploy (in particular Ukraine) utilizing internal Detachment surveillance (Unmanned Aircraft Systems-UAS) technology." JCET is short time or duration training done regularly by US special forces abroad (OCONUS/Outside the Continental United States).

I would be glad if they do the JCET with Kopassus especially for their same role with Green Berets of unconventional warfare other that direct action (DA) or door kicking only and brought this idea.
 

schuimpjes

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Not just the drones gonna be the trends, but also the countermeasures, especially electronic countermeasures for area denial and SmartShooter SMASH like devices.
 
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