Defence Q&A Is the US or China the world’s economic superpower?

xizhimen

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Is the US or China the world’s economic superpower?

TBS Report

01 October, 2021, 02:40 pm

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Gary

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I said if they sail close to China and exposed themselves to China's world largest landbased anti ship missile network.
we have talked about how hard it is to spot and target moving ships in the vast ocean, that means radar would be China's main tool to detect the presence of US Navy carriers going its way.

in which we would now talk emissions control (emcon)

EMCON management for ships consists of four levels:

  • EMCON Delta – The first level with no emission restrictions, used during normal operations.
  • EMCON Charlie – The second level, allowing ships to transmit from mission-essential equipment. This level requires that any sensor unique to the vessel must be turned off in order to prevent identification or classification by adversaries.
  • EMCON Beta – The third level, electronic emissions are limited further but some communications are still allowed.
  • EMCON Alpha – The fourth and most restrictive level. Employed when an operation requires complete silence, no emissions or radiations are permitted.


During CW, US Navy carrier USS Ranger (CV-61) once conducted EMCON Alpha and for two straight weeks its air wing 'attacked' Hawaii and not one could locate its whereabouts. That is during the Cold war, the emission control techniques would be vastly improved by today



And just over a month ago, a much lengthier case of a ″missing″ carrier occurred during an exercise named RIMPAC 86. The USS Ranger, although the target of an intense search that included satellite reconnaissance, escaped detection for two weeks while sailing across the Pacific.


BHAHAHAHAHA
 

xizhimen

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we have talked about how hard it is to spot and target moving ships in the vast ocean, that means radar would be China's main tool to detect the presence of US Navy carriers going its way.

in which we would now talk emissions control (emcon)

EMCON management for ships consists of four levels:

  • EMCON Delta – The first level with no emission restrictions, used during normal operations.
  • EMCON Charlie – The second level, allowing ships to transmit from mission-essential equipment. This level requires that any sensor unique to the vessel must be turned off in order to prevent identification or classification by adversaries.
  • EMCON Beta – The third level, electronic emissions are limited further but some communications are still allowed.
  • EMCON Alpha – The fourth and most restrictive level. Employed when an operation requires complete silence, no emissions or radiations are permitted.


During CW, US Navy carrier USS Ranger (CV-61) once conducted EMCON Alpha and for two straight weeks its air wing 'attacked' Hawaii and not one could locate its whereabouts. That is during the Cold war, the emission control techniques would be vastly improved by today



And just over a month ago, a much lengthier case of a ″missing″ carrier occurred during an exercise named RIMPAC 86. The USS Ranger, although the target of an intense search that included satellite reconnaissance, escaped detection for two weeks while sailing across the Pacific.


BHAHAHAHAHA
China has satelites, underwater drone, spy drones in different sizes, the world biggest fishing fleet in the waters close to China, we have no trouble to detect US fleets if they come close to China. and this is only for now, what will change in a decade can only more be in China's favor, US window is closing or had closed for good, US in the future will retreating more and more from China's coast , this is almost like a consensus even within US military professionals. China can easily outbuild everyone in the years to come.
 

Gary

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China has satelites, underwater drone, spy drones in different sizes, the world biggest fishing fleet in the waters close to China, we have no trouble to detect US fleets if they come close to China.

again let's talk about EMCON

this ship the CV-61,

Image948.jpg




basically sailed from the US mainland, activate EMCON Alpha and then disappear.

The US tried :
1.Satelitte reconaissance
2. A whole fleet searching for it.

and yet the result is:

"The performance was considered all the more remarkable by an Australian admiral who monitored the exercise because the carrier’s planes were flying sorties throughout the period, staging mock attacks against surface ships, submarines and land targets.

Rear Adm. I.W. Knox of the Royal Australian Navy disclosed recently the ″Orange″ forces in RIMPAC could not locate the Ranger ″from the time it departed Southern Californian exercise areas until it steamed into Pearl Harbor some 14 days later.″


source:

How to Make an Aircraft Carrier Vanish


if the US can't track it using an entire fleet with satellite that you like to boast, what makes you think China can detect modern US aircraft carriers with trawlers ??

that is using cold war technology, US emissions control would be even more sophisticated in the 21st century
 

xizhimen

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again let's talk about EMCON

this ship the CV-61,

Image948.jpg




basically sailed from the US mainland, activate EMCON Alpha and then disappear.

The US tried :
1.Satelitte reconaissance
2. A whole fleet searching for it.

and yet the result is:

"The performance was considered all the more remarkable by an Australian admiral who monitored the exercise because the carrier’s planes were flying sorties throughout the period, staging mock attacks against surface ships, submarines and land targets.

Rear Adm. I.W. Knox of the Royal Australian Navy disclosed recently the ″Orange″ forces in RIMPAC could not locate the Ranger ″from the time it departed Southern Californian exercise areas until it steamed into Pearl Harbor some 14 days later.″


source:

How to Make an Aircraft Carrier Vanish


if the US can't track it using an entire fleet with satellite that you like to boast, what makes you think China can detect modern US aircraft carriers with trawlers ??

that is using cold war technology, US emissions control would be even more sophisticated in the 21st century
OK, one word, do you seriously think US plans to engage a sea battle with China close to China? when do you think it'll happen?
 

xizhimen

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If China dares to invade Taiwan and alter the status quo.
You know Taiwan is extremely close to the mainland and can be covered by land based artillery fire and landbased airforce, do you? Aircraft carriers sailing that close to the shore amounts to suicide, they are not designed for near coastal waters.
Besides, China made it very clear, as long as Taiwan doesn't declare independence, they are safe. Xi reiterated it many times, Chinese don't fight Chinese. Unless they become not Chinese.
China also made it clear, China won't allow foreign forces to be deployed in Taiwan, that will mean a certain war, so the ball is in US court. if they want to fight ,they can land on Taiwan first, do you think they will?
 

Gary

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You know Taiwan is extremely close to the mainland and can be covered by land based artillery fire and landbased airforce, do you? Aircraft carriers sailing that close to the shore amounts to suicide, they are not designed for near coastal waters.
Besides, China made it very clear, as long as Taiwan doesn't declare independence, they are safe. Xi reiterated it many times, Chinese don't fight Chinese. Unless they become not Chinese.
China also made it clear, China won't allow foreign forces to be deployed in Taiwan, that will mean a certain war, so the ball is in US court. if they want to fight ,they can land on Taiwan first, do you think they will?

The simple answer is yes.

But you'll need to open new thread about Taiwan invasion scenario, because frankly this thread has been derailed.
 

Viva_vietnamm

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ahh here's comes Korea, the only military achievement you could be proud of. which is 70+ years ago. and basically a stalemate with a huge loss of lives on your side.
PLA's surprise attack tactic only worked at the start of Korean war, when everyone know how PLA's surprise attack tactic work, then even French troops can wipe out PLA men easily. PLA quickly suffered very high casualty (53,000 PLA men killed) in less than 1 month

The only thing Mao could do next was just begging for more support from Soviet.

--------------------------
But the offensive was soon blunted by US IX Corps at Chipyong-ni in the center.[251] The US 23rd Regimental Combat Team and the French Battalion fought a short but desperate battle that broke the attack's momentum.[251] The battle is sometimes known as the "Gettysburg of the Korean War": 5,600 South Korean, US, and French troops were surrounded on all sides by 25,000 PVA. UN forces had previously retreated in the face of large PVA/KPA forces instead of getting cut off, but this time they stood and fought, and won.[256]


In the last two weeks of February 1951, Operation Thunderbolt was followed by Operation Killer, carried out by the revitalized Eighth Army. It was a full-scale, battlefront-length attack staged for maximum exploitation of firepower to kill as many KPA and PVA troops as possible.[251] Operation Killer concluded with US I Corps re-occupying the territory south of the Han River, and IX Corps capturing Hoengseong.[257] On 7 March 1951, the Eighth Army attacked with Operation Ripper, expelling the PVA and the KPA from Seoul on 14 March 1951. This was the fourth and final conquest of the city in a year's time, leaving it a ruin; the 1.5 million pre-war population was down to 200,000, and people were suffering from severe food shortages.[257][198]

On 1 March 1951, Mao sent a cable to Stalin emphasizing the difficulties faced by Chinese forces and the need for air cover, especially over supply lines. Apparently impressed by the Chinese war effort, Stalin agreed to supply two air force divisions, three anti-aircraft divisions, and six thousand trucks. PVA troops in Korea continued to suffer severe logistical problems throughout the war. In late April Peng Dehuai sent his deputy, Hong Xuezhi, to brief Zhou Enlai in Beijing. What Chinese soldiers feared, Hong said, was not the enemy, but having no food, bullets, or trucks to transport them to the rear when they were wounded. Zhou attempted to respond to the PVA's logistical concerns by increasing Chinese production and improving supply methods, but these efforts were never sufficient. At the same time, large-scale air defense training programs were carried out, and the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) began participating in the war from September 1951 onward.[258] The Fourth Phase Offensive had catastrophically failed, in contrast to the success of the Second Phase Offensive and limited gains of the Third Phase Offensive. The U.N. forces, after earlier defeats and subsequent retraining, proved much harder to infiltrate by Chinese light infantry than they had been in previous months. From 31 January to 21 April, the Chinese had suffered 53,000 casualties.[259]
 
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xizhimen

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You can't surprise attack the enemy for over a year, China just wanted to push US away from the Chinese border, and China doesn't want to see an unified Korea in the first place, all Chinese attacks after 38th parallel was half hearted at best.
 

Viva_vietnamm

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You can't surprise attack the enemy for over a year, China just wanted to push US away from the Chinese border, and China doesn't want to see an unified Korea in the first place, all Chinese attacks after 38th parallel was half hearted at best.
Thats why you should realize that China can't keep winning in every battle against US even till now. CN may win at the start of the war, but will be wiped out soon with high casualty when war last for years.

US is still far stronger than CN. Your future is just like evergrade or CN power plants, completely No hope. :cool:
 

xizhimen

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PRC produces for USD. So unless your national money is global currency, you aren't economic super power.

Although PRC is just contractor of Western capital as the country far from the being super economic power.
Make sense, China is working on it, finding ways to dethrone US dollars.
 

xizhimen

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First you had better catch the circulation of EURO than try to be USD.
Even In your neighbor Asian countries you can't use your money whereas they welcome EUR.
Yes, not easy, China holds one third of global total foreign reserve mostly in US dollars herself, so can start with reducing dollar holdings. it's a double edge sword, China also benefits tremendously from this dollar dominating system.
 
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Turko

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Yes, not easy, China holds one third of global total foreign reserve mostly in US dollars herself, so can start with reducing dollar holdings. it's a double edge sword, China also benefits tremendously from this dollar dominating system.
China holds it because it's capital which you haven't been to able create as westerners.
 

xizhimen

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We aren't living in the industrial age of 50ies we are in the 21th century when everything is virtual.
They still buy Chinese products like crazy to the point that our cargo ships and containers are running out, you can go to a virtual supermarket, but you can't buy virtual groceries.
 
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Turko

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They still buy Chinese products like crazy to the point that our cargo ships and containers are running out, you can go to a virtual supermarket, but you can't buy virtual groceries.
Because the western use PRC giving dirty and cheap works which don't bring prosperity and just bring ecological and social problems.
(They do Not just use PRC , Türkiye is in the same league)
 

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