TR Economy & Updates

[mulj]

No the point of that post was to show how much people in Turkey work. It's not a lie, as I have already explained given some of my relatives as an example in previous pages.

i refered only to this iphone index as parameter per se without correlation to the work hours problem. that one is legit problem and something that deserve to be dealt with, with 4 days week which is slowly gaining traction in the first world countries, Turkey at least should implement and encourage companies to go with 40hours work week.

 

[Saithan]

i refered only to this iphone index as parameter per se without correlation to the work hours problem. that one is legit problem and something that deserve to be dealt with, with 4 days week which is slowly gaining traction in the first world countries, Turkey at least should implement and encourage companies to go with 40hours work week.

How do you plan to monitor this ? You have no functional Unions... You have no functional rule of law... AKP sends the Police/Gendarmerie against you when you protest work conditions in front of the companies.... AKP owns most mainstream news outlets... Prosecutors start chasing you when you raise a problem into the public sphere...

How will you solve this ? Brown nose RTE ?

 

[mulj]

How do you plan to monitor this ? You have no functional Unions... You have no functional rule of law... AKP sends the Police/Gendarmerie against you when you protest work conditions in front of the companies.... AKP owns most mainstream news outlets... Prosecutors start chasing you when you raise a problem into the public sphere...

How will you solve this ? Brown nose RTE ?

Frankly speaking, i do not know, is this recognized as problem at any level by AKP at all? if not, nothing can be done until they are in power.
Either way, very good opportunity for opposition to put it in their argumentation case for elections.

 

[Anastasius]

i refered only to this iphone index as parameter per se without correlation to the work hours problem. that one is legit problem and something that deserve to be dealt with, with 4 days week which is slowly gaining traction in the first world countries, Turkey at least should implement and encourage companies to go with 40hours work week.

The iPhone parameter is a legitimate measure. In fact, any luxury good is. The point being, the average Turk has to work insane hours for long periods of time just to afford an iPhone, something that most people in other countries that aren't completely broken hellholes can afford after 1 or 2 paychecks working average hours.

 

[mulj]

The iPhone parameter is a legitimate measure. In fact, any luxury good is. The point being, the average Turk has to work insane hours for long periods of time just to afford an iPhone, something that most people in other countries that aren't completely broken hellholes can afford after 1 or 2 paychecks working average hours.

and i would redund it easily, he can buy xiaomi instead, it could be used as fun fact but not as comprehensive and detailed metric.

 

[Anastasius]

and i would redund it easily, he can buy xiaomi instead, it could be used as fun fact but not as comprehensive and detailed metric.

That's as stupid as telling someone saving up for a used 2010 Toyota to buy a hunk of junk from 1980 instead. It's cheaper after all, so who cares if it's old and about to break down any second?

Why should the average Turk have to work much longer than the average Russian or Mexican to afford the same nice phone?

As my grandfather was fond of saying, people who buy cheap garbage all their lives will end up poor because their mentality becomes that of a man in poverty.

 

[Nilgiri]

@

Facts? Are you serious ?

Turkish people are lazy and doesn't work and it's a "fact"? I'm speechless.

Are you think yourself as a prophet or something like that. When you speak the words that come out your mouth becomes the "absolute truth"

We are the most working people of all Europe

Yet, we are the poorest of Europe.

Yet, we are the poorest of al Europe, one of the most poor in the world, except some very rich people who have connections with AKP elites.

This is the reason why Turks hate Almancıs.... don't run your mouth on us from Germany.

I looked up what Turkish labour productivity is at ILO:

Statistics on labour productivity - ILOSTAT

This topic page on labour productivity provides access to statistical information including data, methods, publications and more.

ilostat.ilo.org

It actually is quite good (w.r.t world) at around 80k USD per worker in PPP (i.e to account for local price level)....this figure has its pros and cons in use (especially for import intensive+supply chain products), but just to give general sense of the potential in a turkish worker if harnessed correctly by rest of the system.

The problem inflicted on Turkey has come almost entirely from the administration side....and the administration side being entrenched for a long time and overstaying the time the system has generally delegated (2 term thing I mentioned number of times already).

99% of people casually dismissing you and others here (and Turkish worker quality or whatever), simply did not look at the serious investment dip (in both quantity and quality) for Turkey this last decade....or the nature of the investment increase in the decade prior to it.

Or understand the importance of investment to begin with, and the time it takes to play out (it is not a 1 - 2 year now even if administration fixes it - which is most certainly is not doing).

Or understand the effect of labour participation rate bumping up this worker productivity average by lowering the denominator (i.e hidden unemployment and underemployment etc).

Nor do they understand if a turkish worker has 80k productivity,......why he/she doesn't see most of that in the pocket (or something impactful at least).....and who is pilfering it instead and where and why and how....

My friend, you will find like everything in the science discipline in general, most people pick and choose what they want in the Economics realm....without understanding what the biggest forces and concepts actually are deeply enough.

When it is a regular joe, it is understandable....a regular joe needs to get through to the next day feeling warm and hopeful sometimes. They get wedded to politicians and political forces they feel are "better" in whatever way.

But when a govt itself does it at scale, that takes a big painful protracted consequence in the end.

 

[mulj]

That's as stupid as telling someone saving up for a used 2010 Toyota to buy a hunk of junk from 1980 instead. It's cheaper after all, so who cares if it's old and about to break down any second?

Why should the average Turk have to work much longer than the average Russian or Mexican to afford the same nice phone?

As my grandfather was fond of saying, people who buy cheap garbage all their lives will end up poor because their mentality becomes that of a man in poverty.

Ok, it might be stupid but your analogy is absurd, contemporary xiaomi is fair comparation with iphone.
I can not enforce nuance in your observation but such is must if you want to achieve objective position.

 

[Nilgiri]

That's as stupid as telling someone saving up for a used 2010 Toyota to buy a hunk of junk from 1980 instead. It's cheaper after all, so who cares if it's old and about to break down any second?

Why should the average Turk have to work much longer than the average Russian or Mexican to afford the same nice phone?

As my grandfather was fond of saying, people who buy cheap garbage all their lives will end up poor because their mentality becomes that of a man in poverty.

The simpler point to make is iphone is representative in that index's concept.

If a xiaomi/samsung/<other smartphone> is used instead...

The chart simply scales for it.

The issue is why is TR worker wage so low no matter the item he is working to buy....compared to the others.

 

[Lool]

While Iam not a fan of really LOW lira, I still have to admit that these are spectacular results tbh
And this is just in the first 9 months of the year

Turkish startups score $1.4 billion in investments in 9 months

The ventures in Turkey raised more than $1.4 billion through 206 deals from January through September of this year, with the deal volume rising more than...

www.dailysabah.com

Turkey lucrative option for new supply chain hubs: Experts

Turkey has emerged as a lucrative place for new supply chain investments in a world where shipping costs have irrepressibly risen. The country is at the...

www.dailysabah.com

 

[Turko]

How could Turkish constructors buy copper, iron, steel, concrete which are sold for USD?
And subsequently how could Turkish people -who earn in national currency- buy flats?

And how could Turkish Budget indemnify AKP constructors? Osmangazi Bridge toll 30 fucking dollar that is guaranteed by government.

Currently
USD 9.25 EUR 10.74

 

[mulj]

How could Turkish constructors buy copper, iron, steel, concrete which are sold for USD?
And subsequently how could Turkish people -who earn in national currency- buy flats?

And how could Turkish Budget indemnify AKP constructors? Osmangazi Bridge toll 30 fucking dollar that is guaranteed by government.

Currently
USD 9.25 EUR 10.74

Do not know for copper but others are available internaly, so false problem, isnt it.

People should shift observation angle, usd is not God's particle and world and life does not revolve around it. Sure it is variable for consideration but not deterministic for state policy, at this point it is lame to pull usd-lira ratio, bend the knee and kira will be "strong " as rock example and cohortes of "experts" will "praise" same policy which is heavily criticued now.

 

[Lool]

Do not know for copper but others are available internaly, so false problem, isnt it.

People should shift observation angle, usd is not God's particle and world and life does not revolve around it. Sure it is variable for consideration but not deterministic for state policy, at this point it is lame to pull usd-lira ratio, bend the knee and kira will be "strong " as rock example and cohortes of "experts" will "praise" same policy which is heavily criticued now.

What @UkroTurk 🚬 meant is how Turkey will be able to import raw materials used for stuff other than exporting such as food and building stuff at the abysmall exchange rate of the lira. Yes Turkey has domestic alternatives but it will take time to establish the infrastructure needed to utilise those resources


I said it b4, Iam all in with Erdo lowering the lira, but it should be done in well planned phases with certain criterias such as food etc be completely domestic and self-suffecient so that the ppl doesnt get screwed during the transition from a high to low lira. What Erdo did is literally slap the ppl with the situation all at once.
Erdo rn is playing with fire. He either wins or loses and if he lost, not only will he get screwed, but also all of Turkey with him for a long time

 

[Indos]

The simpler point to make is iphone is representative in that index's concept.

If a xiaomi/samsung/<other smartphone> is used instead...

The chart simply scales for it.

The issue is why is TR worker wage so low no matter the item he is working to buy....compared to the others.

What is your take on Turkish 12 % inflation (2020) and Iran 54 % inflation (2020) ?

Do you think this is due to money printing from Central Bank that make too much money on the circulation that is not back with production and productivity ?

For information, in the past there is huge inflation and it even bring an economic crisis over a decade in Mecca after Muslim king from Africa gives huge amount of gold to the people there and gold at that time was the currency

 

[Anastasius]

Ok, it might be stupid but your analogy is absurd, contemporary xiaomi is fair comparation with iphone.
I can not enforce nuance in your observation but such is must if you want to achieve objective position.

Fair, my analogy was not the most eloquent and calling yours "stupid" was a bit too far, I apologize for that.

@Nilgiri put it much more coherently than I did.

 

[mulj]

Fair, my analogy was not the most eloquent and calling yours "stupid" was a bit too far, I apologize for that.

@Nilgiri put it much more coherently than I did.

I only disagree as it is only metrics, thigns are bit complicated but that, sure it can be used as one of indicators but not only one.

@Ecderha explained in detailed post which correspond mostly with my chain of tought

 

[mulj]

What @UkroTurk 🚬 meant is how Turkey will be able to import raw materials used for stuff other than exporting such as food and building stuff at the abysmall exchange rate of the lira. Yes Turkey has domestic alternatives but it will take time to establish the infrastructure needed to utilise those resources


I said it b4, Iam all in with Erdo lowering the lira, but it should be done in well planned phases with certain criterias such as food etc be completely domestic and self-suffecient so that the ppl doesnt get screwed during the transition from a high to low lira. What Erdo did is literally slap the ppl with the situation all at once.
Erdo rn is playing with fire. He either wins or loses and if he lost, not only will he get screwed, but also all of Turkey with him for a long time

No objection for that

 

[Turko]

Try to find domestic iron materials with lower prices than global market. You had better to speak Turkish constructors who have cancelled new projects due-to high prices.

You all seem to miss the fact that Erdoğan doesn't increase deliberately and willingly USD.

USD is rising itself because of incorrect economy policies.

Low Turkish Lira absolutely is not good and destroying Turkish people.

Today morning diesel fuel has rised.

So for Turkish Budget depended indirect taxes that most of came from fuel.
How could Turkish Budget compansate it? Or let's make diesel fuel 2 EUR as it was.

İmagine diesel fuel was 20 TL now

Currently İ am in Istanbul , i know better than all of you.

Erdoğan is looser.

 

[Ecderha]

Try to find domestic iron materials with lower prices than global market. You had better to speak Turkish constructors who have cancelled new projects due-to high prices.

You all seem to miss the fact that Erdoğan doesn't increase deliberately and willingly USD.

USD is rising itself because of incorrect economy policies.

Low Turkish Lira absolutely is not good and destroying Turkish people.

Today morning diesel fuel has rised.

So for Turkish Budget depended indirect taxes that most of came from fuel.
How could Turkish Budget compansate it? Or let's make diesel fuel 2 EUR as it was.

İmagine diesel fuel was 20 TL now

Currently İ am in Istanbul , i know better than all of you.

Erdoğan is looser.

Above which you wrote is Incorrect. As I said please Read my post above and understand.

Erdogan or Who ever is in goverment can NOT control TR LIRA Fall it is a FACT. Reason is because Turk citizens to blame for shiting of TR LIRA by taking foreigner Banks loans for 20+ years. This MUST STOP and Turk MUST pay back foreigner Banks loans.

Stop doing Speculation about TR LIRA. The main source of FALL is controled by foreigner LOANers -> Turk signed in foreigner Bank loan debt -> which is made in foreigner valuets (dollar,euro,pound)-> foreigner Banks sell this toxic loan in international stock exchange which hit TR Lira and it fall externally -> Garant of TR lira is Turkiye-> which have fucked by this and try to lower the fall of TR lira, but they can not

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About Fuel and Gas you talking about is also wrong again.
Because Turkiye increase his Influence outside of country and this bring to it new contracts which is paid via fuel and gas-> This change was enough that Turkiye CAN and it DO have weight when there is talks with counties providing import fuel and gas.
It is easy to see this.

Fuel prices in Europe - Tolls.eu

Overview of petrol, diesel and LPG prices for more than 30 European countries. Prices for selected countries can also be read from the graph.

www.tolls.eu

Compare prices above with Turkiye and other countries.

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About "How could Turkish constructors buy copper, iron, steel, concrete which are sold for USD?"
You are right about dollats, but for above materials it is ONLY related to Outside countries.
Why?
Turkiye is exporter of above materials -> Actually they DO export products (not material like you said-> iron,copper,concret etc.)

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I agree with one thing Turks citizens complain about TR Lira fall. And they complain goverment to fix problem whcih they KEEP doing.
Goverment keep trying to said again and again and again . But citizens does not UNDERSTAND
Goverment can NOT control Debts made and signed by Turk citizen in foreigner Banks piriot.......

 

[Zafer]

The iPhone parameter is a legitimate measure. In fact, any luxury good is. The point being, the average Turk has to work insane hours for long periods of time just to afford an iPhone, something that most people in other countries that aren't completely broken hellholes can afford after 1 or 2 paychecks working average hours.

Somebody should also factor in taxes, there are additional taxes on luxury goods in Turkey. An average income person does not use an iPhone. This metric is groundless.