TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[I_Love_F16]

A manned KizilElma would be a direct competitor to the TF-X. + manned aircraft are in a complete different league. Not for Baykar in my opinion.

 

[Ecderha]

View attachment 48917

Since KızılElma is considered as Stealth, would it be wise designing Manned Version of KızılElma?

I would prefer Manned KızılElma rather than Hürjet because Kızılelma has lower RCS. Also Ukrainian engines relatively cheaper and easy to copy.

View attachment 48919

What would you say about manned Kızılelma style compact stealth fighters?

View attachment 48920


I Really wonder if RCS of Kızılelma is nearly as same as F-35.

İmagine 4or 6 a2a missiles in the stealth and manned fighters.

imagine TurAF have 100 compact manned stealth fighters with Turkish AESA radars and BVR missiles!!

View attachment 48918

İn case of Electronic Attack, how could you manage a fighter from 500km ?

How could an unmanned fighter defeat a fighter pilot?

I don't say " unmanned Kızılelma is inefficient" but some of them could be manned.

İn case of Electronic Attack, how could you manage a fighter from 500km ?
There are no 100% Electronic Attack.

1. Communication with satellite upward to space is not jammed
2. Other military platform in parallel flight at range is for pair support
3. TB2 already is prove that Baykar made improvement. I mean they have solution which work on this heavy jamming

all above combined have plausible solution based on proven feedback of TB2, Anka at Wars in Lybia, Syria ,Karabakh, Ukraine.
Solution is already there

 

[Afif]

can anyone make any estimation, if twin engine KE will have supercruise capability ?

 

[UkroTurk]

İn case of Electronic Attack, how could you manage a fighter from 500km ?
There are no 100% Electronic Attack.

1. Communication with satellite upward to space is not jammed
2. Other military platform in parallel flight at range is for pare support
3. TB2 already is prove that Baykar made improvement. I mean they have solution which work on this heavy jamming

all above combined have plausible solution based on proven feedback of TB2, Anka at Wars in Lybia, Syria ,Karabakh, Ukraine.
Solution is already there

C'mon! age of manned fighters is not over however satellite connection could also be jammed , satellites could be destroyed etc...

İnstead of 1 f-35, 4 Manned Compact stealth fighters would be not bad.

Like Kaplan STA Land vehicles.

 

[Rodeo]

I wonder whether Baykar is considering a manned version of KE.

I would bet my house they consider no such things. Selçuk Bayraktar is very vocal about developing manned fighters and he thinks it's a waste of resources. Albeit somewhat subtly, he even picks on TFX for this very reason .

 

[Afif]

I would bet my house they consider no such things. Selçuk Bayraktar is very vocal about developing manned fighters and he thinks it's a waste of resources. Albeit somewhat subtly, he even picks on TFX for this very reason .

nuh, with respect to him, even the upcoming 6xth gen fighters are manned.

 

[Oublious]

I like to call MIUS an 'outstanding air superiority fighter drone' with air to ground capability.
But I don't think it is possible to make it a manned aircaft with the existing design. It have to be a completely new design!
And About the RCS of KE here is an estimation

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506932248859267074

KE should gave lower RCS then F35 and F22.

 

[Afif]

KE should gave lower RCS then F35 and F22.

i am not that sure. @Yasar

 

[UkroTurk]

A manned KizilElma would be a direct competitor to the TF-X. + manned aircraft are in a complete different league. Not for Baykar in my opinion.

Noway. We are speaking about a light fighter which has 17kN Ukrainian engine while MMU has twin 100kN.
Two different range and payload capacities.

Manned MIUS would kill HÜRJET project.

But I don't think it is possible to make it a manned aircaft with the existing design. It have to be a completely new design!

Agreed but it won't be expensive and impossible. BTW we haven't seen the twin engine MIUS design so twin engine design could allow new manned fuselage.

 

[Heartbang]

View attachment 48917

Since KızılElma is considered as Stealth, would it be wise designing Manned Version of KızılElma?

I would prefer Manned KızılElma rather than Hürjet because Kızılelma has lower RCS. Also Ukrainian engines relatively cheaper and easy to copy.

View attachment 48919

What would you say about manned Kızılelma style compact stealth fighters?

View attachment 48920


I Really wonder if RCS of Kızılelma is nearly as same as F-35.

İmagine 4or 6 a2a missiles in the stealth and manned fighters.

imagine TurAF have 100 compact manned stealth fighters with Turkish AESA radars and BVR missiles!!
View attachment 48921

İn case of Electronic Attack, how could you manage a fighter from 500km ?

How could an unmanned fighter defeat a fighter pilot?

I don't say " unmanned Kızılelma is inefficient" but some of them could be manned.

its quoted to have 3 internal hardpoints tho, thats suboptimal

 

[UkroTurk]

its quoted to have 3 internal hardpoints tho, thats suboptimal

F-35 has 2.5 ton internal payload capacity but MIUS will have 1.5t .
More than half.

Number of weapon bays is not important, the volume of bays more important. İf you could doublepacked a2a missiles in 3 internal bay it would be enough.

Please notice instead of one f-35 you will have 4-5 MIUS. They would attack like wolfpack.

 

[UkroTurk]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462749854212542467

So why would not TUSAŞ not able to get Ukrainian engines but Baykar?

Up

 

[Zafer]

An F16 size plane made with one of the TFX engines would be great. Would be cheaper than the TFX and would sell better.

 

[Brokengineer]

F-35 has 2.5 ton internal payload capacity but MIUS will have 1.5t .
More than half.

Number of weapon bays is not important, the volume of bays more important. İf you could doublepacked a2a missiles in 3 internal bay it would be enough.

Please notice instead of one f-35 you will have 4-5 MIUS. They would attack like wolfpack.

Is there any reference 1500kg is internal payload capacity. It is probably with external hardpoints. In rexent interviews, mr Selcuk stated, it is around 2t of payload KE will have.
Even putting 2 bvr and 2 çakir or kgk82 size bomb inside of drone, would be huge success. I think, it can only accomodate 4 bvr missiles.

 

[Radko]

Is there any reference 1500kg is internal payload capacity. It is probably with external hardpoints. In rexent interviews, mr Selcuk stated, it is around 2t of payload KE will have.
Even putting 2 bvr and 2 çakir or kgk82 size bomb inside of drone, would be huge success. I think, it can only accomodate 4 bvr missiles.

i think it would be able to do 1 SOM-J + 2WVR or 2-3BVR+2 WVR internally

 

[Baris]

Could we potentially test Kargı drones in Ukraine ? Would be a good pr move too.

 

[Radko]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581905583078223872

TAI's wingman project is not dead!

 

[Yasar_TR]

i am not that sure. @Yasar

It all depends on how much of TFX stealth know how has been shared with Baykar. Delta wing and overall stealthy appearance and flat looking surfaces shout that this is a stealthy plane.
I Sunnetci, who has good access to many a secretive information, has stated that “KE should have better RCS values than TB2”.
But unless a definite information is released from Baykar, we can only speculate. Below Infograph shows a study someone has done with respect to KE’s overall appearance and shape, and come up with a somehow fairly respectable 0.24m2 value on X band . This plane is going to have RAM paint on it as well. So it is not as cut and dry as some may make it out to be. It is definitely smaller in size than any manned stealth plane. So it starts with a definite advantage. But is it going to be stealthier than a 80millon dollar F35 (that took nearly half a trillion dollar to develop), or 200million dollar F22? That is anybody’s guess.
But as it won’t carry a life onboard and will be comparatively a great deal cheaper than it’s manned counterparts, is it justifiable to spend huge amounts of money to squeeze out every ounce of stealth from this plane? An optimum stealthiness that will allow it to carry out deep strikes and register a kill without getting killed from stand off distances should suffice.

 

[Zafer]

Could we potentially test Kargı drones in Ukraine ? Would be a good pr move too.

No we can't, they have a big punch and it will hurt us too.
Better be it in Libya or Syria or somewhere in Central Asia where we are facing Russia and Iran.

 

[Radko]

It all depends on how much of TFX stealth know how has been shared with Baykar. Delta wing and overall stealthy appearance and flat looking surfaces shout that this is a stealthy plane.
I Sunnetci, who has good access to many a secretive information, has stated that “KE should have better RCS values than TB2”.
But unless a definite information is released from Baykar, we can only speculate. Below Infograph shows a study someone has done with respect to KE’s overall appearance and shape, and come up with a somehow fairly respectable 0.24m2 value on X band . This plane is going to have RAM paint on it as well. So it is not as cut and dry as some may make it out to be. It is definitely smaller in size than any manned stealth plane. So it starts with a definite advantage. But is it going to be stealthier than a 80millon dollar F35 (that took nearly half a trillion dollar to develop), or 200million dollar F22? That is anybody’s guess.
But as it won’t carry a life onboard and will be comparatively a great deal cheaper than it’s manned counterparts, is it justifiable to spend huge amounts of money to squeeze out every ounce of stealth from this plane? An optimum stealthiness that will allow it to carry out deep strikes and register a kill without getting killed from stand off distances should suffice.
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A thing not to forget, this simulation doesn't include the newer (and latest) model or any RAM/Leading/Trailing edge covers, real RCS will be much much lower