TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[I_Love_F16]

Not with those pricetags.

It will be worse when Altay is even more pricey than the K2.

 

[Hasanrize]

Not with those pricetags.

That price tag is for a tank that exists.

Also, the European market is not so easy to take for Türkiye. I said this before, buying a final product from Türkiye is too much for much European pride. Even drones that have proven and hardened in battles failed to find customers, except for Poland.

 

[Pilatino]

It will be worse when Altay is even more pricey than the K2.

You're wrong. Excellent engineering education but cheap workforce can do miracles.

 

[B_A]

You‘ll need German permission to get Leo2s from other states like Spain. Anyway, if Europeans decide to send Leos into Ukraine there won‘t be much left for sale. All European militaries combined have only 2000-2200 Leo2 variants deployed

So can only buy K-2 just like poland....

You are the winner in world tank export market

 

[B_A]

Who could that be in Europe? Possibly Albania and Bosnia . Spain as an offset for Navantia sales … any other candidates?

Eastern European Countries.România,Hungary,Ukraine,Lithuania....

West european countries (UK,France,Italy...)now only 200 tanks each and they willnot buy any new tanks

 

[Kedikesenfare]

Most probably, Korea will dominate that market.

I do think so, too. A Western European country purchasing modern tanks from Turkey? Right now, this sounds too good to be true. If it happens, though, it would mean that Turkey has reached a level of technological sophistication pretty much on par with countries like France or Germany. I highly doubt that Westerners are going to help Turkey establish such an image on the global markets.

Plus, many people are overlooking a new trend in Western Europe. The industry is setting up new production lines all over the place, even in Germany.

They're not going to share their profits with Korean or Turkish manufacturers without a fight.

Any shortage on tanks and other tracked vehicles in the West is going to be a short-term problem. This is for sure.

 

[B_A]

That price tag is for a tank that exists.

Also, the European market is not so easy to take for Türkiye. I said this before, buying a final product from Türkiye is too much for much European pride. Even drones that have proven and hardened in battles failed to find customers, except for Poland.

Albania and Ukraine stills European

 

[B_A]

I do think so, too. A Western European country purchasing modern tanks from Turkey? Right now, this sounds too good to be true. If it happens, though, it would mean that Turkey has reached a level of technological sophistication pretty much on par with countries like France or Germany. I highly doubt that Westerners are going to help Turkey establish such an image on the global markets.

Plus, many people are overlooking a new trend in Western Europe. The industry is setting up new production lines all over the place, even in Germany.

They're not going to share their profits with Korean or Turkish manufacturers without a fight.

Any shortage on tanks and other tracked vehicles in the West is going to be a short-term problem. This is for sure.

Western European countries are dropping Tanks

They will not buy from anyone

UK and France had only 200-300 Tank right now and will not buy any more.

 

[Kedikesenfare]

That price tag is for a tank that exists.

Also, the European market is not so easy to take for Türkiye. I said this before, buying a final product from Türkiye is too much for much European pride. Even drones that have proven and hardened in battles failed to find customers, except for Poland.

Eastern European nations are different. They indeed would buy Turkish products, in fact, they already are customers of the Turkish defense industry.

Western Europeans on the other hand are purposefully avoiding any product that comes out of a Turkish facility.

Perhaps the Spanish and Italians could be convinced by the quality and reliability of our systems but no West and North European country is gonna touch even a Turkish product catalogue in the foreseeable future.

People with zero knowledge often claim that Europeans practically gifted us with their tech and knowledge to build our own industry, which ofc is a BS fairytale.

They don't even let us join programs where our knowledge and production capabilities would benefit them immensely.

 

[B_A]

Western Europeans will buy more wheeled vehicles but i dont think they will import any MBT within 20 years

 

[Kedikesenfare]

Western European countries are dropping Tanks

They will not buy from anyone

UK and France had only 200-300 Tank right now and will not buy any more.

No, they're not dropping tanks. This is a myth.

 

[Heartbang]

Any shortage on tanks and other tracked vehicles in the West is going to be a short-term problem. This is for sure.

I disagree with that. The problem's not on manufacturing side, its on the material side.

There are reports of German tank manufacturing facing severe bottlenecks due to them importing the necessary titanium from, of all places, Russia.

China and Russia are #1 and #3 in titanium production respectively. Japan is #2, Ukraine is #6, Kazakhstan is #5.

By not cutting ties with Russia, we have managed to basically take ahold of all European tank market. The French and German plants are silent. The Koreans and the Americans won't be able to keep up.

We won by default.

 

[B_A]

No, they're not dropping tanks. This is a myth.

They dropped the generation of Altay Tank,maybe they will invest the next generation.

But not ALtay or K-2 which almost same spec with Leo2A6 or M1A2 or challenger 2

ALtay or K-2 or Japanese Type 10 or Chinese Type 99 are the same generation with Leo2A6 or M1A2 or challenger 2,and delayed for 20-30years

 

[Kedikesenfare]

I disagree with that. The problem's not on manufacturing side, its on the material side.

There are reports of German tank manufacturing facing severe bottlenecks due to them importing the necessary titanium from, of all places, Russia.

China and Russia are #1 and #3 in titanium production respectively. Japan is #2, Ukraine is #6, Kazakhstan is #5.

By not cutting ties with Russia, we have managed to basically take ahold of all European tank market. The French and German plants are silent. The Koreans and the Americans won't be able to keep up.

We won by default.

The biggest strategic mistake one can make is to assume that the competition is sleeping and doing nothing.

The German Parliamentary Commissioner for the Armed Forces is demanding another 200 billion EUR funding for the military to purchase more systems AND establish new production lines.

Wehrbeauftragte Eva Högl: Bundeswehr bräuchte 300 Milliarden Euro

Die 100 Milliarden Euro Sondervermögen reichten bei weitem nicht für die Modernisierung der Bundeswehr, kritisiert Högl. Sie fordert mehr Geld, neue Produktionslinien. Und Soldaten sollen ihre Panzer auch selbst reparieren dürfen.

m.faz.net

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[Bürküt]

It will be worse when Altay is even more pricey than the K2.

It will be too expensive even for Turkish Armed Forces. I'm not optimistic in this issues.It took so long.A lot of money has been spent when localizing many subsystems. Even 10 years ago it was going to be expensive.So many things have been changed in the tank. Even rich Europeans have such ridiculous numbers,how can we afford the good numbers

 

[Chocopie]

So can only buy K-2 just like poland....

You are the winner in world tank export market

I‘m not so sure about that. Germans and Americans are still leaders and with innovative prototypes like KF-51 and AbramsX with 130 mm gun, autoloaders, hard kill APS, unmanned turret, ammo compartment etc. aren‘t giving up their market shares lightly

 

[Pilatino]

I‘m not so sure about that. Germans and Americans are still leaders and with innovative prototypes like KF-51 and AbramsX with 130 mm gun, autoloaders, hard kill APS, unmanned turret, ammo compartment etc. aren‘t giving up their market shares lightly

You're very patient btw I would be triggered 10 times when I read some messages from our side about tanks.

We would make our own tank alone but it would take much more time (actually we've learnt that the time doesn't matter thx to Germans) . However, Korean brothers helped us to build it afaik so we should be more polite against them I guess.

 

[B_A]

I‘m not so sure about that. Germans and Americans are still leaders and with innovative prototypes like KF-51 and AbramsX with 130 mm gun, autoloaders, hard kill APS, unmanned turret, ammo compartment etc. aren‘t giving up their market shares lightly

These new tanks will not in production within 5-10years,maybe wait for years and replace their own M1 and Leo2 firstly,number of the cold war Tanks were too large

When KF-51 and AbramsX finally come,maybe you starts K3 Tank

K2 and altay are basely 1980s MBT with 2020 technology,

i think 2030s there will be a total new generation of MBT

 

[Chocopie]

Germany and France are cooperating in the Main Ground Combat System program (part of it is a new main battle tank). As we know them this will end in yells and tears and the result will be a f*cking unreliable mess like NH90 or Tiger attack heli.

Italy‘s Ariete tank is ages old but last I heard, they modernized it somewhat.

UK recently upgraded their Challenger 2 to 3 standard.

Hungary ordered Leo 2A7 in 2018. Got 2 tanks delivered in 2022 (Greeks are building the raw hulls and Germans craft them slowly by hand in Bavaria - German efficiency at its worst ).

Sweden and Finland aren‘t in good relations with Turkey right now to put it mildly.

Norway had a MBT tender K2 against Leo 2A7, but the new armed forces chief changed defense doctrine and don‘t what to pursue tanks at all. His lower ranking officers are protesting against his decision, a total mess.

Romania is looking for new MBT. Dunno if EU helps them financing the procurement (if so, then Brussels circus starts meddling in).

Greece? Makes Leo hulls and other minor reasons against a Turkish tank

As of now: Europe is divided and undecided

 

[B_A]

Germany and France are cooperating in the Main Ground Combat System program (part of it is a new main battle tank). As we know them this will end in yells and tears and the end result will be a f*cking unreliable mess like NH90 or Tiger attack heli.

Italy‘s Ariete tank is ages old but last I heard, they modernized it somewhat.

UK recently upgraded their Challenger 2 to 3 standard.

Hungary ordered Leo 2A7 in 2018. Got 2 tanks delivered in 2022 (Greek are building the raw hulls and Germans craft them slowly by hand in Bavaria - German efficiency at its worst ).

Sweden and Finland aren‘t in good relations with Turkey right now to put it mildly.

Norway had a MBT tender K2 against Leo 2A7, but the new armed forces chief changed defense doctrine and don‘t what to pursue tanks at all. His lower ranking officers are protesting against his decision, a total mess.


Romania is looking for new MBT. Dunno if EU helps them financing the procurement (if so, then Brussels circus starts meddling in).

Greece? Makes Leo hulls and other minor reasons against a Turkish tank

As of now: Europe is divided and undecided

I think 2020s east europe will buy K2 or Altay to defend themself from Russian

And 2030s a totally new generation came,all K2,ALtay,M1,Leo2 became the situation of M60/T72 nowsday.

The west european will wait the new generation.