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Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War
- Thread starter Kartal1
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2A6 version also coming
Not clear if it's Germany or Netherladns who is going to send 2A6 or both:
www.faz.net
Not clear if it's Germany or Netherladns who is going to send 2A6 or both:
Kampfpanzer: Auch Niederlande erwägen Leopard-Lieferungen an Ukraine
Nach Polen, Finnland und Portugal denken nun die Niederlande über Panzer-Lieferungen nach. Man könne 18 von Deutschland geleaste Leopard 2 kaufen und der Ukraine spenden, sagt Ministerpräsident Mark Rutte der F.A.Z.
www.faz.net
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I suspect that we'll be looking at roughly the following in terms of initial Leopard 2 donations...
Germany: 15× (2A6)
Rheinmetall: 22× (2A4)
Poland: 14x (2PL)
Spain: 8x (2A4)
Finland: 8× (2A4)
Sweden: 8x (2A4)
Norway: 6x (2A4)
Slovakia: 15x (2A4)
Czech Republic: 15x (2A4)
I'll be surprised if countries such as Canada, Denmark, Austria, Portugal, Greece, Turkey or Netherlands are willing to part with any of their Leo 2's initially.
Germany: 15× (2A6)
Rheinmetall: 22× (2A4)
Poland: 14x (2PL)
Spain: 8x (2A4)
Finland: 8× (2A4)
Sweden: 8x (2A4)
Norway: 6x (2A4)
Slovakia: 15x (2A4)
Czech Republic: 15x (2A4)
I'll be surprised if countries such as Canada, Denmark, Austria, Portugal, Greece, Turkey or Netherlands are willing to part with any of their Leo 2's initially.
The Swedish Strv 122 is approximately a 2A5, upgraded from 2A4 but with french smoke launchers...
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That's fair! Thanks for the correction.
Latebra Factum
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Now , we will get to see the German ground warfare systems in action ( Leopard 2A6,Marder IFV …) , along the legendary US made M1 Abrams , i think they will send the A1 version .
Latebra Factum
Well-known member
and finally , earth becomes a radioactive pile of dust , the end .
Gary
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2022 Kharkiv counteroffensive - Wikipedia
2022 Kherson counteroffensive - Wikipedia
| Date | 29 August – 11 November 2022 (2 months, 1 week and 6 days) |
|---|---|
| Location | Southern Ukraine (Kherson and Mykolaiv oblasts) |
| Result | Ukrainian victory[3][4][5][6]
|
All those weapons were game changers, which is why Russia has lost more than 1500 tanks and most of its professional fighting force, VDV does not even exist anymore, Moskva is on the bottom of the Black Sea and HIMARS continue to target Russian supply lines deep behind enemy lines, with Russia unable to even destroy a single HIMARS, but no no, Russia is definitely winning this war LOL
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Per the New York Times (quoting a source close to the situation), the Biden administration will send an initial batch of 30-50 M1A1 Abrams MBTs to Ukraine and the decision could be shared as soon as this week. However, The United States tends to announce military aid packages for Ukraine every other week and we just a got a new one late last week. Therefore, we might have to wait until next Thursday or Friday before we actually hear the details of the package.
Reminder that the U.S. Congress passed a $1.7 Trillion bill in the fall that included $45 Billion in aid for a variety of aid measures for Ukraine and Eastern Europe. The package included roughly $21 Billion in Presidential Drawdown Authority for the Biden Government to donate to weapons to Ukraine from their existing weapons inventory. The Biden Government has since exhausted Approximately $5.5 Billion of that drawdown authority between the first and second packages sent in 2023. That means roughly $15.5 Billion in drawdown authority remains, which is plenty of money send quite a few more robust packages, the sorts of which we've seen lately.
If Russia to going to claim "victory" at the end of this war, the United States (in conjunction with NATO) are going to ensure that the Russian military is battered for a generation and that the great Soviet weapons stockpile is reduced is reduced enormously.
Here is the craziest part. Outside of ammunition, the United States doesn't have to take anything out of service with their regular Armed Forces in order to supply Ukraine. All of the mechanized systems, vehicles, and eventual aircraft that the United States will send, will be stored equipment, already slated and planned for replacement.
Reminder that the U.S. Congress passed a $1.7 Trillion bill in the fall that included $45 Billion in aid for a variety of aid measures for Ukraine and Eastern Europe. The package included roughly $21 Billion in Presidential Drawdown Authority for the Biden Government to donate to weapons to Ukraine from their existing weapons inventory. The Biden Government has since exhausted Approximately $5.5 Billion of that drawdown authority between the first and second packages sent in 2023. That means roughly $15.5 Billion in drawdown authority remains, which is plenty of money send quite a few more robust packages, the sorts of which we've seen lately.
If Russia to going to claim "victory" at the end of this war, the United States (in conjunction with NATO) are going to ensure that the Russian military is battered for a generation and that the great Soviet weapons stockpile is reduced is reduced enormously.
Here is the craziest part. Outside of ammunition, the United States doesn't have to take anything out of service with their regular Armed Forces in order to supply Ukraine. All of the mechanized systems, vehicles, and eventual aircraft that the United States will send, will be stored equipment, already slated and planned for replacement.
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Not to mention, they had to withdraw from the entirety of the Kyiv region, the entirety of the Kharkiv region and the majority of the Kherson region because they overextended and were getting massacred, while they they ran out of supplies due to horrendous logistics. Yes, they're doing better during their current offensive in the South, but that's because they consolidated the remains of their entire initial invading force, emptied their prisons and got Wagner into the fight as well. They've now focused all of their resources on a single region and they've making progress as a snail's pace, vs a Ukrainian Military that is only going to get stronger, rather than weaker, as Western Brigades and Battalions of heavy equipment arrive en masse, used my troops trained by NATO, across Europe.
Also... There is a dirty little secret that Russia doesn't want people to know. They can't keep up this pace of artillery ammunition usage, especially as Ukraine uses their HIMARS systems to selectively destroy Russian stockpiles, hastening the rate at which the artillery shells are burned through. Russia was using approximately 20,000 artillery shells per day earlier in the war. That pace has now dropped to 5000-7000 shells per day, in an attempt to spare ammunition, as they were using it at a pace that far out stripped Russian manufacturing capability.
true, Germany just digging its own graveAnd big balls on Polish side
Yeah I think it would do a job job against RU but I doubt there are enough Gripens to not hurt national defense capabilities and Sweden alone to be able to deploy a serious logistic/maintenance for the jets.
Sweden is one of the most active helpers to Ukraine, as we have seen on their latest package sending their latest weapons, but probably they are the only ones with capacity to ship them to UKR. (Hungary, what are you doing?) But I won't be surprised at all if they appear later.
Also we shouldn't forget who is mainly backing the war and spending most of the money on it. So I don't have doubts that US would like to have their's F-16 in UKR and form a coallition of countries (like Poland, Netherlands, Denmark) to ensure those are replaced and improve US national defense companies health with new contracts.
Just seeing the operators map seems a good idea, and it would help to keep their defense industry influence over Europe.
Other thing is, there are plenty of them, also spare parts and maintenance facilities in Nederlands, (Bydgoszcz, Poland, Is it finished?) to quickly refurbrish them.
What we are seeing now is how Germans are losing political influence on defense goods in Europe. Who wants to buy things you can't send to a friendly country who has importance for your national interests?? I don't know what Germany gains delaying the Leopard issue, but it's clear what they are losing.
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I had no idea the Ukraine war was over.View attachment 53025
2022 Kharkiv counteroffensive - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
2022 Kherson counteroffensive - Wikipedia
Date 29 August – 11 November 2022
(2 months, 1 week and 6 days)Location Southern Ukraine (Kherson and Mykolaiv oblasts) Result Ukrainian victory[3][4][5][6]
- Collapse of the Russian military–civilian administration in Mykolaiv Oblast
- Russian military forces announce withdrawal to the east bank of the Dnieper[7]
- Ukraine recaptures all remaining occupied territory in Mykolaiv Oblast (except the Kinburn Peninsula) and the portion of Kherson Oblast west of the Dnieper, including the city of Kherson[7]
- Continued Ukrainian offensive military operations at the other bank of the Dnieper
What would you do Gary if AFU approached you?
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Andrey Koshkin: Now is an extremely important stage, we have seized the initiative in Ukraine https://jpgazeta.ru/andrej-koshkin-...ziativu-na-ukraine/?utm_source=politobzor.net
Andrey Koshkin - Head of the Department of Political Science and Sociology of Plekhanov Russian University of Economics, political scientist, military expert.
25.01.2023
Ukraine is carrying out the largest mobilization in Transcarpathia since the beginning of the SMO, the Hungarian newspaper Pesti Srácok reports with reference to local residents.
Political scientist Andrey Koshkin explained to the readers of Journalistic Pravda what caused such actions on the part of Ukraine.
"This suggests that the West is seriously worried. This excitement was expressed by Lloyd Austin, speaking at the American base in Germany during the work of the contact group on the defense of Ukraine and countering Russia. He said that now is an extremely important stage. What is the importance of this stage? Russia has resources, mobilization has been carried out, the entire military-industrial complex has been put on the rails of the mobilization economy. The whole world knows about it. We have very actively seized the initiative in Ukraine. This causes serious concern, because the APU has no reserves. They want to have the appropriate resources. In order for them, as they said, to be able to go to the Crimean peninsula. That's all. Today they are gathering mobilization resources, trying to gather refugees from other states to put them under arms, and create this reserve."
Please note that the following extremist and terrorist organizations are banned in the Russian Federation: Jehovah's Witnesses, National Bolshevik Party, Right Sector, Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), Islamic State (IS, ISIS, Daesh), Jabhat Fatah al-Sham,Jabhat al-Nusra", "Al-Qaeda", "UNA-UNSO", "Taliban", "Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people", "Misanthropic Division", "Brotherhood" of Korchinsky, "Trident im. Stepan Bandera", "Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists" (OUN).
Andrey Koshkin - Head of the Department of Political Science and Sociology of Plekhanov Russian University of Economics, political scientist, military expert.
25.01.2023
Ukraine is carrying out the largest mobilization in Transcarpathia since the beginning of the SMO, the Hungarian newspaper Pesti Srácok reports with reference to local residents.
Political scientist Andrey Koshkin explained to the readers of Journalistic Pravda what caused such actions on the part of Ukraine.
"This suggests that the West is seriously worried. This excitement was expressed by Lloyd Austin, speaking at the American base in Germany during the work of the contact group on the defense of Ukraine and countering Russia. He said that now is an extremely important stage. What is the importance of this stage? Russia has resources, mobilization has been carried out, the entire military-industrial complex has been put on the rails of the mobilization economy. The whole world knows about it. We have very actively seized the initiative in Ukraine. This causes serious concern, because the APU has no reserves. They want to have the appropriate resources. In order for them, as they said, to be able to go to the Crimean peninsula. That's all. Today they are gathering mobilization resources, trying to gather refugees from other states to put them under arms, and create this reserve."
Please note that the following extremist and terrorist organizations are banned in the Russian Federation: Jehovah's Witnesses, National Bolshevik Party, Right Sector, Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), Islamic State (IS, ISIS, Daesh), Jabhat Fatah al-Sham,Jabhat al-Nusra", "Al-Qaeda", "UNA-UNSO", "Taliban", "Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people", "Misanthropic Division", "Brotherhood" of Korchinsky, "Trident im. Stepan Bandera", "Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists" (OUN).
And big balls on Polish side
Yeah I think it would do a job job against RU but I doubt there are enough Gripens to not hurt national defense capabilities and Sweden alone to be able to deploy a serious logistic/maintenance for the jets.
Sweden is one of the most active helpers to Ukraine, as we have seen on their latest package sending their latest weapons, but probably they are the only ones with capacity to ship them to UKR. (Hungary, what are you doing?) But I won't be surprised at all if they appear later.
Also we shouldn't forget who is mainly backing the war and spending most of the money on it. So I don't have doubts that US would like to have their's F-16 in UKR and form a coallition of countries (like Poland, Netherlands, Denmark) to ensure those are replaced and improve US national defense companies health with new contracts.
Just seeing the operators map seems a good idea, and it would help to keep their defense industry influence over Europe.
Other thing is, there are plenty of them, also spare parts and maintenance facilities in Nederlands, (Bydgoszcz, Poland, Is it finished?) to quickly refurbrish them.
What we are seeing now is how Germans are losing political influence on defense goods in Europe. Who wants to buy things you can't send to a friendly country who has importance for your national interests?? I don't know what Germany gains delaying the Leopard issue, but it's clear what they are losing.
I think this has been a fairly painful reverse course for the Germans, paired with a leader who, by accounts, really don't like to make a decision before it's become an inevitability. Furthermore, I'm sure they are thinking of the next round of tank sales where they have to weigh sending tanks with the very likely possibility of pictures of knocked out Leopards floating around the internet while the Abrams or Leclerc get to keep their (relatively) pristine reputation.
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Sweden's defense minister, Pål Jonson has opened the door for sending some of Sweden's 120 Leopard 2's to Ukraine, although no donation is imminent at the moment. The armed forces is first and foremost focused on delivering the promised Archer-systems and CV-90s over the short term.
(swedish source)
www.dn.se
(swedish source)
Regeringen utesluter inte att skicka stridsvagnar till Ukraina
På onsdagen väntas Tysklands förbundskansler Olaf Scholz bekräfta att landet skickar stridsvagnar till Ukraina. Nu överväger Sverige egna leveranser.
www.dn.se
Dmr
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Those CV 90 Sweden plans to donate,will they be from Swedish army stock(the ones with Bofors 40 mm cannon) or some export versions?Sweden's defense minister, Pål Jonson has opened the door for sending some of Sweden's 120 Leopard 2's to Ukraine, although no donation is imminent at the moment. The armed forces is first and foremost focused on delivering the promised Archer-systems and CV-90s over the short term.
(swedish source)
Regeringen utesluter inte att skicka stridsvagnar till Ukraina
På onsdagen väntas Tysklands förbundskansler Olaf Scholz bekräfta att landet skickar stridsvagnar till Ukraina. Nu överväger Sverige egna leveranser.
