TR Economy & Updates

[Xenon54]

Sorry but no, Japan is much more expensive than Turkey.

In direct comparison yes but a japanese also earns 10 times the salary of an average Turk hence why i wrote ''based on local salaries''.

Sorry again, but we ain't living in the 70's, brother. Just because something is shiny, doesn't mean it's precious.

In 2023, the average Japanese worker can't even afford an apartment half the size of the average Turkish flat built after the year 2005.

Japan has many, many advantages over Turkey but the cost of living ain't one.

Regarding housing thats because you usually dont buy a second hand home, in Japan you build new which is naturally more expensive than a second hand.
Besides, tell me how an average earning Turk can afford real estate these days, the prices exploded in the last decade.

I know of a family consisting of a Turkish man and a Japanese woman. They prefer to live in Türkiye for its economy conditions after they spent several years in Japan.

Individual family situations dont prove your point either, maybe the man has a better job in Turkey than the woman in japan so they ofcourse have a better life in Turkey.
Maybe they accumulated a lot Yen that is like a fortune in Turkey nowso they can relax with the exchange rate...

 

[Lool]

You guys cant really compare the standards of living of 2 different countries with different geographical implications and different ways of life

Japan and Turkey cant be compared but you can compare Turkey with nations like Egypt, Italy, Spain, and even the USA since their habitual acts, diets, amd lifestyles are closely related to each other but not japan

 

[Xenon54]

You guys cant really compare the standards of living of 2 different countries with different geographical implications and different ways of life

Japan and Turkey cant be compared but you can compare Turkey with nations like Egypt, Italy, Spain, and even the USA since their habitual acts, diets, amd lifestyles are closely related to each other but not japan

Actually economic comparison is possible, math is universal so i dont see why a comparison is supposed to be impossible.
Sure cultural factors also play a role but a comparsion of living standarts is very well possible.

 

[Afif]

It is near impossible to compare GDP against PPP on a macro level and get an accurate reading as @Nilgiri explained it very thoroughly.
Even though, i am not very good with Economics but i like to share my own opinion.

So, to the matter in hand, even on a individual level PPP does not do very much when you live in free market capitalist economy.
I mean, think about that, and this is true more or less across the developing nations, ( depending on the stage of development ) When we want to buy special clothing or a watch we barely choose anything local. same goes with electrical home appliances. if we have good enough money most of the time we go with world renowned brands like Apple, Samsung or something like.
And when it comes to buying cars well......this is the obvious one. If you can afford a BMW or Tesla you ain't looking back at anything else.

Only area PPP can be counted for somewhat fairly, when you buy an apartment or a house or rent one and in your daily meals.

Along with these you should also add THE VERY IMPORTANT FACT OF INCOME INEQUALITY which is usually overlooked in these conversations.
I was surprised to find out that, income inequality in Turkey is worse than even Bangladesh. this fact should be worrying considering Turkey is not a third world country and fairly advanced and modern nation.

World map of income inequality Gini coefficients by country. Based on World Bank data ranging from 1992 to 2020.

I understand, there are variety of conflicting articles on this topic. However, according to this one

Turkey's richest 10 percent takes more than half of national income

The latest World Inequality Report, released by the World Inequality Lab at the Paris School of Economics, found that the richest 10 percent of the Turkish population captures 54.5 percent of the total income while the bottom 50 percent takes a mere 12 percent.

www.duvarenglish.com

Turkey's bottom 50% poor class possesses 4% of the total national wealth. On the other hand, the 40% middle class owns 29% of the total national wealth, whereas the 10% rich owns 67% of the national wealth.


So, even if this data is not 90% accurate ( and probably it is not ) still, i think that may somehwat help to explain, why average people in Turkey cannot afford what it seems they should afford, at the first glance at GDP figures.

 

[Xenon54]

It is near impossible to compare GDP against PPP on a macro level and get an accurate reading as @Nilgiri explained it very thoroughly.
Even though, i am not very good with economic but i like to share my opinion.

So, to the matter in hand, even on a personal level PPP does not do very much when you live in free market capitalist economy.
I mean, think about that, and this is true more or less across the developing nations, ( depending on the stage of development ) When we want to buy special clothing or a watch we barely choose anything local. same goes with electrical home appliances. if we have good enough money most of the time we go with world renowned brands like Apple, Samsung or something like.
And when it comes to buying cars well......this is the obvious one. If you can afford a BMW or Tesla you ain't looking back at anything else.

Only area PPP can be counted for somewhat fairly, when you buy an apartment or a house or rent one and in your daily meals.

Along with these you should also add THE VERY IMPORTANT FACT OF INCOME INEQUALITY which is usually overlooked in these conversation.
I was surprised to find out that, income inequality in Turkey is worse than even Bangladesh. this fact should be worrying considering Turkey is not a third world country and fairly advanced and modern nation.
View attachment 53017
World map of income inequality Gini coefficients by country. Based on World Bank data ranging from 1992 to 2020.

I understand, there are variety of conflicting articles about this topic. However, according to this one

Turkey's richest 10 percent takes more than half of national income

The latest World Inequality Report, released by the World Inequality Lab at the Paris School of Economics, found that the richest 10 percent of the Turkish population captures 54.5 percent of the total income while the bottom 50 percent takes a mere 12 percent.

www.duvarenglish.com

Turkey's bottom 50% poor class possesses 4% of the total national wealth. On the other hand, the 40% middle class owns 29% of the total national wealth, whereas the 10% rich owns 67% of the national wealth.


So, even if this data is no 90% accurate ( and probably it is not ) still, i think that may help to explain, why average people in Turkey cannot afford what it seems they should afford, at the first glance at GDP figures.

Turkish middle income class is being eradicated more and more, the high inflation basically equalized the salaries of people who earn minimum wage and those who should be earning more according to their education.
You end up with either rich who have their income and wealth in stable currencies and investments and everybody else who are losing more and more of their assets due to inflation and currency fluctuations.

The signs are clear there was no reason to cherry pick stuff and drag the discussion further its ridiculous at this point, the fact that over 60% of Turkish youth wants to leave the country says everything.
Sugar coating the situation wont fix it, if anything it will just worsen...

 

[B_A]

I know of a family consisting of a Turkish man and a Japanese woman. They prefer to live in Türkiye for its economy conditions after they spent several years in Japan.

Me too
After graduated from a famous Japanese university and worked for 10 years that got permanent residence permit .

japan is decline and falling.

Turkiye had a hard time these 5 years but it will rise again

 

[I_Love_F16]

Me too
After graduated from a famous Japanese university and worked for 10 years that got permanent residence permit .

japan is decline and falling.

Turkiye had a hard time these 5 years but it will rise again

Yeah Turkiye will rise again … That’s why everybody wants to leave it.

 

[Zafer]

Yeah Turkiye will rise again … That’s why everybody wants to leave it.

Which everybody is that ?

 

[I_Love_F16]

Which everybody is that ?

Young people, students … Even those who are a bit older. Basically the future hope of the country.

 

[B_A]

Yeah Turkiye will rise again … That’s why everybody wants to leave it.

People are coming to Türkiye

And people are leaving China and Russia

 

[Zafer]

Young people, students … Even those who are a bit older. Basically the future hope of the country.

There has always been people in any country who hope to find better opportunities for them to flourish in business and in life. They are people who think they will be better valued in some other land. Canadians now want to flee the country because of high cost of life. Americans go to countries like Thailand to live. Russians go abroad, so do Ukrainians. Looking at the big picture economy of Türkiye is in a period when global conjecture gives us an opportunity to flourish. Industrial production, construction works, agriculture and every other field of economy are being managed to maximize productivity and growth. Government make every move to vitalize the economy including unorthodox moves which seem to take hold. We have come out of a pandemic period and war in Ukraine came on top of it. Economies of the world have been shaken at various degrees but Türkiye has weathered the storm pretty well and the future looks brighter than ever. National oil and gas resources are being tapped into as well as other natural resources which comes as an added bonus to the economy which we lacked before. Reliance on national technology has reached 75-80 % on average and higher in some sectors. These are indications that a brighter future is in store for Türkiye. We will fight our way to prosperity and more and more people will find a place to realize their potential. Still there will be some who will feel out of place because of their sentimental affiliations but they will be few.

Population of Türkiye rose by 1.080.000 people last year and they all find a place in the education system. More and more people are educated in every field and they all have to compete to get to better places. This puts a stress on the youth but the situation will be remedied by taking a good portion of the youth from higher education and training them in occupational schools at high school level as the industry demands it. This will relax the search for opportunities abroad as more people will be assigned to the right occupations as time goes.

 

[Tornadoss]

People are coming to Türkiye

And people are leaving China and Russia

Russians because they can not go to the western countries and still Turkey is a better option from other countries.
Syrians, Afghans because Turkey is on the way to the europe.

 

[Xenon54]

People are coming to Türkiye

Yes, economic and war refugees, hardly a argument for relocation to Turkey.

 

[Kedikesenfare]

In direct comparison yes but a japanese also earns 10 times the salary of an average Turk hence why i wrote ''based on local salaries''.


Regarding housing thats because you usually dont buy a second hand home, in Japan you build new which is naturally more expensive than a second hand.
Besides, tell me how an average earning Turk can afford real estate these days, the prices exploded in the last decade.

Individual family situations dont prove your point either, maybe the man has a better job in Turkey than the woman in japan so they ofcourse have a better life in Turkey.
Maybe they accumulated a lot Yen that is like a fortune in Turkey nowso they can relax with the exchange rate...

Sorry but I'm not gonna waste my time to convince you when I have friends who live there. On top of that, my sister is just back from Japan.

Housing is more expensive, food is more expensive, medication is more expensive, eating out in a restaurant is more expensive but it's true, an iPhone is cheaper in Japan than Turkey.

On the plus side, home appliances are more affordable in TR than JP. To give you an example; my sister paid frigging 20 TRY for one (!) apple.

If I were a blue collar worker, I'd choose Turkey over Japan in a heartbeat.

By the way, the average Japanese worker is probably laughing out loud reading your posting about housing costs implying that the Japanese renting market is cheap.

However, you're free to believe whatever you want.

 

[Xenon54]

Sorry but I'm not gonna waste my time to convince you when I have friends who live there. On top of that, my sister is just back from Japan.

Housing is more expensive, food is more expensive, medication is more expensive, eating out in a restaurant is more expensive but it's true, an iPhone is cheaper in Japan than Turkey.

On the plus side, home appliances are more affordable in TR than JP. To give you an example; my sister paid frigging 20 TRY for one (!) apple.

If I were a blue collar worker, I'd choose Turkey over Japan in a heartbeat.

By the way, the average Japanese worker is probably laughing out loud reading your posting about housing costs implying that the Japanese renting market is cheap.

However, you're free to believe whatever you want.

I never said these are cheap or cheaper than in Turkey, nor did i imply anything you just have to read carefully, these are more expensive but people earn a lot more in Japan what is so hard to understand here?

I took the same source for a fair comparison, just multiply Turkish salaries by 12.

Besides i have been in Japan too, i know what food costs in restaurants.
I took Turkey, Switzerland and Japan as exsample because the PPP figures of Turkey are very odd compared to what i experienced in these countries.
How can 50l gasoline or 4kg meat cost 10% of average salary? You cross a bridge only once and 5% of your monthly income is gone. I pay 40 chf for a year for the whole motorway network in Switzerland, all bridges and tunnels are free, thats 0.5% of my monthly salary and i pay it only once a year.

-How much of his salary can vast majority of Turkish population set a side?
-How many holidays can Turks affod in a year? Not even talking about going abroad but inside Turkey.

Huge part of the ''wealth'' of Turks is due to cheap credits, everything is being bought with credits, even credit card debts get paid by another credit card.
Shenanigans like this are is only possible in Turkey, stop telling fairy tales to people here, some might even believe it.

So yeah i dont need your convincing and dont continue to claim life is cheaper in Turkey because it is not.
I would also appreciate if you didnt waste our booth times.

 

[Rodeo]

You don't need to argue much about living standards and costs. There's an excellent website that compares almost every items with their prices respectively. It's called Numbeo. For instance, i compared living in Tokyo and Istanbul. Check it out. You can change the cities to your liking.

Cost of Living Comparison Between Tokyo, Japan And Istanbul, Turkey

www.numbeo.com

 

[Xenon54]

You don't need to argue much about living standards and costs. There's excellent website that compares almost every items with their prices comparatively. It's called Numbeo. For instance, i compared living in Tokyo and Istanbul. Check it out. You can change the cities to your liking.

Cost of Living Comparison Between Tokyo, Japan And Istanbul, Turkey

www.numbeo.com

The problem with these comparisons is it does not take into account the salary differences.
Groceries are 50% cheaper in Istanbul but you earn 4x the salary in Tokyo.
In the end someone in Tokyo can still afford double the groceries even if its 50% more expensive.

Thats the point many people dont seem to get.

 

[Rodeo]

The problem with these comparisons is it does not take into account the salary differences.
Groceries are 50% cheaper in Istanbul but you earn 4x the salary in Tokyo.
In the end someone in Tokyo can still afford double the groceries even if its 50% more expensive.

Thats the point many people dont seem to get.

It does compare the salaries too. It's at the bottom of the page.

 

[Xenon54]

It does compare the salaries too. It's at the bottom of the page.

Yeah, saw it now.

Bottom line is cost of living in Istanbul is 50% cheaper but peole in Tokyo earn 5x the salary, i was even generous by saying 4x.
Well, i know where i would rather be a blue collar worker.

 

[B_A]

Yes, economic and war refugees, hardly an argument for relocation to Turkey.

The economic and war refugees who paid 250k or 400k to buy homes or bond?