Indonesia Indonesian Army,Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Darat (TNI-AD)

[Umigami]

Exactly, a nightmare.
Commander cant get full 360° view and sitoational awarenes. Hence to maintain awareness must turn the turret via gunner gun sight.

So Commander periscope need modernization. Gunner's FCS already good enough.

 

[Umigami]

Watervlet Arsenal still do under M256 name, i mean M1A2 Abram still doing great job

View attachment 53049

Jungle Leopard, and their typical homefield. Looking from the photo above, i think the L44 type gun is already suited our typical terrain.

Are you suggesting to buy SepV3 here?

 

[chiphocks]

Both gun use same Ammo, except ammo for Type 10 MBT can't be fired from other tank (Altay romored has this problem too)

It will depends on market and doctrine of the user. While in Indonesia expect battle with tank happend in urban or vast jungle, you will not push MBT into ricefield, not even US try to do that even if they able.

Recently i didn't have data on how performance of L55 and L44 compared side by side.

L55 give more punch when it use APFSDS, more barrel length to push the ammo....
anyway talking about the gun, German KF51 already use 130mm instead of 120mm for more fire power
if bigger firepower is the future, why stick to the L44???
or should they have both of it? short barrel for urban, long / big barrel for jungle?

 

[Umigami]

L55 give more punch when it use APFSDS, more barrel length to push the ammo....
anyway talking about the gun, German KF51 already use 130mm instead of 120mm for more fire power
if bigger firepower is the future, why stick to the L44???
or should they have both of it? short barrel for urban, long / big barrel for jungle?

Let's wait Leo2a6 going head to head with T90. I don't think we have to wait long now

 

[Van Kravchenko]

German KF51 already use 130mm instead of 120mm for more fire power

As Lecrec with 140mm thus tank only serve as technology demonstrator. As per NATO equipmet all stuff must be standarized, especially munitions. And yet there's no further talk about Next gen MBT gun and ammo

 

[chiphocks]

As Lecrec with 140mm thus tank only serve as technology demonstrator. As per NATO equipmet all stuff must be standarized, especially munitions. And yet there's no further talk about Next gen MBT gun and ammo

actually what i'm trying to say is, those leading country at MBT stuff already starting to build a new tanks with a more powerful gun and yet we still in a old short cannon (secondhanded) tank's.....
imagine in the next 5-10 years ahead when they standardized the caliber or at least finished and mass prod the new design...
everyone having a heavy truck with cannon while we still playing with chariot's and arrows......
the same image when i see TNI's playing with scorpions while our neighbor playing with upgraded Leo2 and Abrams

 

[chibiyabi]

actually what i'm trying to say is, those leading country at MBT stuff already starting to build a new tanks with a more powerful gun and yet we still in a old short cannon (secondhanded) tank's.....
imagine in the next 5-10 years ahead when they standardized the caliber or at least finished and mass prod the new design...
everyone having a heavy truck with cannon while we still playing with chariot's and arrows......
the same image when i see TNI's playing with scorpions while our neighbor playing with upgraded Leo2 and Abrams

Indo will have those brand new, updated standard caliber, if something happen in the region. no need to hurry. the scenario always the same whoever write the script. right Mado...

 

[Van Kravchenko]

actually what i'm trying to say is, those leading country at MBT stuff already starting to build a new tanks with a more powerful gun and yet we still in a old short cannon (secondhanded) tank's.....
imagine in the next 5-10 years ahead when they standardized the caliber or at least finished and mass prod the new design...
everyone having a heavy truck with cannon while we still playing with chariot's and arrows......
the same image when i see TNI's playing with scorpions while our neighbor playing with upgraded Leo2 and Abrams

Well the trend is still same, slapping new gun to whatever existing hull. That happend in Challenger 2 which become Challenger 3 and that was Brits, one of the leading Nations you want about. New platform = more money to waste.

Beside huge caliber didn't mean always solve the problem, i mean what will that huge Ammo of NATO will face ? Russian T 62, T 72, T 90 or Chinese vast copy of T 72 ?

huge ammo come pararel with huge protection that adversaries had. Even till today the only prove that tank to tank battle massively occur was in Gulf war, recent battle not so much tank against tank. Since then armor protection of a tank isn't much differ from nowadays, that mean 120 mm NATO still relevant.

Also with bigger cal mean bigger kinetics energy, so can defeat far away target, if we insisted to take down targer 5 miles away with that ammo I think its possible. The question is, how often you can see stright line horizon In Indonesia Geography? Thus renderer bigger gun isn't always the soluiton.

Back then Leopard with 140mm or M1 Thumper also being tested in 90s, none entered service due to reliability. As per engineer and military always want "if it can get the job done and reliable, then it doesn't need immidiate replacement"

Oh, one again New ammo = new logistical nightmare.

 

[chiphocks]

Indo will have those brand new, updated standard caliber, if something happen in the region. no need to hurry. the scenario always the same whoever write the script. right Mado...

that's what make it even more scary, look the countries around us, if something bad happen, you think the European or US will chose to be on our side?
cause most countries around us is US/Europe allies or a NATO's to, like us. The different is, they have stronger relationship compared to Indonesia to US/Europe.

Well the trend is still same, slapping new gun to whatever existing hull. That happend in Challenger 2 which become Challenger 3 and that was Brits, one of the leading Nations you want about. New platform = more money to waste.

Beside huge caliber didn't mean always solve the problem, i mean what will that huge Ammo of NATO will face ? Russian T 62, T 72, T 90 or Chinese vast copy of T 72 ?

huge ammo come pararel with huge protection that adversaries had. Even till today the only prove that tank to tank battle massively occur was in Gulf war, recent battle not so much tank against tank. Since then armor protection of a tank isn't much differ from nowadays, that mean 120 mm NATO still relevant.

Also with bigger cal mean bigger kinetics energy, so can defeat far away target, if we insisted to take down targer 5 miles away with that ammo I think its possible. The question is, how often you can see stright line horizon In Indonesia Geography? Thus renderer bigger gun isn't always the soluiton.

Back then Leopard with 140mm or M1 Thumper also being tested in 90s, none entered service due to reliability. As per engineer and military always want "if it can get the job done and reliable, then it doesn't need immidiate replacement"

Oh, one again New ammo = new logistical nightmare.

Speaking about opponent, those T series (maybe except T90) TNI's Leo's are good enough to face them...
but other countries like Singapore with their Leo2SG? and of course Abrams in Australia?

About new platform more money, yes. even using the existing platform will consume more money.
if they have more money, i prefer they upgrade the existing Leo 2A4 to the current standard Leo 2 RI.

about the main gun L55 cannon, i hope they can get it, but if not i think it still ok. cause i just doubt that the L44 is strong enough to defeat the Abrams or Leo2SG at long range using APFSDS rounds.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

defeat the Abrams or Leo2SG

What the reason we must war with our neighbour that has close ties with us ? What scenario you expect for tank to tank battle with our neighbour ? We land on their beach or them land on our ?

That T 90 everyone afraid of still can be defeated with Leo2A4 using L44 main gun frontally at 1km distance.

Different tank build for diffenret purpouse, For deffence and pack of punch, choose Challenger, M1, leo 2. For mobility wise Choose K2, Type 10. For turret throwing competition choose T 72 and its derivative (icl. T 90).

Up to 20 years ahead let say as a benchmark Leopard 2 Revolution standard still valid, hence the user must adjust how to use it properly in ever evolving military doctrine.

 

[satria]

Danpussenarmed Visits to NEXTER

PUSSENARMED TNI ANGKATAN DARAT on Instagram: "*DANPUSSENARMED MELAKUKAN KUNJUNGAN DAN LAWATAN KE PT NEXTER DI PARIS-PRANCIS* Cimahi, Danpussenarmed Mayjen TNI Yudhy Chandra Jaya M.A. didampingi oleh Dirbinlitbang Pussenarmed Kolonel Armed Maryudi se

123 Likes, 0 Comments - PUSSENARMED TNI ANGKATAN DARAT (@penpussenarmed) on Instagram: "*DANPUSSENARMED MELAKUKAN KUNJUNGAN DAN LAWATAN KE PT NEXTER DI PARIS-PRANCIS* Cimahi, Danpussenarmed Mayjen TNI Yudhy Chandra Jaya M.A. didampingi oleh Dirbinlitbang Pussenarmed Kolonel Armed Maryudi serta...

www.instagram.com

 

[Madokafc]

Beside Indonesian terrain, there is also other factor in my opinion why the Army should stuck with L/44 gun, there is also transportation issue.

Indonesia most likely still goes further for expeditionary type of Armed Forces, recent build up of our inventory indicating the trend, in which dictated by our geography as an Archipelago country. What i mean, Indonesian MBT or any other armored vehicles we had, would most likely taking most of their long journey by using vessels, such as LPD or LST in which Indonesia has tonnes of them. Inside cargo vessels is cramped, and every inch of space inside is very valuable. Longer barrel is more hassle though, although not prohibited but more incovenient for the loadmaster. That's one of the reason why US Army still retain their M256 gun and not opt for longer but more powerful of L55 gun, because Abrams more likely spend their long journey abroad using logistic vessels compared to railway system.

 

[chiphocks]

What the reason we must war with our neighbour that has close ties with us ? What scenario you expect for tank to tank battle with our neighbour ? We land on their beach or them land on our ?

That T 90 everyone afraid of still can be defeated with Leo2A4 using L44 main gun frontally at 1km distance.

Different tank build for diffenret purpouse, For deffence and pack of punch, choose Challenger, M1, leo 2. For mobility wise Choose K2, Type 10. For turret throwing competition choose T 72 and its derivative (icl. T 90).

Up to 20 years ahead let say as a benchmark Leopard 2 Revolution standard still valid, hence the user must adjust how to use it properly in ever evolving military doctrine.

Kind a weird think to say dont you think??? after all the conflict that already happen...
if we put that up that logic simply because we don't want a war with our neighbor or other countries, then why we have an army in the first place???
people can change??

"Up to 20 years ahead let say as a benchmark Leopard 2 Revolution standard still valid"
if it's true and that it's valid, that's exactly why i say "if they have more money, i prefer they upgrade the existing Leo 2A4 to the current standard Leo 2 RI."
same firepower, but more protection and ext

 

[Madokafc]

btw, just for ilustration, transporting vehicles with long barrel is a hassle and incovenient.

there is also reason why Indonesian Army love their CESAR system so much, they are easy to be transported, easy to be cramped in compact cargo vessels or even a cargo aircraft like C130H, compared to conventional SPH tracked system like M109, yes, CESAR is much more being loved actually.

 

[satria]

Danjen Kopassus Directly Observes Production of Weapons for the Red Beret Corps in Abu Dhabi

"This visit is part of the Commander Inspection activities to the production facility to see the production readiness of the procurement of Kopassus weapons which is the result of a collaboration between Caracal International LLC and the national defense equipment company PT Pindad," said Iwan as quoted from the official statement by the Penkopassus, Wednesday (25/1 ).

Danjen Kopassus Tinjau Langsung Produksi Senjata untuk Korps Baret Merah di Abu Dhabi - Indonesiadefense.com | Informasi Berita Terkini dan Terbaru Hari Ini Hankam Dan TNI %

Komandan Jenderal Korps Pasukan Khusus (Danjen Kopassus) Mayjen TNI Iwan Setiawan didampingi tim dari Kemhan, TNI AD dan PT Pindad melakukan kunjungan resmi ke Caracal International LLC di Abu Dhabi, Uni Emirat Arab pada Senin (23/1).

indonesiadefense.com

 

[chiphocks]

KF 51

Dimensions and weight​
Weight​	59 t​
Length (gun forward)​	~ 10 m​
Hull length​	~ 7.8 m​
Width​	~ 3.7 m​
Height​	~ 2.5 m​

Leo 2 RI
Dimensions
Length Gun Forward11m
Length Hull7.72m+
Width 3.75m+
Height2.48m+
Ground Clearance0.54m?
Weight62,500kg aka 62.5 tonne combat

http://fighting-vehicles.com/leopard-2-mbt-revolution/
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/kf_51_panther.htm

is this accurate or not? if it is then that Leo 2 A4 and RI with it's L44 already a big problem then....

 

[Lordimperator]

View attachment 53049

Jungle Leopard, and their typical homefield. Looking from the photo above, i think the L44 type gun is already suited our typical terrain.

KF 51

Dimensions and weight​
Weight​	59 t​
Length (gun forward)​	~ 10 m​
Hull length​	~ 7.8 m​
Width​	~ 3.7 m​
Height​	~ 2.5 m​

Leo 2 RI
Dimensions
Length Gun Forward11m
Length Hull7.72m+
Width 3.75m+
Height2.48m+
Ground Clearance0.54m?
Weight62,500kg aka 62.5 tonne combat

http://fighting-vehicles.com/leopard-2-mbt-revolution/
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/kf_51_panther.htm

is this accurate or not? if it is then that Leo 2 A4 and RI with it's L44 already a big problem then....

Korean L44 vs L55 pic

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Leopard 2 L44 vs L55

KF 51 using 130/L52 ?

 

[chiphocks]

Korean L44 vs L55 pic

View attachment 53064


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View attachment 53065
Leopard 2 L44 vs L55

KF 51 using 130/L52 ?

L52 and L55 have the same length.....
but weird, looks not that much different even when Leo 2 RI only have L44 instead of L55

KF51

Leopard 2 RI

 

[Synders]

Leo 2A5 with L44 is 9.67m long...
I believe Leo 2RI also has the same length...
In comparison, Leo 2A6 with L55 is up to 10.97m long...

LEOPARD 2 A5 - KNDS

LEOPARD 2 A5 – The first upgrade of the world’s leading battle tank

www.kmweg.com

LEOPARD 2 A6 - KNDS

The LEOPARD 2 in operation

www.kmweg.com

 

[Umigami]

Roketsan MZK turret developed for M60A3 tank modernization

View attachment 53054 View attachment 53055

MZK turret
View attachment 53067

M60T3 upgrade high resolution
View attachment 53072 View attachment 53073



@catfishtheblue

Good alternative for Harimau turret.
Although C3105 looks kind of good but it only has 12 rounds capacity in the bustle.