Indonesia Indonesian Army,Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Darat (TNI-AD)

[Umigami]

Ai-450 ER | KKIP Komite Kebijakan Industri Pertahanan

www.kkip.go.id

It use commercial Sony a5000
Well, it's okay for semi throw away drone I guess.

 

[Madokafc]

Ai-450 ER | KKIP Komite Kebijakan Industri Pertahanan

www.kkip.go.id

It use commercial Sony a5000
Well, it's okay for semi throw away drone I guess.

Orlan using Indonesian Made Olympus Pentax camera though

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1624325894281236481

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1624591913767809024

 

[Umigami]

Is this SS2 v5 A1 ?

Tni Latihan Nembak Reaksi #tniad #casis2022 #tnial #abdinegara

youtube.com

 

[AzeriTank]

I see that many people complain about the turret being high in Harimau, but you forget that novadayd, including in Ukranian war, Tanks are destroyed by mines are a bigger threat and you need to make the vehicle high enough(like mrap) to stand those blasts. Just imagine yourself in a tank, which one you would prefer to have? Having protection against mines too or having a little more height? On the other hand it might be a necessity to be able to fly in higher degree which could also support infantries as a smaller howitzer, which we see in Ukrainian war that Russian less ranged howitzers still making big differences when outnumber the opposite side
I would actually offer you a new Turkish vehicle which is one of the unique 8x8 that can be up to 40 ton weight with the same 720 hp Turkish ecotog or same engine that Harimau has and can be armed with L44 120mm Turret. I believe it could be a good choice and you could upgrade the engine in the future too.

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1624966403345514496

 

[Umigami]

Leo2RI did 2 simultaneous fire while on the move

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1624967287311835136

 

[Gary]

The biggest problem with teh Harimau (and its height) seems to be its selection of turret. As I earlier mentioned the Cockerill 3000 series seems to be designed for IFV...turned into tank killer or fire support platform in mind . With the Cockerill able to be fitted with multiple sized calibre gun from 30-120mm and in multiple platform.

That could explain why its turret basket is so tall. In an IFV, especially western IFV which is as tall as a house, the increased "depth" will be useful by being able to be accommodated with multiple IFVs hull it also added a more refined center of gravity (CoG) by being closer not further from the ground. This avoid capsizing in top heavy vehicles that is dictated to be able to traverse 60 deg slope as standard in many armored vehicle requirements.

That is why, when installed on top a Leo it has those distinct neck, because its not friggin designed for tanks, but IFV wannabe tank

I'm not saying the Harimau is bad tank, but I said comparatively with other competitors (BAe MPF, GDLS Griffin III or the Type 15) this is not as refined simply because its design seem to coerce the fitting of an IFV designed turret into a tank, real tank not IFV turned into tank. The turret selection is such an issue that there's offer from the Turkish side to design specific turret to better fir into the HArimau (and probably lower its size signature).

Then there's the argument that Sabrah is even taller, you do realize that Sabrah is a GDLS product based on an ASCOD (an IFV) ?

And then another argument said that its taller because it offers more depression, While having better depression is good, its quite a tradeoffs. I don't see the US Army or Chinese army is dissatisfied with the MPF and the type 15 depression being less tall..
The more concern is if this eventually have to meet a more compact adversary like the Type-15 or MPF in the battlefield. It must be realized that whoever wants to land in Indonesian shores is not some hippie gangs but a country (that is 99% guaranteed to be stronger than we are). Tank vs tank is not as rare as you might think. And its just fact, that being larger, the Harimau seems an easier target to spot.

Again I must stress that I'm not calling the Harimau a bad tank (not at all), its just the competitors has better volume efficiency. The same way an Abrams is more Volume efficient than a Merkava. The lesser volume efficiency seems to come from our side selecting its turret.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1249696087285399552

The other argument is, its fine because its mainly designed for infantry, yes its fine, I have no problem with that too, but being overtly obsessed with fire support and infantry support is dangerous. The IJA of the 1930 design their tanks with specific infantry and lesser adversary foe in mind. The Type 92 were only armed with machine guns and the most numerous of all (type 95) were armed with low velocity 37mm gun. It works in China against the underequipped KMT, works half as good against the Soviet army which has experienced the Stalin's purge, works ok against the Brits in Malaya, but totally useless once the war dragged on and the M3/M4 combo enters the battlefield
I saw multiple similar arguments echoed here on why we should not invest in larger guns L55A1/130mm L51 or better long rod penetrators simply because our 105/120mm is adequate against fortifications and so on.

But alas, everyone can agree or disagree.

 

[Umigami]

The other argument is, its fine because its mainly designed for infantry, yes its fine, I have no problem with that too, but being overtly obsessed with fire support and infantry support is dangerous. The IJA of the 1930 design their tanks with specific infantry and lesser adversary foe in mind. The Type 92 were only armed with machine guns and the most numerous of all (type 95) were armed with low velocity 37mm gun. It works in China against the underequipped KMT, works half as good against the Soviet army which has experienced the Stalin's purge, works ok against the Brits in Malaya, but totally useless once the war dragged on and the M3/M4 combo enters the battlefield
I saw multiple similar arguments echoed here on why we should not invest in larger guns L55A1/130mm L51 or better long rod penetrators simply because our 105/120mm is adequate against fortifications and so on.

We're okay with Harimau using 105mm because we already have Leopard 2. So we're not repeating IJA mistake, we're investing on heavy puncher too. I support the idea of us acquiring L55 for new MBT. But for infantry fire support, 105 mm is enough (even US army has the same idea).

And Why we choose Cockerill 105 back then, That was because we only had 2 option, Cockerill or Hitfact 105. Comparing two of them, I think the right choice had been made.

 

[Madokafc]

The issue with cockerill turret not only about technical design but also cost issue resulted in the development of new turret design by pusenkav

This also one of the stumbling block about further order for Harimau Medium Tank. Though i am would prefer to keep order them while developing newer more capable but more cheaper turret.

 

[Umigami]

The issue with cockerill turret not only about technical design but also cost issue resulted in the development of new turret design by pusenkav View attachment 54029 View attachment 54028

This also one of the stumbling block about further order for Harimau Medium Tank. Though i am would prefer to keep order them while developing newer more capable but more cheaper turret.

Are they gonna develop it from scratch or buy other turret available on market?

 

[Gary]

We're okay with Harimau using 105mm because we already have Leopard 2. So we're not repeating IJA mistake, we're investing on heavy puncher too. I support the idea of us acquiring L55 for new MBT.

This sounds not okay at all. We have 13 Tank battalion and only 2 are equipped with MBTs, the rest will have to be happy with lesser tank.
Look I know certain unit is golden child for the army, but trying to be ok with only 2 battalion's worth of heavy hitters is ridiculous. That means in any contingency, war planners will have to be wise when to deploy those 2 battalions.

Imagine if in Ukraine only 2 out of 7 brigade has MBT while the rest only have light tanks ? They will have to think hard where to deploy those 2.?

But for infantry fire support, 105 mm is enough (even US army has the same idea).

I'm ok with 105...although I don't know why don't opt for 120 which cud do the same thing against infantry.

 

[Umigami]

This sounds not okay at all. We have 13 Tank battalion and only 2 are equipped with MBTs, the rest will have to be happy with lesser tank.
Look I know certain unit is golden child for the army, but trying to be ok with only 2 battalion's worth of heavy hitters is ridiculous. That means in any contingency, war planners will have to be wise when to deploy those 2 battalions.

Imagine if in Ukraine only 2 out of 7 brigade has MBT while the rest only have light tanks ? They will have to think hard where to deploy those 2.?



I'm ok with 105...although I don't know why don't opt for 120 which cud do the same thing against infantry.

Now they want to change the turret. What's your suggestion?

If it's me, miniaturized MZK turret.

 

[Umigami]

The issue with cockerill turret not only about technical design but also cost issue resulted in the development of new turret design by pusenkav View attachment 54029 View attachment 54028

This also one of the stumbling block about further order for Harimau Medium Tank. Though i am would prefer to keep order them while developing newer more capable but more cheaper turret.

What they mean by "tahap IV" ?

 

[NEKO]

Harimau is tall because the hull it self is quite tall, can some one repost image of our Leo 2 and Harimau that is parked side by side, I think its somewhere in this thread.

 

[Umigami]

Harimau is tall because the hull it self is quite tall, can some one repost image of our Leo 2 and Harimau that is parked side by side, I think its somewhere in this thread.

It's tall because it has to accommodate cockerill turret design.
Look at how low crew placement is.

 

[Umigami]

Is Elbit Sabrah turret cheap?

 

[Umigami]

More bike

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1625121368802197504

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1625331440048300034