India India - China Relations

[SHOX]

This is really bizarre that they arent backing down. It has been usually poke and prod in the past but seems like their objectives are different. Our China experts ? Are they able to understand the Chinese ?

 

[SHOX]

India on Tuesday said China's fresh attempt to change the status quo in the south bank area of Pangong lake in eastern Ladakh is in "complete disregard" to the understandings reached between the two countries.

External Affairs Ministry Spokesperson Anurag Srivastava said the Chinese side violated previously agreed understanding and engaged in "provocative military maneuvers" in the late night of August 29 and on August 30 in an attempt to change the status quo in the south bank area.

"As stated yesterday by Indian Army, the Indian side responded to these provocative actions and took appropriate defensive measures along the LAC in order to safeguard our interests and defend the territorial integrity," he said in response to a media query on the issue.

Srivastava said the Chinese troops again engaged in "provocative action" on Monday even as the ground commanders of the two sides were in discussions to de-escalate the situation.

"Due to the timely defensive action, the Indian side was able to prevent these attempts to unilaterally alter the status quo," he said.

The MEA spokesperson further said the actions and behaviour of the Chinese side since earlier this year along the LAC have been in "clear violation" of the bilateral agreements and protocols concluded between the two countries to ensure peace and tranquility on the border.

"Such actions are also in complete disregard to the understandings reached between the two foreign ministers as also the Special Representatives," he said.

"We have taken up the matter of recent provocative and aggressive actions with the Chinese side through both diplomatic and military channels and have urged them to discipline and control their frontline troops from undertaking such provocative actions," he added.

These are in complete disregard to agreed understandings: India on Chinese actions in Pangong Tso

MEA Spokesperson Anurag Srivastava said the Chinese troops again engaged in "provocative action" on Monday even as the ground commanders of the two sides were in discussions to de-escalate the situation.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[Nilgiri]

Guys, sorry about the redirecting glitch that takes you to the first post of the thread rather than the specific post thats redirected.

Working on fixing that...I wont redirect anymore for now.

If its working fine on your end, let me know.

 

[Saiyan0321]

This is really bizarre that they arent backing down. It has been usually poke and prod in the past but seems like their objectives are different. Our China experts ? Are they able to understand the Chinese ?

uhh I am trying to teach myself chinese. Give me 4 years and i will get back to you.

 

[Saiyan0321]

Guys, sorry about the redirecting glitch that takes you to the first post of the thread rather than the specific post thats redirected.

Working on fixing that...I wont redirect anymore for now.

If its working fine on your end, let me know.

Everything seems to be working fine.

 

[Saiyan0321]

Ok so i would say the Chinese side is that White line and the Indian line is that Yellow Line and the LAC is the Red Line and the inbetween space is the no man land. Both of you are certainly dividing things up

 

[suryakiran]

Ok so i would say the Chinese side is that White line and the Indian line is that Yellow Line and the LAC is the Red Line and the inbetween space is the no man land. Both of you are certainly dividing things up

Other way round.

White Line - Indian claim line
Yellow Line - Chinese claim line

Everything in between claimed by both sides. Over the past few years, there has been continuous encroachments by the Chinese side into the no man's land in between. And the Indian side has normally lodged protests but has rarely acted on the ground. This time, the reaction from the Indian side is of using a leaf from the Chinese playbook. Enter terrain in no man's land not occupied or left for a period of time by Chinese forces.

The frustration of China lies now, in their inability to dislodge an opposing force. They have just realised they have bitten more than can chew, unlike the SCS area. The repercussions for these are huge. The Indian state is ready to push forces into no man's land and area that China claims. Militarily.

Only ways China can make India move? Either withdraw reciprocally from areas we expect them to vacate or physically make us. Second option, of course will have other problems.

Went to PeeDeeF after a long time yesterday. The delusion levels were amazing. The degrading of quality after Fartanout got involved with Windfarter is there for everyone to see.

 

[Saiyan0321]

White Line - Indian claim line
Yellow Line - Chinese claim line

Everything in between claimed by both sides. Over the past few years, there has been continuous encroachments by the Chinese side into the no man's land in between. And the Indian side has normally lodged protests but has rarely acted on the ground. This time, the reaction from the Indian side is of using a leaf from the Chinese playbook. Enter terrain in no man's land not occupied or left for a period of time by Chinese forces.

The frustration of China lies now, in their inability to dislodge an opposing force. They have just realised they have bitten more than can chew, unlike the SCS area. The repercussions for these are huge. The Indian state is ready to push forces into no man's land and area that China claims. Militarily.

Only ways China can make India move? Either withdraw reciprocally from areas we expect them to vacate or physically make us. Second option, of course will have other problems.

Ohh the claim lines. I see.

Withdrawal would be a bad idea. I highlighted that in june and i wrote the post above as well. Take what you can and hold it just like they took what they can and are holding it. No man land is too risky and the Chinese have already occupied some really strategic positions in the last decade. I am not sure if they are interested in dislodging opponent from places which the opposition holds firmly.

eventually this was the result to be. The LAC will slowly be demarcated now militarily. At one point the no man land was pretty big but now it has shrinked and now both sides are grabbing what they can until and unless India withdraws again then in that case China will grab that as well.

 

[Joe Shearer]

View attachment 655

I assume that India and China don't want to divide the disputed area, but can anyone shed light on how the area became disputed ?

From your wording, you are interested in only the current area that is causing so much tension. IMHO, that is a partial view; we need to get a lot more of historical perspective into this.

I tried writing out a concise, short answer; that didn't work out, it turned out too long for a post. Maybe it is better to write it as a Word file and attach it to a post, that you, and others interested, can retrieve if they like, and ignore, with relief, if they like.

I know that some of Jamu region has been "rented" to China by Pakistan, but There are almost no definite borderline between China and Jamu/Kashmir.

s it safe to assume that China expanded during a time where India and Pakistan wasn't looking ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Other way round.

White Line - Indian claim line
Yellow Line - Chinese claim line

Everything in between claimed by both sides. Over the past few years, there has been continuous encroachments by the Chinese side into the no man's land in between. And the Indian side has normally lodged protests but has rarely acted on the ground. This time, the reaction from the Indian side is of using a leaf from the Chinese playbook. Enter terrain in no man's land not occupied or left for a period of time by Chinese forces.

The frustration of China lies now, in their inability to dislodge an opposing force. They have just realised they have bitten more than can chew, unlike the SCS area. The repercussions for these are huge. The Indian state is ready to push forces into no man's land and area that China claims. Militarily.

Only ways China can make India move? Either withdraw reciprocally from areas we expect them to vacate or physically make us. Second option, of course will have other problems.

Went to PeeDeeF after a long time yesterday. The delusion levels were amazing. The degrading of quality after Fartanout got involved with Windfarter is there for everyone to see.

Who are these two gentlemen in your last sentence?

 

[Saiyan0321]

Who are these two gentlemen in your last sentence?

Guessing Aeronaut and Windjammer

 

[Joe Shearer]

Guessing Aeronaut and Windjammer

Windjammer, yes, that's easy to guess, and he really shouldn't use any nick with the phrase 'Wind-' in it; it's a hostile Internet out there. Aeronaut? Hmm. Didn't know that he had made such an impact.

 

[Saiyan0321]

Windjammer, yes, that's easy to guess, and he really shouldn't use any nick with the phrase 'Wind-' in it; it's a hostile Internet out there. Aeronaut? Hmm. Didn't know that he had made such an impact.

Personal experiences also create impact so maybe thats why.

 

[Ryder]

A localized military engagement between India and China is imminent. Victory for PLA will mean that they will be encouraged to make further aggressive moves in the SCS. A Victory for India will mean, Xi will be humiliated and he will be forcefully removed from power soon.

Even a back to Status quo will be advantage India right now considering how India has managed to show the Chinese as the aggressive side.

If china gets humiliated it means China will back off and focus on south china sea.

Wont be a good image for china at all as their pride and ego will be crushed.

 

[Nilgiri]

after a long time yesterday. The delusion levels were amazing.

Please, lets not do too much convo on specific characters of other forums.

The problem really starts elsewhere to begin with...a lot higher up (same reason prompting the creation of this forum by a good number of Turks that were formerly at PDF till very recently)...

It is from high up the down low environment is curated and cultivated you see.

I was thinking to say more on this right here right now, but I thought better and deleted it....its still very fresh and toxic in my mind (as to why certain things were done the way they were and specifically who was given special protection above all and why).

I feel I can't take much more of online foulness.... seen and unseen.

I would rather package it away and deal with it maybe at later time, or just let that all atrophy with time.

Here is a new fresh start, a new hope (and I hope you and others spread the good word to bring a good membership here).

The angel after all warned Lot to not look back.

 

[Nilgiri]

Everything seems to be working fine.

I mean in the main section (https://defencehub.live/forums/indian-defence-forum.55/) under normal threads...some threads are redirected now (square with arrow icon) but they take you to the 1st post of the new thread rather than the relevant bit.

 

[Nilgiri]

Good interview worth watching @Joe Shearer @Saiyan0321

At 22.40, the Air Marshal literally says what I said earlier @SHOX heh:

on say 10 emb platforms

 

[Gary]

India only have to make it expensive enough for the Chinese, they can't be pre occupied with India while at the same time struggling in the S China Sea + Taiwan

 

[SkySpotter]

India only have to make it expensive enough for the Chinese, they can't be pre occupied with India while at the same time struggling in the S China Sea + Taiwan

I agree and I've seen a couple of globalmasters landing pretty close to the border in India yesterday. Presumably giving some goodies to Indians? A lot of those where landing in Turkey, departing from Spain. I have no idea what is going on Since France is stepping forward against Turkey

 

[Saithan]

Those lakes look like good place to reach an agreement, but I hope that India can keep being proactive. Maybe wait for winter as I understand it the Chinese are in a worse predicament during winter.