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B_A

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i apologize for the the actions of my some Arab brothers wherever you go you must respect the country laws and it's people . and I don't support the idea of integration of immigrants into society . They should stay in their countries and make them better instead of escaping from reality. But for tourists , the actions of some should not be generalized to all
Life is hard time now,everyone like blame others on the internet,CHP supporters and AKP supoorters attack each other.In daily life almost OK.In Turkey racist is not as serious as Anglos Saxons or German.
 

B_A

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Only Fatih Sultan Mehmet considered himself a Ceasar. Being called Caesar was a political title as he conquered Constantinople he wanted to conquer Rome next.

Ottomana called the0mselves Kings, Emperors, Caliphs, Khans and other titles to elvate their empire.

Even the titles Amir Ul Mumineen were used the Ottomans try to legitmatise themselves as being descended from the Quraish. It wasnt taken seriously even by themselves because all those titles were for political legitamacy.

In many ways the Ottomans did not really consider themselves Romans. It was just another title to add alongside being the Khan.

Even the Russian Tsars used Khans in their titles. Did not really make them Mongols or Gokturks.
That is because there were many types and definition of "Ottomans" and changing with time.

Sometimes "Ottomans" meant the Royal family,sometimes meant the elite of the Ottoman country,sometimes meant every subject of the Ottoman country.

Mainly The Greek speaking people in the country consider themselves Romans
 

Ryder

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That is because there were many types and definition of "Ottomans" and changing with time.

Sometimes "Ottomans" meant the Royal family,sometimes meant the elite of the Ottoman country,sometimes meant every subject of the Ottoman country.

Mainly The Greek speaking people in the country consider themselves Romans

Whats interesting is when the Greeks took one of the Aegan Islands off the Ottomans.

Greeks portrayed themselves as liberators only to realise the locals are like what the hell. We are not Greeks but Romioi. Greeks who lived in that island called themselves Romans LOL.
 

Baryshx

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What does Islam have to do with this? Islam is against slavery. Anyway, we don't hear much shouting when a black person enslaves another black
It has nothing to do with Islam but with the dishonest people who use Islam (Dinciler-Religionists). And this is a bad perception back to the world.

Btw, it is also said that the crescent on the Turkish flag symbolizes Allah, since the words "Allah" and "crescent" have the same value (66 - Ebced). Likewise, the tulip is worth 66.
 

LIbyan Soldier

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It has nothing to do with Islam but with the dishonest people who use Islam (Dinciler-Religionists). And this is a bad perception back to the world.

Btw, it is also said that the crescent on the Turkish flag symbolizes Allah, since the words "Allah" and "crescent" have the same value (66 - Ebced). Likewise, the tulip is worth 66.
Adopting crescents or stars as a symbol for Muslims has no basis in Sharia and it was not known at the time of the Prophet peace be upon him or the era of his rightly-guided caliphs
 

B_A

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Adopting crescents or stars as a symbol for Muslims has no basis in Sharia and it was not known at the time of the Prophet peace be upon him or the era of his rightly-guided caliphs
It has nothing to do with Islam but with the dishonest people who use Islam (Dinciler-Religionists). And this is a bad perception back to the world.

Btw, it is also said that the crescent on the Turkish flag symbolizes Allah, since the words "Allah" and "crescent" have the same value (66 - Ebced). Likewise, the tulip is worth 66.
Actually I think that almost because Abdul Hamid II done a lot of promotion of Ottoman Caliphate.In order to save the country

So westerner and many Muslims Seems Ottoman Caliphate flag as the symbol for Muslims

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B_A

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In the time of Abdul Hamid II

The Empire and the whole muslim society and Turkish race were in serious crisis

The Sultan wanted to make Turks and Muslim stand together so he mixed many concepts.Muslim/ Turkish/Ottomans
 

Afif

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I was planning to jump in but now I have to jump out.🤣
 

Rooxbar

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yes, the symbol was used by Turks in the past and by other groups but the Ottoman adoption of it is due to two factors one a legend about Osman the First's dream, and because it was the symbol of Rome and the Ottomans thought of themselves as the continuation of Rome. the Ottomans were forcing Caesar not Constantinople to stop calling themselves Roman for a while before they conquered Istanbul.



Culture is something that is tied down to one group it is something that evolves over time from different cultures coming together and exchanging ideas, for example, Greek culture gets most of its roots from the middle east.



The Crescent-star wasn't an Islamic symbol but there was a legend has it that Osman I put a crescent on the top of a mosque after he had a dream that he believed to be a vision. The Crescent-star is associated with the Islamic world mostly because it was used by the Ottomans.
I'm sorry to tell you this, but that's Wikipedia level bullshit. You can't really trust anything that can have ideological underpinnings on the internet. Anyone can make the reality seem upside down by picking and choosing the data that they present. Byzantine use of the symbol has no relevance if it's not a ubiquitous use. This is a universal symbol that is expected to be seen in different settings and it indeed was used as a symbol of the city of Byzantium in early Roman Empire era in 1st century AD, but its use as symbol waned to the point of non-existence in any coins or banners depicted from late Byzantine era in 10th and 11th centuries AD. It bears no importance to find this symbol in a couple of individual cases from a span of multiple centuries. What is important is if this symbol was in prevalent use as a symbol of Byzantium? and the answer is no it wasn't. The Symbols for Byzantium that every traveler, eyewitness and historical witness attests to are the adorned Cross and the two-headed Eagle. You cannot find even one contemporary historian or traveler claiming that Star and Crescent were symbols of Byzantines and or used in their banners and such. But they may have been used locally here and there and anyone with an ideological mission can point out to these anomalies and make it seem this was an important symbol of the era for Byzantines.

Sumerians, Babylonians, Assyrians everybody has used this symbol. The important thing is that why Ottomans chose to use this symbol and the reason why is not because they borrowed it from Byzantines because Byzantines weren't using it a symbol for themselves either. Couple of examples of its use doesn't negate this fact. Use of those marginal instances by Internet historians is not proof. Proof would be if the symbol was known as Constantinople's symbol and then Ottomans start using it all over after they conquer the city. Neither of these statements are true. Ottomans don't start using the symbol until 18th century. Any memory of its use by Byzantines would be completely dead by that time even if it was prevalent, but we know it was not prevalent at all.

So let's see who did use the symbol extensively at the time as a smybol of their state on banners, not just on marginal cases here and there in a building or a coin or two. Memluks. Memluks used the symbol as their official military banners, extensively.


Before Ottomans defeated Mamluks in 1516 there was a back and forth about control of the routes to Mecca and a disputation about who has more control over the city. Effectively Mamluks had more control over the Sharifs of Mecca as Ibn Battuta reports that prayers were made for Mamluk Sultans. This is the reason why Ottomans could claim the title of Caliph only after defeating Mamluks and it would be natural to assume they would also adopt their banner as a banner of Caliphate. But this is only speculation and the true origins of the reasons for Ottomans to adopt the symbol are unknown and cannot be credibly traced back to 16th, let alone 15th centuries and adoption from Mamluks and Byzantines as the event happened centuries later. But if there's any claim to be made about the origins, the Byzantine claim is extraordinarily weak and manufactured by Internet historians with an agenda. The Mamluk claim is much stronger than the Byzantine claim, but in the end it is still a weak claim trying to tie 16th century events to late 18th century adoption. But star and crescent as a banner of Mamluks was quite well known and repeatedly mentioned by contemporary sources (as per a paper by Fuat Köprülü), while the same case cannot be made about Byzantines.
 
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UkroTurk

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Being racist and creating slave markets are different things. Europeans didn't create slavery in Africa
 

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The extent and the kind of slavery in U.S. had no other parallels in history. In every other form of slavery, you could be bought out of slavery by relatives, other patrons or the money you secretly saved. A slave was just another human being that had fallen on hard times in war and such and was seen as someone who would probably get out of the situation in some years. If you were a slave your children were not immediately considered slaves.

The chattel slavery in U.S. became defined by considering Black Africans as subhuman and the black skin as inherent defining feature of a slave. So the theory was that they were inherently slaves, hence the reason they were not allowed to learn to read or marry white Americans (which was an extreme taboo that still persists today in American society). In antiquity and other forms of slavery, slaves married free women all the time and that was one of the main ways out of slavery. So black Africans were considered slaves from birth due to skin color in this doctrine.

Because a slave was defined in the American consciousness as Black subhuman creature, their treatment was extremely harsh compared to other slave-holding societies. And since U.S. was an industrializing society with huge demographic and agricultural needs, the importation of slaves took on industrial scales for the first time in American south. In Southern states, in 1840s, slaves comprised up to 40% of the population. There's a complete consensus among serious historians of this subject that the institution of slavery in U.S. was a unique phenomenon in history with no other parallels.
 

Afif

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The extent and the kind of slavery in U.S. had no other parallels in history. In every other form of slavery, you could be bought out of slavery by relatives, other patrons or the money you secretly saved. A slave was just another human being that had fallen on hard times in war and such and was seen as someone who would probably get out of the situation in some years. If you were a slave your children were not immediately considered slaves.

The chattel slavery in U.S. became defined by considering Black Africans as subhuman and the black skin as inherent defining feature of a slave. So the theory was that they were inherently slaves, hence the reason they were not allowed to learn to read or marry white Americans (which was an extreme taboo that still persists today in American society). In antiquity and other forms of slavery, slaves married free women all the time and that was one of the main ways out of slavery. So black Africans were considered slaves from birth due to skin color in this doctrine.

Because a slave was defined in the American consciousness as Black subhuman creature, their treatment was extremely harsh compared to other slave-holding societies. And since U.S. was an industrializing society with huge demographic and agricultural needs, the importation of slaves took on industrial scales for the first time in American south. In Southern states, in 1840s, slaves comprised up to 40% of the population. There's a complete consensus among serious historians of this subject that the institution of slavery in U.S. was a unique phenomenon in history with no other parallels.

And the irony is, the 'race science' is still very much alive to this day.
The obsession of right wing so called public intellectuals with the whole Race and IQ thing is disgusting.
 

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Was nice to go to holiday in Turkey, after 5 years missed a lot things. I loved it no social media for 3 weeks :D. I managed put the phone down.
 
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