TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

[Nilgiri]

Actually in post-1980s the rise of east asian industrial export made other developing countries suffering.

India Turkey and south america,east south asia industry cant match the east asian(China Korea Japan Taiwan) and under heavy pressure.

Chinese product are keeping defeat us in EUmarket anddomestic market

I don't agree.

Take for example my home state Tamil Nadu (TN) in India.

TN car exports are about 380,000 (India total is around 700,000) in latest year.

TN population about 76 million, i.e why does 5% of india population export more than half the cars it does?

Extrapolate TN per capita car exports to china population, china would export around 7 million cars

Instead china exported around 3 million cars in latest year.

Essentially TN is exporting more than twice per capita than China in cars.

i.e what did my state do that the heavily populated northern states of india did not do?, in that effectively total India exports is only 10% of what it could be as result?

if any place undertands the onion layers well and develops the onion well (from inside out), it will do well....

i.e China isnt some unmovable phenomenon if you do the analysis on labour profile and comparative advantage diligently enough w.r.t investment.

Its all exactly how deng started the process in the 1980s and tiger east asia before that.

With Turkey the easiest way to approach it is look at export profile and what are the highest value addition things turkey exports
then ask why it isnt exporting twice that and having a larger market share of it than it does?

The capability/capacity is all obviously there (i.e its obviously making and selling them, people are buying it in billions of dollars worth in say europe), so why wasn't the throughput increased much more than it is now?

Simply the investment wasn't sufficient (after all the hard work done to get the initial industries unlocked).

Instead too much went to subsidies, loans and flows in less optimal things that the govt induced in other sectors that are more dead end and elastic in demand. Erdogan admin dropped the ball last 20 years on too many things.

 

[B_A]

We should see the whole country not a state.
Türkiye and India still in large trade deficit we have to deal with it.

China and other east Asia as a country is in trade surplus

 

[Nilgiri]

We should see the whole country not a state.

Why? What is next, we should see the whole world, not a country? Simply everything is based on some resolution you picked....wherever the determining factors actually lie?

There are different governments in different states in a country the size of India... that created different policies at different years....and now we have different results to study.

Why should it not be studied and analysed? i.e What factors created the differences in economy and development today between parts of India?

My state is almost the population of Turkiye itself to begin with, its not some irrelevant thing that should be overlooked....in fact applying its success to other parts of India is already going on. The more that happens, the more larger India catches up.

If you do not want to analyse what works and what failed for Turkiye and put blame where the blame should be put first of all, then that is your decision. It is not shared by other Turks in this forum.

 

[Ryder]

A guard dog sleeps outside, he can never enter the house and sleep with the owner. Erdogan wanted transactional relationships and to flout European interests, they have made him a guard dog.

There is no fair in geopolitics.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703004487277854792

Democratic erosions is a bs excuse.

Numerous times where Turkiye was so democratic and so liberal many times they still did not accept them.

Even Erdogan was supported by Euros as he was some man challenging the old Kemalist elite who ran the country.

EU will just continue making you jump through hoops just to be a member.

Especially how they oppose Turkiye more than Russia into the EU before the invasion of Ukraine speaks volumes.

 

[B_A]

Why? What is next, we should see the whole world, not a country? Simply everything is based on some resolution you picked....wherever the determining factors actually lie?

There are different governments in different states in a country the size of India... that created different policies at different years....and now we have different results to study.

Why should it not be studied and analysed? i.e What factors created the differences in economy and development today between parts of India?

My state is almost the population of Turkiye itself to begin with, its not some irrelevant thing that should be overlooked....in fact applying its success to other parts of India is already going on. The more that happens, the more larger India catches up.

If you do not want to analyse what works and what failed for Turkiye and put blame where the blame should be put first of all, then that is your decision. It is not shared by other Turks in this forum.

Because your state have to obey the policy and order of central government of India,the trade between the states not a international trade.in diploma and war you will be a single country.

No matter a Chinese province or California had almost similar gdp and population with Japan and Everyone will compare Japan to China or UK to US,not California to UK or Japan.

İf use your idea Let s use only Istanbul,ok we are developed countriy

 

[B_A]

İf as rich as Singapore everyone say they are democracy

 

[Nilgiri]

Because your state have to obey the policy and order of central government of India,the trade between the states not a international trade.in diploma and war you will be a single country.

You clearly have no understanding of what the differences have long been and continue to be between social programs, industrial and investment policies of Indian states and the legislative and executive powers reposed in the state (different to the federal govt) that have created differences in India's development.

Right from the start you clearly haven't even looked at Turkey's own investment data for the last 20 years in any relevant detail as to its composition and why it has been subpar. Which policies were lacking. Forget trying analysis.

You didn't even catch on my hint and look into what Turkiye's actual car exports are compared to say China either. Why hasn't Turkey simply expanded this to a larger amount? Just look at the data for yourself instead of coming to conclusions first thing.

Or just "blame China" because thats easier to do instead of your govt.

This conversation ends now from my side, there's no point.

No matter a Chinese province or California had almost similar gdp and population with Japan and Everyone will compare Japan to China or UK to US,not California to UK or Japan.

Comparisons within these countries are done on frequent basis as well to find where disparities in policy or other factors have resulted in different outcomes.

No large population country is homogeneous in development. China literally has something like 400 million or more internal migrant population that is extremely understudied socioeconomically given the hukou system (they work in different area to where they are registered and placed for govt support). That is without even looking at China's different regions and agricultural rural population either....or different layers of the CCP bureaucracy from local to central.

Once a country adopts federal structure as well (i.e states or sub-units can pass significantly different legislation to each other within bounds of the constitution), the scope increases even more....as there are significant policy drivers that separate their results over time.

Seperation of powers between federal and state govt is not some nominal thing with large countries like India, US.

İf use your idea Let s use only Istanbul,ok we are developed countriy

Not really, thats like picking a city in a sub-unit. Large states in India are immense populations with urban, rural and all sectors of economic activity covered.

I literally just told you my state is nearly the entire population of Turkey and you still don't understand.

There are states in India that have 100 million, 200 million or more people all with very different industrial policies and investment climate to each other (there is literal business ranking indices done for each state).

It is not some centralised homogeneous "everything is run in Delhi" thing to dismiss in some way.

Not my problem you don't understand any of this. Ciao.

 

[Bozan]

Democratic erosions is a bs excuse.

Numerous times where Turkiye was so democratic and so liberal many times they still did not accept them.

Even Erdogan was supported by Euros as he was some man challenging the old Kemalist elite who ran the country.

EU will just continue making you jump through hoops just to be a member.

Especially how they oppose Turkiye more than Russia into the EU before the invasion of Ukraine speaks volumes.

View the closed chapters. There was backsliding.

 

[Ryder]

View the closed chapters. There was backsliding.

It also included withdrawing from Cyprus since Cyprus is also a EU member. Cant get into EU by having a conflict with one of its members.

Basically the application was doomed.

 

[Bozan]

It also included withdrawing from Cyprus since Cyprus is also a EU member. Cant get into EU by having a conflict with one of its members.

Basically the application was doomed.

So why complain ? They were clear from the start.

Erdogan wanted to integrate Turkey with East and West and now we are isolated from both and weak. Every trade is another country taking what they want, very few benefits to TR. There is blood in the water. Even the plan to integrate with Arab countries in the middle east has totally failed.

 

[Bozan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703341725303836888

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703172514078196012

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703150012220297225

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703479125543915970

Arabs and Arab media are starting report on racist comments on twitter even as well as videos of assaults and hate speech, damaging the country reputation. Umit Ozdag is mentioned a lot.

 

[Xenon54]

We are in weaker position,Economically and promotionally

Every rumors that we drop EU will be reported as we became Sharia law country.Every time Erdogan say anything to EU results Lira and our economy fall

It's ironic that Westerners keep speaking up for communist China

Well, we had ministers who called on TV for women to not laugh loudly and be modest or religion minister making outrageous fetvas and the president himself making kinda comments that raised some eyebrows.
We gave them the material, we have only ourselves to blame.

 

[Ryder]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703341725303836888

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703172514078196012

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703150012220297225

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703479125543915970

Arabs and Arab media are starting report on racist comments on twitter even as well as videos of assaults and hate speech, damaging the country reputation. Umit Ozdag is mentioned a lot.

Its reported that Anti Arab sentiment is mainly focused on Syrian Refugees and Rich Gulf Arab tourists. But now its become general hostility of all Arabs from Morocco to Iraq. Also I believe anti Arab sentiment also comes from their opposition to Islam. You know Islam is an "Arab" religion.

You do have refugees who come from Afghanistan, Pakistan and various African countries.

But the general consensus refugees= Syrians.

Then again we cant ignore the Anti Turkish sentiment thats rising in the Arab world. Has been in policy for decades.

I dont think Arabs should be crying about racism. Turks and Arabs will never have a honest consveration about racism in their own countries.

Then again humans in general regardless of race and ethnic groups are racist.

Another story of how racism began im talking about Islamic tradition is how Iblis believed he was superior to Adam because he was made from fire while Adam was made from mud/clay.

Humans in general are not just competitive but also tribal.

 

[Afif]

Things are really changing folks! @Rooxbar @Sanchez et al.

 

[Rooxbar]

Things are really changing folks! @Rooxbar @Sanchez et al.

Do you mean the call to expand the security council? Well U.S. talks about that every time China complains, saying "look if you want a more egalitarian approach, we're all for it: let's get India, Japan and Germany as well". Clinton, Bush and Obama said the same thing. It's rhetorical. The whole thing is just a pr duel. It's impossible. Russia and China wouldn't let any expansion unless the new members also include equal number of their allies.

 

[Bozan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703836457050218729

Hahaha

 

[Barry]

The man's a disaster

 

[Ryder]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703836457050218729

Hahaha

I hate how he flip flops constantly!!!

The man has no backbone whatsoever.

This pisses me off so bad.

 

[Xenon54]

I hate how he flip flops constantly!!!

The man has no backbone whatsoever.

This pisses me off so bad.

Well imagine you play the tough guy but then remember the yearly 700 million Euro help after seeing the new exchange rate.
I think you would flip flop too if your countrys economy needed every cent in foreign currency.

 

[Bozan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1704280462233919843

Something