TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Strong AI]

I still don't understand the armed version of Hürküs. The cost of an aircraft of this type is probably 40 - 50 million US dollars.
The Aircraft as a Trainer makes sense for training, but as a combat aircraft these things make absolutely no sense. The cost = benefit factor is not obvious to me.
Yes, it has the advantage of being able to land on unpaved landing sites, especially at military bases in enemy territory
But when will there ever be a situation where this is really necessary....
These things are much slower and can't fly any higher than a modern fighter jet.
If these things cost 15-20 million dollars each, I would still understand it and you could build a fleet of 100-150 of them to give young aspiring fighter pilots a routine away from simulators and trainer planes.
They could use it to monitor the coasts and it would also be enough for the PKK & YPG, Drug Cartels, Pirates/Smuggler,
they don't have a functioning modern air defense system anyway.
But these things are just too expensive, with the money you can probably build 2-3 Akinci or Aksungur who can also fulfill this task.

"The average price of an A-29 (Super Tucano) hovers around $10 million or more depending on modifications."
I am sure, that a Hürkuş costs less than that.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

US Special Forces Command just ordered turboprop AT-802U for armed reconnaissance and close air support because they wanted a low cost option. Armed version would be used the same way, armed recon and CAS, with good payload capacity and options. We can use them in counter-terrorism operations instead of using our jets and putting unnecessary flight hours on them.

And there is no way Hürkuş costs that much, unless you have a proof, that is almost 80% of a jet fighter.

You're right, the costs are around 20 -25 million dollars/euros per unit.

Bomba haber: TUSAŞ'ta HÜRKUŞ kalmadı | SavunmaSanayiST

Türk Havacılık ve Uzay Sanayii (TUSAŞ)'nin elinde HÜRKUŞ Uçağı kalmadı. TUSAŞ, elinde bulunan bütün HÜRKUŞ platformlarını, çeşitli ülkelere ihraç etti.

www.savunmasanayist.com

In hindsight, however, I still think that's too expensive .
Why shouldn't a drone be able to fulfill this task?

 

[I_Love_F16]

You're right, the costs are around 20 -25 million dollars/euros per unit.

Bomba haber: TUSAŞ'ta HÜRKUŞ kalmadı | SavunmaSanayiST

Türk Havacılık ve Uzay Sanayii (TUSAŞ)'nin elinde HÜRKUŞ Uçağı kalmadı. TUSAŞ, elinde bulunan bütün HÜRKUŞ platformlarını, çeşitli ülkelere ihraç etti.

www.savunmasanayist.com

In hindsight, however, I still think that's too expensive .
Why shouldn't a drone be able to fulfill this task?

You also risk a valuable pilot, something you don’t have to think about when you are using unmanned aircrafts.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

You also risk a valuable pilot, something you don’t have to think about when you are using unmanned aircrafts.

Exactly, unfortunately pilots don't grow on trees, they are a limited resource. It would be a shame if a Hürküs C with 2 experienced pilots could be shot down by a Stinger or another modern mobile air defense system because it wasn't high enough.
I can well imagine that terrorists and pirates could have at least that from the black market.
If the drone is shot down, I don't think it matters, you can replace it, you can't replace pilots so easily.
In general, human pilots no longer have a place in a military turboprop aircraft designed for combat missions.
That would be pure suicide...

I would agree with a purely export-oriented aircraft, e.g. for Somalia and other African countries that want something cheap and efficient to protect their borders without exceeding the 50 million €/$.

 

[Sanchez]

"The average price of an A-29 (Super Tucano) hovers around $10 million or more depending on modifications."
I am sure, that a Hürkuş costs less than that.

Pretty sure that's near impossible.

Drones that can carry the firepower and sensors these aircraft can carry at the speeds they travel are not exactly cheap either. US has hundreds of very capable Reapers, they still used Broncos in Syria.

 

[Samba]

First prototype of TULGAR is ready!

KAAN pilotları için geliştirilen TULGAR'ın ilk prototipi üretildi

Milli Muharip Uçak KAAN pilotları için ASELSAN tarafından geliştirilen TULGAR'ın ilk prototipinin üretildiği açıklandı.

www.defenceturk.net

 

[Quasar]

Close air support capability is coming to HÜRKUŞ-C:
• HÜRKUŞ-C will soon be firing with an under-wing pod equipped with a 12.7 mm heavy machine gun
• Heavy machine gun integration will give HÜRKUŞ-C close air support capability
• This capability will contribute significantly to the effectiveness of Land Forces operations.
• For this project, TRMEKATRONİK created an air derivative of SARSILMAZ's 12.7 millimeter interchangeable barrel land platform gun with a fixed barrel, lightened internal parts, and can fire 1100 bullets per minute, and embedded it in the pod. Thus, a pod was created that collects the empty casing and trunk and carries the ammunition it will fire within itself.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1742155724560433550

 

[Heartbang]

Close air support capability is coming to HÜRKUŞ-C:
• HÜRKUŞ-C will soon be firing with an under-wing pod equipped with a 12.7 mm heavy machine gun
• Heavy machine gun integration will give HÜRKUŞ-C close air support capability
• This capability will contribute significantly to the effectiveness of Land Forces operations.
• For this project, TRMEKATRONİK created an air derivative of SARSILMAZ's 12.7 millimeter interchangeable barrel land platform gun with a fixed barrel, lightened internal parts, and can fire 1100 bullets per minute, and embedded it in the pod. Thus, a pod was created that collects the empty casing and trunk and carries the ammunition it will fire within itself.

View attachment 64418

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1742155724560433550

What's the payload capacity of Hürkuş-C?

 

[Zafer]

What's the payload capacity of Hürkuş-C?

750 kg ? I have seen in a video today.

 

[Strong AI]

What's the payload capacity of Hürkuş-C?

1.500 kg , 7 Hardpoints

 

[Quasar]

What's the payload capacity of Hürkuş-C?

1.500 kg , 7 Hardpoints

in 2017 it was stated that Hurküş C also has armour reinforced airframe.

 

[Heartbang]

1.500 kg , 7 Hardpoints

If that figure does not include fuel, that's very noice.

 

[boredaf]

Close air support capability is coming to HÜRKUŞ-C:
• HÜRKUŞ-C will soon be firing with an under-wing pod equipped with a 12.7 mm heavy machine gun
• Heavy machine gun integration will give HÜRKUŞ-C close air support capability
• This capability will contribute significantly to the effectiveness of Land Forces operations.
• For this project, TRMEKATRONİK created an air derivative of SARSILMAZ's 12.7 millimeter interchangeable barrel land platform gun with a fixed barrel, lightened internal parts, and can fire 1100 bullets per minute, and embedded it in the pod. Thus, a pod was created that collects the empty casing and trunk and carries the ammunition it will fire within itself.

View attachment 64418

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1742155724560433550

Cirit and Mam-L is too lightweight for something that can carry 1500 kgs, not to mention their range is low compared to heavier options as well. Why risk a pilot going in under 10 kms, when the plane has other option?

 

[Quasar]

Cirit and Mam-L is too lightweight for something that can carry 1500 kgs, not to mention their range is low compared to heavier options as well. Why risk a pilot going in under 10 kms, when the plane has other option?

You may even Further add the question of WHY a 12.7 mm heavy machine gun???

most logical explanantion is you need a versitle platform with wide range of weapons to be used against wide range of targets under different threat environments in different missions especially for CAS but not only limited to CAS with optimum effectiveness ?

A further note it was stated that Hurkuş C will have

- armour reinforced airframe
- self protection systems
-night vision compatible digital cockpit

as final words Hürkuş C is a worthy effort and have the potential for domestic use and for export


but depending on your imagination I may add air launched guided artilary rockets, kuzgun or even Çakır??? a bit of exageration? or may be not? ok up coming new Roketsan missiles are more logical

P.S last part is for some fun

 

[boredaf]

Hürkuş C is a worthy effort and have the potential for domestic use and for export

I absolutely agree with that, I think it can help our jets in counter-terrorism operations, I just think those options are just too small, it is borderline pointless to use a plane when we have a lot of TB-2s and Ankas that can carry the same munitions. I'd expect Hürkuş C to be a platform between F-16s and low payload drones. But, options are good for export I guess, but it'd be really disappointing for me if army actually bought Hürkuş C and then used Cirit or Mam-L from it. 7 hard points with 1500kg payload suggests it should be able to carry around 200kgs at every hard point, I hope they plan to take advantage of that.

 

[Era_shield]

Cirit and Mam-L is too lightweight for something that can carry 1500 kgs, not to mention their range is low compared to heavier options as well. Why risk a pilot going in under 10 kms, when the plane has other option?

Do you know what the C in CAS stands for?

 

[uçuyorum]

Do you know what the C in CAS stands for?

You clearly don't. It has nothing to do with plane getting close, it's about proximity of targets to frontline troops. Theres nothing more useless than 12.7 gun for a plane like this beyond training purposes.

 

[boredaf]

Do you know what the C in CAS stands for?

Do you realize we are not in 1970 anymore? Close air support has changed with the times lad, you should catch up. Fucking terrorists are getting manpads now, why risk a plane and more importantly for me a pilot when the said plane can carry munitions that can be fired from safe distances? Not to mention, heavier missiles mean bigger boom, and that means more terrorists killed, why bother with smaller ordinances that drones we have plenty of can carry?

Again, I'm talking about our potential use of Hürkuş-C, not export costumers, they can do whatever they want.

 

[Saithan]

Guys, how useful would 12.7 mm be to take out drones or ucav/uav and such ? I know it'd be better to use something like cirit (that size) and would have all necessary tech to get the kill, but if there are a swarm of drones, wouldn't a 12.7 mm be quite useful as some sort of close AD for airforce ?

 

[boredaf]

Guys, how useful would 12.7 mm be to take out drones or ucav/uav and such ? I know it'd be better to use something like cirit (that size) and would have all necessary tech to get the kill, but if there are a swarm of drones, wouldn't a 12.7 mm be quite useful as some sort of close AD for airforce ?

If that is the goal, something with airburst munition would be much more useful, and that means at least 20 or 25mm I think. Even if they wanted 12.7mm, MKE has a three barrel cannon that is only 20 or 30 kgs heavier than M2, the least they could've used is something like that. BTW, MKE also has a 25mm autocannon that's around 140 kgs iirc, that shouldn't be too heavy for Hürkuş.