TR Naval Programs

[Khagan1923]

SSIK is out. Interesting stuff!

My least expected, Milgem 9 to 12 is to be built! Istif Class going up to 8? Hopefully something bigger?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1742545122087112843

Are we sure they are not meaning TF2000 with this? Isn't TF2000 categorized under MILGEM?

New landing ships, new class minesweepers and FACs to be built, probably referring to the stuff we've been talking about for years.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1742544629231185947

More Bayraktar Class or a new design all together? Maybe LPD? But good news! FAC I expect them to go back to a more traditional design.

"Design phase" to start for the carrier.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1742544039931498531

I fully expecting a partner in this to be announced in the near future. Either Spain or Britain but honestly Britain makes more sense due to it actually having experience and being a AC owner.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Are we sure they are not meaning TF2000 with this? Isn't TF2000 categorized under MILGEM?

A little bit early to make a decision for the production of TF-2000. I guess the additional 4 to be built is the I-class.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

A little bit early to make a decision for the production of TF-2000. I guess the additional 4 to be built is the I-class.

I hope new Istanbul class will be block 2 with 130 meter and 32 VLS

 

[TheInsider]

If I were Navy i would upgrade 4x Ada class to İstif class level and replace 4x Ada class with up-armed version of Hisar class patrol ships. 10 Hisar corvettes are enough for corvette/patrol fleet and we can end up with 4x more İstif class on top of what is currently ordered (8).


Frigate fleet
4x upgraded Barbaros Class (Meko)
4x Upgraded Gabya Class (Perry)
12x İstif Class (8x new, 4x Upgraded Ada)

Corvette Fleet
10x Hisar Class (4x armed, 6x yerinde hazır/Turkish fitted but not with)

*Smart-S on Ada class should be replaced by Cenk-S. Those Smart-S radars should be used on armed 4x armed Hisar class.
*4x new İstif class should have improvements. I think the most important improvements might be additional VLS and Cenk-S+ 4x fixed X-Band AESA radars on the mast. This is a good compromise between ÇAFRAD and Cenk-S/Smart-S+Mar/Mar-D

 

[Afif]

SSIK is out. Interesting stuff!

My least expected, Milgem 9 to 12 is to be built! Istif Class going up to 8? Hopefully something bigger?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1742545122087112843

New landing ships, new class minesweepers and FACs to be built, probably referring to the stuff we've been talking about for years.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1742544629231185947

"Design phase" to start for the carrier.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1742544039931498531

@Anmdt Milgem 9-12?

 

[boredaf]

Are we sure they are not meaning TF2000 with this? Isn't TF2000 categorized under MILGEM?

Savunmasanayist just put out an article, they are going to be İstif, not TF2000.

MİLGEM 9,10,11 ve 12'nci gemiler için kritik karar

MİLGEM Programı'nın 9, 10, 11 ve 12'nci gemilerinin inşası için karar çıktı. Gemiler, TF-2000 Hava Savunma Harbi Muhripi değil, firkateyn olarak inşa edilecek.

www.savunmasanayist.com

 

[Huelague]

We've had one, yes. What about second VLS?

Which missiles will be used for VLS as they can not be launched from torpedo tubes?

 

[uçuyorum]

I hope it's Istif with more air defence missiles because in its current state it's a rather expensive ship for its current weapons payload. Would have been just right with 64 ESSM. Otherwise investing just a bit more to make a larger ship will make it much more optimized in that regard. I hope they aren't rushing those just to save just a few bucks and making it unoptimized. Although we do need quite a few ships to replace aging ones and increase numbers. Istif literally means stacking, referring to need to the idea of stacking up large numbers of these as main ship.

 

[Quasar]

in Turkiye How many cities are there which starts with İ ?

 

[Afif]

This is actually a very good decision. Me, @Knowledgeseeker and few others were hoping for 4x more Istif ships from the beginning. Turkish navy should not be the least capable of three services.

Although, I wonder if the resource for carrier development could have been better spent on SSN. But we probably don’t know enough how Turkish policy makers envision Turkish Naval capability development within overall strategic framework into 2030s and 2040s.

A 45000t carrier with 2/3 squadrons of twin engine KE and ANKA-4 on board would be a looker.

 

[Yasar_TR]

MİLGEM 9,10,11 ve 12'nci gemiler için kritik karar

MİLGEM Programı'nın 9, 10, 11 ve 12'nci gemilerinin inşası için karar çıktı. Gemiler, TF-2000 Hava Savunma Harbi Muhripi değil, firkateyn olarak inşa edilecek.

www.savunmasanayist.com

I was always in the opinion that TF2000 destroyers were an overkill for us at the current climate.
With 4 Yavuz Class ships becoming almost obsolete and the 4 Gabya Class not in line with the modern navy we want to have, it was high time they took the right decision to go with a further 4 İstif Class ships.
So quantity wise we are not adding new ships to the frigate fleet. But modernising it further.
In 4-5 years time our Navy will have 8 İstif Class , 4 Barbaros Class and 4 Gabya Class ships as far as frigates go.
With 10 Hisar Class OPVs and 4 Ada Class Corvettes we will have a very potent littoral waters fleet that can be used in the shallow waters of the Sea of Islands.
Hopefully with the first Milden subs becoming part of the fleet, the 4 Gabya frigates will also be replaced with the TF4500 frigates or TF2000 destroyers; finances allowing..

 

[Anmdt]

MİLGEM 9,10,11 ve 12'nci gemiler için kritik karar

MİLGEM Programı'nın 9, 10, 11 ve 12'nci gemilerinin inşası için karar çıktı. Gemiler, TF-2000 Hava Savunma Harbi Muhripi değil, firkateyn olarak inşa edilecek.

www.savunmasanayist.com

I was always in the opinion that TF2000 destroyers were an overkill for us at the current climate.
With 4 Yavuz Class ships becoming almost obsolete and the 4 Gabya Class not in line with the modern navy we want to have, it was high time they took the right decision to go with a further 4 İstif Class ships.
So quantity wise we are not adding new ships to the frigate fleet. But modernising it further.
In 4-5 years time our Navy will have 8 İstif Class , 4 Barbaros Class and 4 Gabya Class ships as far as frigates go.
With 10 Hisar Class OPVs and 4 Ada Class Corvettes we will have a very potent littoral waters fleet that can be used in the shallow waters of the Sea of Islands.
Hopefully with the first Milden subs becoming part of the fleet, the 4 Gabya frigates will also be replaced with the TF4500 frigates or TF2000 destroyers; finances allowing..

We need TF2000 in the longer term if we are to have a proper presence in Libya and Somalia. That's why the project is given time until after 2030, because it needs CAFRAD and EW (not talking or Ares series) and missiles (Siper B2, Gezgin) to mature. It wasn't listed in today's SSIK because it's already covered and going on, within the design phase. 4 new Class I missiles should possibly replace 4 Gabyas by 2030 and the remaining 4 Gabyas will be retired as TF2000 approaches.

 

[CAN_TR]

MİLGEM 9,10,11 ve 12'nci gemiler için kritik karar

MİLGEM Programı'nın 9, 10, 11 ve 12'nci gemilerinin inşası için karar çıktı. Gemiler, TF-2000 Hava Savunma Harbi Muhripi değil, firkateyn olarak inşa edilecek.

www.savunmasanayist.com

I was always in the opinion that TF2000 destroyers were an overkill for us at the current climate.
With 4 Yavuz Class ships becoming almost obsolete and the 4 Gabya Class not in line with the modern navy we want to have, it was high time they took the right decision to go with a further 4 İstif Class ships.
So quantity wise we are not adding new ships to the frigate fleet. But modernising it further.
In 4-5 years time our Navy will have 8 İstif Class , 4 Barbaros Class and 4 Gabya Class ships as far as frigates go.
With 10 Hisar Class OPVs and 4 Ada Class Corvettes we will have a very potent littoral waters fleet that can be used in the shallow waters of the Sea of Islands.
Hopefully with the first Milden subs becoming part of the fleet, the 4 Gabya frigates will also be replaced with the TF4500 frigates or TF2000 destroyers; finances allowing..

Not really a overkill just not the priority for the Navy right now as it looks like. I think that they wait until all the subsystems/weapons for it mature first.

 

[Anmdt]

A little bit early to make a decision for the production of TF-2000. I guess the additional 4 to be built is the I-class.

It is,indeed. Some people tried to rush it for political reasons but few left sane people stopped it as it has a negative effect on exports.

 

[Anmdt]

@Anmdt Milgem 9-12?

Now I wonder what the supposed 'improvisations' are that were once mentioned by the high ups. And what is even more surprising, we are talking about 12 warships and 8 auxiliaries and 7 FAC until 2030+, but the number of shipyards, well, a bit confusing.

4 I-class going to STM&TAIS + RMK

4 OPV to Pendik shipyard

4 OPVs from STM&TAIS (after current I-class)

Landing ships in ADIK (TAIS), but the schedule is tight. Might as well be Dearsan if not for the LSTs.

MCMW may go to Ada shipyard / Dearsan

FAC in Ares/Yonca, this is doable because the FAC workforce will be completely different and once the design is frozen they will be subcontractors.

 

[Bogeyman]

MİLGEM 9,10,11 ve 12'nci gemiler için kritik karar

MİLGEM Programı'nın 9, 10, 11 ve 12'nci gemilerinin inşası için karar çıktı. Gemiler, TF-2000 Hava Savunma Harbi Muhripi değil, firkateyn olarak inşa edilecek.

www.savunmasanayist.com

I was always in the opinion that TF2000 destroyers were an overkill for us at the current climate.
With 4 Yavuz Class ships becoming almost obsolete and the 4 Gabya Class not in line with the modern navy we want to have, it was high time they took the right decision to go with a further 4 İstif Class ships.
So quantity wise we are not adding new ships to the frigate fleet. But modernising it further.
In 4-5 years time our Navy will have 8 İstif Class , 4 Barbaros Class and 4 Gabya Class ships as far as frigates go.
With 10 Hisar Class OPVs and 4 Ada Class Corvettes we will have a very potent littoral waters fleet that can be used in the shallow waters of the Sea of Islands.
Hopefully with the first Milden subs becoming part of the fleet, the 4 Gabya frigates will also be replaced with the TF4500 frigates or TF2000 destroyers; finances allowing..

Technically, the Sea of Islands is not suitable for naval deployment. Because the threat of both warplanes and land-based anti-ship missiles is not suitable for deploying warships in the Sea of Islands. These ships are being built for the Mediterranean, Marmara Sea and Black Sea. In the simulations made by the Navy for the Sea of Islands, no ship can avoid sinking in the first few days of the war. Therefore, if there is a Greek-Turkish war, we will not see fleets sailing in the Sea of Islands.

 

[boredaf]

Now wondering what are the presumed 'improvizations' that were once mentioned by high-ups. And what is more surprising, we are talking about 12 warships and 8 auxillaries and 7 FAC until 2030+ but the count of shipyards..well a little confusing.

4 I-Class goes to STM&TAIS

4 OPV to be done in Pendik shipyard

4 OPV by STM&TAIS (after I-Classes)

Landing ships in ADIK (TAIS) but the schedule is cramped. Might as well be Dearsan if not talking about LSTs.

MCMW will possibly go to Ada shipyard / Dearsan

FAC in Ares/Yonca this is doable because FAC workers will be entirely different and once design is frozen they will be subcontractor.

Looking at the list like this, it looks really cramped, can more civilian shipyards be brought into the fold to work with Navy? Also, could the FAC design when they finally choose effect which shipyard can build it?

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

This is actually a very good decision. Me, @Knowledgeseeker and few others were hoping for 4x more Istif ships from the beginning. Turkish navy should not be the least capable of three services.

Yes, but I was hoping that we would see a middle gap between the I-class, and the TF-2000 with more armament in place. Perhaps this decision makes the "little" dream vanish since Turkiye will now have 8 I-CLASS+ 4-ada class+ future procurement of the cost TF-2000.

 

[Sanchez]

Hard agree. Though one is gotta add, We really do not have a ship capable of fleet air defence, that's TF2000 territory. If Turkey is interested in a blue water CSG which is basically a carrier, one oiler, one logistics ship, 2-3 GP frigates, 1-2 AA destroyers(or frigates, same thing in this sense) and 1-2 subs; we need:

The continuation of the current 16 frigate layout + 4-6 more,
3-4 destroyers,
One more oiler and logistics ship,
and at least 2 more subs.

Currently, we are set to loose the 4 Yavuz Class ships in the near(15+-) future, as well as all the 8 Burak Class avisos and some number of earlier FACs, Doğan Class with 4 ships are goners, one was already decommissioned recently. 4 Rüzgars will see a similar fate in the not so distant future.

To make up for all the losses, we currently projected to have, 4 İ Class frigates to replace Yavuz Class, 8 Hisars to replace Buraks; currently TBD number of MPACs to replace Doğan and Rüzgars. We can lift some of the weight off of the surface ships with drones in the next decades, yes, but they will never be enough to fully replace actual ships in littoral seas. Number of TF2000s is not yet certain and also not certain if one or two Gabyas will be replaced, they are getting older as well. With Milden, By the time Reis Class is fully operational on all fours, earlier Atılays, at least 2 boats are also goners.

Our projects are not adding numbers, they are replacing our old stuff. I'm not seeing a new outlook to make the navy bigger, it just doesn't exist yet. And if it does, budget for it is currently not there, that's for certain.

Want to go off what i wrote back in april. In short to medium(10-15+/- years) term, from what we started with, which was 8 Gabyas, 4 Yavuz, 4 Barbaros=16 we are to be left with 4 Gabyas, 4 Barbaros+8 Istif Class ships. 8 Burak Class avisos are goners and hopefully will be replaced with Hisars. Add on to this 4 Adas for littoral missions. There is an increase in VLS count, indeed, as the 4 Gabya and Yavuz didn't have them to start with. But when 8 ship I Class is complete, we are still left with 16 frigates, 4 corvettes in Adas, and 8(?) Hisars. Same as today. It is not yet clear how armed Hisars are going to be. Yes, they will be FFBNW for many systems, but that's more wishful thinking than anything and it's more of at least 6 months long retrofit than plug and play like Americans envisioned with their LCS.

There is increase in tonnage and a increase in AA coverage for self defense. Nothing yet for increase in number of ships, firepower and theater level AA, which the future carrier will need and Anadolu and any amphibs we have currently desperately need.

 

[TheInsider]

Want to go off what i wrote back in april. In short to medium(10-15+/- years) term, from what we started with, which was 8 Gabyas, 4 Yavuz, 4 Barbaros=16 we are to be left with 4 Gabyas, 4 Barbaros+8 Istif Class ships. 8 Burak Class avisos are goners and hopefully will be replaced with Hisars. Add on to this 4 Adas for littoral missions. There is an increase in VLS count, indeed, as the 4 Gabya and Yavuz didn't have them to start with. But when 8 ship I Class is complete, we are still left with 16 frigates, 4 corvettes in Adas, and 8(?) Hisars. Same as today. It is not yet clear how armed Hisars are going to be. Yes, they will be FFBNW for many systems, but that's more wishful thinking than anything and it's more of at least 6 months long retrofit than plug and play like Americans envisioned with their LCS.

There is increase in tonnage and a increase in AA coverage for self defense. Nothing yet for increase in number of ships, firepower and theater level AA, which the future carrier will need and Anadolu and any amphibs we have currently desperately need.

We have 6 Burak Class OPVs. Total corvette fleet is 10 pieces (4x Ada, 6x Burak). Burak class is lightly armed. We can replace corvette fleet completely with 2+8 Hisar class OPVs and upgrade Ada class to turn them into proper frigates. Ada class has turbine engines(LM2500) and they are luxurious for the current role. CODELOD Hisar class is a better fit. The oldest of Ada class is 13 years old so we can start with the oldest one and upgrade one by one like the Barbaros mod.