TR Naval Programs

[TheInsider]

Want to go off what i wrote back in april. In short to medium(10-15+/- years) term, from what we started with, which was 8 Gabyas, 4 Yavuz, 4 Barbaros=16 we are to be left with 4 Gabyas, 4 Barbaros+8 Istif Class ships. 8 Burak Class avisos are goners and hopefully will be replaced with Hisars. Add on to this 4 Adas for littoral missions. There is an increase in VLS count, indeed, as the 4 Gabya and Yavuz didn't have them to start with. But when 8 ship I Class is complete, we are still left with 16 frigates, 4 corvettes in Adas, and 8(?) Hisars. Same as today. It is not yet clear how armed Hisars are going to be. Yes, they will be FFBNW for many systems, but that's more wishful thinking than anything and it's more of at least 6 months long retrofit than plug and play like Americans envisioned with their LCS.

There is increase in tonnage and a increase in AA coverage for self defense. Nothing yet for increase in number of ships, firepower and theater level AA, which the future carrier will need and Anadolu and any amphibs we have currently desperately need.

We have 6 Burak Class OPVs. Total corvette fleet is 10 pieces (4x Ada, 6x Burak). Burak class is lightly armed. We can replace corvette fleet completely with 2+8 Hisar class OPVs and upgrade Ada class to turn them into proper frigates. Ada class has turbine engines(LM2500) and they are luxurious for the current role. CODELOD Hisar class is a better fit. The oldest of Ada class is 13 years old so we can start with the oldest one and upgrade one by one like the Barbaros mod.

 

[Quasar]

ok guess the next chief of staff will be from the navy

 

[Heartbang]

In the simulations made by the Navy for the Sea of Islands, no ship can avoid sinking in the first few days of the war. Therefore, if there is a Greek-Turkish war, we will not see fleets sailing in the Sea of Islands

I assume that's what USV's are for?

 

[Sanchez]

We have 6 Burak Class OPVs. Total corvette fleet is 10 pieces (4x Ada, 6x Burak). Burak class is lightly armed. We can replace corvette fleet completely with 2+8 Hisar class OPVs and upgrade Ada class to turn them into proper frigates. Ada class has turbine engines(LM2500) and they are luxurious for the current role. CODELOD Hisar class is a better fit. The oldest of Ada class is 13 years old so we can start with the oldest one and upgrade one by one like the Barbaros mod.

I don't see Buraks enter 2030 tbh. Those ships are ancient and bring nothing to the table in this day and are now also called patrol boats. Adas with their turbines are good little ships and maybe they can be upgraded a la Baburs with smaller, cold launch VLS.

 

[Bogeyman]

I assume that's what USV's are for?

USV, Unmanned submarines, mini submarines, submarines and air fleets may be just this at most in the current conjuncture.

 

[Aloster]

We have 6 Burak Class OPVs. Total corvette fleet is 10 pieces (4x Ada, 6x Burak). Burak class is lightly armed. We can replace corvette fleet completely with 2+8 Hisar class OPVs and upgrade Ada class to turn them into proper frigates. Ada class has turbine engines(LM2500) and they are luxurious for the current role. CODELOD Hisar class is a better fit. The oldest of Ada class is 13 years old so we can start with the oldest one and upgrade one by one like the Barbaros mod.

İnstead of upgrading Ada why dont we convert them to Opvs with changing drive system to Codelod . After striping old drive also , we can use parts at new additional Istif . So we can increase Istif numbers to 12. Or we can use this drives at planned 4 opv so we can obtain new istif like corvettes better than Adas. Also we can use upgrade parts at new ships like new radars and sensor suits.

 

[Fairon]

I completely agree.

On the other hand, 8 Istif, 8 4000-5000t frigate and 8 TF2000 would be my wet dream.

Now the rest please.

Thank you.

 

[Bogeyman]

Fatih Mehmet Küçük said in today's broadcast that there are rumors of revision in the TF-2000s after Ukraine hit the Moskva cruiser.


Correction: They will increase the tonnage to 9 thousand tons. 96 VLS is coming.

 

[what]

It is,indeed. Some people tried to rush it for political reasons but few left sane people stopped it as it has a negative effect on exports.

How would it hurt exports?

 

[TR_123456]

Hopefully with the first Milden subs becoming part of the fleet, the 4 Gabya frigates will also be replaced with the TF4500 frigates

At least.

 

[Huelague]

M

Which missiles will be used for VLS as they can not be launched from torpedo tubes?

Maybe 'Gezgin' or any ballistic missile?

 

[dBSPL]

M

Maybe 'Gezgin' or any ballistic missile?

Rather than launching a single stage missile vertically, two of the torpedo tubes could be sacrificed in favor of, for example, two 650-800mm special type launchers. I think the answers to the questions about why vertical launch is wanting are a little bit gray zone. I mean tons of speculation in a highly restricted area, and those who know something can't open their mouths for some reasons.

Btw, we are not a nuclear power. But if you want to launch a few tons of missiles vertically from underwater, may be interpreted that you are close/desire to that point. Some things don't need to be made explicit, the whole picture tells you something.

 

[Afif]

Rather than launching a single stage missile vertically, two of the torpedo tubes could be sacrificed in favor of, for example, two 650-800mm special type launchers. I think the answers to the questions about why vertical launch is wanting are a little bit gray zone. I mean tons of speculation in a highly restricted area, and those who know something can't open their mouths for some reasons.

Technically it can be done, but I think sacrificing Torpedo tubes is almost never a good idea for diesel electric boats. I am firmly against it. Because it doesn't have the large torpedo room of SSNs. So, you gotta be really careful with priority management and don't want your boat to run out of its primary weapon.

 

[Anmdt]

How would it hurt exports?

The premature start of construction (cutting of steel, laying of the keel) without any real progress in the background gives the impression that the project is delayed and progressing slowly. So, a loss of prestige or image, which raises questions such as "well, that platform took years to launch and commission, how do you propose to get it in the service in time for us".

I don't see Buraks enter 2030 tbh. Those ships are ancient and bring nothing to the table in this day and are now also called patrol boats. Adas with their turbines are good little ships and maybe they can be upgraded a la Baburs with smaller, cold launch VLS.

The Burak class has long been relegated to patrol boat duties (perhaps the heavy weapons on board have become obsolete), and one is being used as an experimental platform to test the downsizing of Advent and a suite for future patrol boats and another being retired. Moreover, recently they have received patrol boat status along with NTPB in DzKK's website, officially.

 

[Anmdt]

Which missiles will be used for VLS as they can not be launched from torpedo tubes?

For the first or second VLS?

For the first, think of it as a provisional space. Interpreting the Navy's habit of incorporating future visions into their current designs, they may have left a space where Gezgin or others can be accommodated first, then whatever comes next in the future.

As for the second, who knows. There are only rumours.

Technically it can be done, but I think sacrificing Torpedo tubes is almost never a good idea for diesel electric boats. I am firmly against it. Because it doesn't have the large torpedo room of SSNs. So, you gotta be really careful with priority management and don't want your boat to run out of its primary weapon.

And interpreting the inclusion of the VLS module in the Milden, that is a complex and rough way that the Navy had opposed earlier, the Navy should have finally considered torpedo tubes as rather flexible points to use expendable UUVs, torpedoes and Sub-Atmaca (short range set of weapons) and others, while shifting the surface attack to VLS (long range set of weapons).

There may also be another reason related to Gezgin's dimensions, which were recently updated, making torpedo tubes unnecessarily long and unfeasible, thus prompting the switch to VLS. However, I am sure that either Kara Atmaca (or maybe SOM) will get a submarine version or Gezgin will get a 'Lite' version.

Speaking of Milden, the VLS launch weapons refer to an era beyond 2035, so I think there are plenty of opportunities to do a fictional experiment on what can be done with these VLS.

This post only contains information from open sources or just wild thoughts, nothing concrete.

 

[Anmdt]

Fatih Mehmet Küçük said in today's broadcast that there are rumors of revision in the TF-2000s after Ukraine hit the Moskva cruiser.


Correction: They will increase the tonnage to 9 thousand tons. 96 VLS is coming.

Frankly, I doubt it, but we'll see. They have already gone a long way (from SSB's point of view and financially) by taking it from 7000 to 8500 tonnes. Last I saw they had taken the conceptual design we saw in the latest IDEF to the functional/contract design stage. I expect minor revisions beyond this point, which may include PDMS and other things that were not included in the conceptual design (by choice, such as the EW suite).

At least.

Unfortunately the TF4500 was just a concept design made by STM to be offered during feasibility studies made for the TF2000, after that failed (we have seen the course the Navy has taken) they took the design out in public and at fairs, then it faded away. STM sometimes acts proactively. (OPV designs, TS1700, STM500 et al.)

 

[uçuyorum]

Speaking of gezgin, 16 cruise missiles in Istif is more than usual isn't it? Even much larger ships use mostly 8. Is it possible to change half of these to gezgin based on mission?

 

[Anmdt]

Speaking of gezgin, 16 cruise missiles in Istif is more than usual isn't it? Even much larger ships use mostly 8. Is it possible to change half of these to gezgin based on mission?

The I-Class is not made for this, but the point of having a VLS is to make it flexible, so yes, it can do 1 or 16 or none.

 

[uçuyorum]

The I-Class is not made for this, but the point of having a VLS is to make it flexible, so yes, it can do 1 or 16 or none.

I meant instead of Atmaca launchers since VLS is already limited.

 

[Bogeyman]

Frankly, I doubt it, but we'll see. They have already gone a long way (from SSB's point of view and financially) by taking it from 7000 to 8500 tonnes. Last I saw they had taken the conceptual design we saw in the latest IDEF to the functional/contract design stage. I expect minor revisions beyond this point, which may include PDMS and other things that were not included in the conceptual design (by choice, such as the EW suite).


Unfortunately the TF4500 was just a concept design made by STM to be offered during feasibility studies made for the TF2000, after that failed (we have seen the course the Navy has taken) they took the design out in public and at fairs, then it faded away. STM sometimes acts proactively. (OPV designs, TS1700, STM500 et al.)

It is said that before the final decision, the navy lobbied for a 5000-ton ship, but they had to settle for the İstif class. They insistently wanted a ship that could sail into the ocean.