TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[TR_123456]

To my honorable Turkish members. Can someone update me on the status of delivery of 52 Super Mushak basic trainer to the TuAF. Thanks

First 3 delivered in October 2022,no news about the rest.

 

[boredaf]

The news might be fake ob the other hand Critical Türkiye decision from Sweden! Embargo lifted
After a long embargo process, Sweden started to approve export licenses for Turkey in the field of defense industry.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://m.yeniakit.com.tr/foto-galeri/turkiye-yeni-f-35ini-buldu-abd-savas-ucagindan-cok-daha-ucuz-anlasma-her-an-olabilir-71259&ved=2ahUKEwiCq_jAm72DAxXdS_EDHZXMDucQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw14RQvY4j_HmSG06RW1OCdQ

Doesn't really matter when it comes to Gripen, it would still require US approval as it has engines and other components from them.

 

[DBdev]

Turkiye should in my honest opinion not go for Eurofighter. Let's face it everything that European consortiums have build are crap.

NH90 is crap, Tiger helicopter was crap (Australia dumped both and reverts back to American quality), the British retire their Eurofighter's at half life.

We are used to sturdy helicopters and fighter jets, we really torture the life out of the UH-60 black hawks, we use our F16's to depletion. Eurofighter is an aircraft that will give us a lot of headache.

Only criteria that matters in a modern day war is RCS, Gripen-E is a small plane but still not stealthy, our Kizilelma would do a better job and can take more risks than manned Gripen can. Kizilelma, Anka-3 and Kaan production line, stealth materials R&D, must be sped up instead of wasting billions on STILL expensive (65$million*instead of $200million Eurofighter) Gripen-E target plane. Anything less stealthy than F-35 is a bad investment in year 2024. At least we can make our planes more stealthy by R&D. But not if we waste those tens of billions in R&D money on shiny but obsolete 4th gen fighters when first 6th gen plane B-21 Raider is already on the air with a RCS smaller than a mosquito not only in S, L and X bands but in UHF and VHF band too. Northrop Grumman B-21 is pretty much an UFO at this point, stealth wise.

 

[Sanchez]

UK is to to strip Tranche 1 EF2000s to supply T2 and T3. There goes one more possible idea.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1743577559646847159

 

[Quasar]

Fake targets produced for the Air Force by the Turkish TDU defense company... The company can produce fake itargets of any platform, regardless of air, land or sea.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1743631023152193589

 

[Afif]

Only criteria that matters in a modern day war is RCS,

Passive targeting (from onboard and off-board sensor fusion) and network-centric articeture are equally important.

 

[Rodeo]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1744086178821738583

 

[uçuyorum]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1744086178821738583

I wonder if this is prep for also agreeing to sell to Turkey or it's to tell everyone look we authorized one of them it should be enough kinda thing that makes it even more unlikely for us.

 

[Rodeo]

I wonder if this is prep for also agreeing to sell to Turkey or it's to tell everyone look we authorized one of them it should be enough kinda thing that makes it even more unlikely for us.

I always assume the worst when it comes to German politics.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

One should not rely on others and not spend a cent more in the USA & Europe. Instead, use the money you would pay for the Eurofighter/F-16 to invest directly in the Hürjet & F-16 Özgur I & II and accelerate them to the absolute maximum.
So that everything is completed in 2-3 years at the latest and all Turkish F-16s are upgraded to the equivalent of Block 70.
And 10 additional Hürjets will be available as Block 0 for TCG Anadolu.
Then 10 more Hürjets every year, and we would have a buffer until KAAN arrives.
Then neither Greece nor Saudi Arabia & Co would have a certain head start.
The KAAN project can then be completed in parallel without any pressure, and at least 3-4 prototypes can be produced by 2029 to correct all errors. The first Block 0 could then be produced directly with its own engine in 2030.
Until then, there would also be the opportunity to make minor design changes to the aircraft, and additionally to get an improved version of MURAD AESA radar as version 2.0, and improved AVIONIK and the radar-absorbing coating/painting from the findings of the Anka 3/Kizilelma and F-16 Özgur and Hürjet.

 

[RMZN]

I wonder if this is prep for also agreeing to sell to Turkey or it's to tell everyone look we authorized one of them it should be enough kinda thing that makes it even more unlikely for us.

maybe if Erdogan didnt openly support Hamas. They can overlook SA human rights abuses but not any hostility towards Israel or criticism of their actions.

 

[Nutuk]

American pilot about F16 vs F35
He basically says F16 beats F35 in dogfight, but from distance F16 has no chance. A 4th gen fighter jet stands no chance against 5th gen. that's why I am vehemently opposed against purchase of Eurofighter (pure crap)

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1743736171350401516

4th gen fighter stands no chance against F35

But what about Kizilelma vs F35? I really would like to hear stealth assessments from Baykar, how stealth is Kizilelma?

 

[Afif]

There is not much serious convo to have on F-35 vs KE.

KAAN vs F-35 on the other hand could be an interesting discussion.

 

[Nutuk]

There is not much serious convo to have on F-35 vs KE.

KAAN vs F-35 on the other hand could be an interesting discussion.

KE vs F35 makes as much sense as Kaan vs F35

Stealth seems to be the determining factor, see first shoot first. Question is how stealth is KE and how stealth will be Kaan (assuming that 0.01 RCS is a real value for F35, cos honestly we do not know the real RCS of F35 neither)

 

[TheInsider]

At some point, stealth loses its importance. Let's say F-35 sees KE at 20km and KE sees F-35 at 10km. The fighter with 360-degree IR detection and tracking will have the upper hand.

 

[Nutuk]

I started this discussion of drone vs F35, because all nations (who can build it) are rushing now to build stealth "loyal wingman" drones.

The basic idea is of course that these drones fly ahead of the "mothership" 5th or 6th generation fighter jet. They will serve both ways, if they can detect the enemy fighter or drone first the first to release the missile will be at advantage. But even if the drone is shotdown, it may give the mothership time to shoot the missiles and scoot.

So my argument of KE vs F35 is not just a fantasy, it's a quite probable scenario in the short future

 

[Afif]

KE vs F35 makes as much sense as Kaan vs F35

Stealth seems to be the determining factor, see first shoot first. Question is how stealth is KE and how stealth will be Kaan (assuming that 0.01 RCS is a real value for F35, cos honestly we do not know the real RCS of F35 neither)

Obviously the exact number is classified. But what we know from OSINT so far, it is pretty reliable to assume it is atleast –30 dB, possibly more. Which means a 0.001 RCS. (Sea a clean F-35's radar scattering simulation in X band, and then the new gen RAM is ought to minimize the RCS by -20 dB at least, possibly by -25 dB.)

 

[Huelague]

F16 beats F35 in dogfight

In which way? Agility, mobility , manoeuvre, speed, reaction..?

 

[boredaf]

A 4th gen fighter jet stands no chance against 5th gen.

Point of having new and capable 4th, or rather 4.5, gen planes is not to have them go against 5th gen planes. 5th gen planes are expensive to produce AND to fly, that's why even US and China is still buying/producing 4th gen planes. When US air force asked the Congress for permission to retire 150 aircraft, neither F-16s nor F-15s were included in that list. You don't need to use an F-35/J-20 for every mission, sometimes an F-15 or J-10 does the job just fine. Why put extra hours on the engine and the frame unnecessarily, and for a high price? Smaller nations that barely have an air force worth mentioning might transition all the way to 5th gen but for nations that have to have a big air force for diverse missions it is neither economical nor logical.

One should not rely on others and not spend a cent more in the USA & Europe. Instead, use the money you would pay for the Eurofighter/F-16 to invest directly in the Hürjet & F-16 Özgur I & II and accelerate them to the absolute maximum.
So that everything is completed in 2-3 years at the latest and all Turkish F-16s are upgraded to the equivalent of Block 70.
And 10 additional Hürjets will be available as Block 0 for TCG Anadolu.
Then 10 more Hürjets every year, and we would have a buffer until KAAN arrives.
Then neither Greece nor Saudi Arabia & Co would have a certain head start.
The KAAN project can then be completed in parallel without any pressure, and at least 3-4 prototypes can be produced by 2029 to correct all errors. The first Block 0 could then be produced directly with its own engine in 2030.
Until then, there would also be the opportunity to make minor design changes to the aircraft, and additionally to get an improved version of MURAD AESA radar as version 2.0, and improved AVIONIK and the radar-absorbing coating/painting from the findings of the Anka 3/Kizilelma and F-16 Özgur and Hürjet.

Hürjet is a year or two away from starting its production as a trainer. There isn't even a proper light attack configuration yet, let alone a naval version. It isn't even a naval aircraft, there are multiple parts/systems that would have to be changed for it to be one. And TCG Anadolu itself would have to go through major changes to be able to use Hürjet, hell as it is, it won't even be able to use KE.

And all of these doesn't just take money, it also takes time, resources and manpower. What makes you think that only thing slowing down Hürjet and Özgür project is money? You are making a lot of assumptions based on nothing but it'll all be faster if we just throw money at it. There are only so many designers, engineers and technicians with different expertise that can work on these projects, just as only so many companies, which are also handling other projects.

 

[Nutuk]

In which way? Agility, mobility , manoeuvre, speed, reaction..?

Yes I guess so, not my opinion but that of an experienced US pilot.