TR Land Vehicle Programs

[Kaan Azman]

The PARS IV 6x6 Special Operation’s (S-Ops) Vehicle is designed to meet the tactical and operational requirements of military and internal security forces whose mission is “special”.

All team members enjoy a high level of electro-optic situational awareness. The vehicle special design provides the driver and personnel located in the front section of the vehicle with maximum direct view situational awareness, of over 180°.

View attachment 64106

Alright but what's the extension on the back? Drone hub?

 

[Sanchez]

New Pars Alpha 8x8(I think it's the Pars X from few months back) is to be officially unveiled next month at WDS Riyadh 2024.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1745804548118049213

Direct competitor to Boxer incoming?

 

[Kartal1]

New Pars Alpha 8x8(I think it's the Pars X from few months back) is to be officially unveiled next month at WDS Riyadh 2024.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1745804548118049213

Direct competitor to Boxer incoming?

I liked the concept a lot! The engine at front design and the modularity is just very good. Its appearance is also ALPHA!

 

[Stimpy75]

Big thx to Wiedzmin....my guess is for Oman

 

[Sanchez]

Also the Kaplan STAs on the background.

 

[Bogeyman]

Creditds @Bürküt

We need it absolutely. You can't use always drones. Mortar strike is vital but top of our mortar vehicles are opened and they arent capable of rapid precise strike as well as direct fire.
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Jews stole the idea of breach loading mortar. But autoloader seems from USSR.




Anyway 120mm guided mortar round is great idea. Ammunition is also programmable.
PD( point detonating)
PDD ( point detonating/delay)
PRX( proximity fuze)

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What will bring direct fire capability:


You could destroy walls.
With laser guidance you could destroy land vehicles, IFV, even you could damage weak parts of a MBT.

With Delayed fuze you could hit through windows inside buildings.


Edit:

This vehicle should have laser designator so I wonder if the gun could launch LAHAD ATGM? İf yes it is crazy.

The vehicle may encounter a MBT on his way to duty , or in a mission or return from duty. With its 8kg explosive, LAHAT destroys a tank and etc.

Automatic Mortar vehicle plus tank killer.

Last year, VURAN armored vehicles integrated with the ALKAR 120mm Automatic Mortar Weapon System entered the inventory of the Gendarmerie General Command.

ALKAR 120 mm Mortar Weapon System General Features

Maximum range 8 km
Minimum range 1.5 km

• All kinds of rifled and non-rifled domestic/foreign 120 mm mortars
barrel integrability
• Thanks to its modular system architecture, caterpillar vehicles, tactical
integration into wheeled vehicles and fixed platforms
• Do not allow the Recoil Mechanism to hit the platform during shooting.
integrated, minimizing the transmitted shot load
Increasing the variety of tools available
• Precise, thanks to the Automatic Ammunition Loading System
Fast and safe ammunition loading opportunity
• All types of mortar ammunition (MOD209, MOD226, MOD236,
Availability with MOD227 etc.)
• Automatic and automatic firing in accordance with the calculated firing command.
precise orientation possible
• Precise position and barrel with Inertial Positioning System
orientation detection,
• Position, direction, altitude for Departure and Navigation
Generating data and routing the route on the map
representation
• Task-oriented, colorful, graphical user interface
• Fast and easy with 'NATO Armaments Ballistic Kernel (NABK)'
precision ballistic calculation
• First Speed Measurement
• Receiving meteorological information via digital communication
• Accurate ballistics using initial velocity and meteorological data
calculation
• Execution of all mortar fire missions
• Digital map of Battlefield elements/information
display on
• In all kinds of tactical and operational structuring
availability
• Ability to perform integrated tasks with ADOP-2000,
• Forward Observer, Target Detection Radars and TOMES
Integration with meteorological systems
• Ignition can be done in manual and automatic modes
• Emergency stop

https://wwwcdn.aselsan.com/api/file/ALKAR_120mm_HAVAN_TR-(1).pdf

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Big thx to Wiedzmin....my guess is for Oman
View attachment 64723

How old are these pictures? Oman received all of their PARS vehicles between 2017-2020.

 

[Stimpy75]

Wiedzmin found them some days ago....but rather old is my guess

 

[Stuka]

How old are these pictures? Oman received all of their PARS vehicles between 2017-2020.

According to Google it is from an Article published 28.08.2020

Dev zırhlıların Umman'a teslimatını tamamladı

Savunma sanayisinin önde gelen zırhlı kara aracı üreticilerinden FNSS, Pars III 8x8 ve Pars III 6x6'ların farklı konfigürasyonlarından oluşan 172 zırhlı aracın son parti teslimatını gerçekleştirdi. FNSS, bundan sonraki süreçte araçların lojistik destek ihtiyacını karşılayacak.

www.gazetevatan.com

 

[Altay_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1747604667675132179

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1747670866408730764

 

[UcanTost]

Any news on Altay and a true IFV purchase? What the fuck are they doing behind their office desks?

 

[Saithan]

I think the design on our motar systems on vehicles is outdated and poses a crucial weakness tbh. Especially considering how many times drones have been used the last 2 years.

it's necessary to have a turret mortar system where the top is enclosed.

 

[Kartal1]

I think the design on our motar systems on vehicles is outdated and poses a crucial weakness tbh. Especially considering how many times drones have been used the last 2 years.

it's necessary to have a turret mortar system where the top is enclosed.

@UkroTurk abi had some ideas that would fit in the concept.

 

[B_A]

Any news on Altay and a true IFV purchase? What the fuck are they doing behind their office desks?

Altay s 18 months delayed again to 2026…

 

[B_A]

I hope your source is not the hair of Sinan Engin.
BMC still aims for Q4 2025, stated by the BMC CEO himself in last December.

The" end of 2025 or early 2026" is 90% means 2026.

Last year BMC said complete the factory installation by the beginning of 2025,that meant start production at Q2 or Q3

Yerli motor "Yeni ALTAY Tankı"nı yürütmeye hazırlanıyor - Dünya Gazetesi

BMC Savunma Genel Müdürü Mehmet Karaaslan, ""2025 başına kadar Yeni ALTAY testlerini ve fabrikayı bitirip yıl içinde de seri üretim tanklarının devamını Türk Silahlı Kuvvetlerine teslim etmeyi hedefliyoruz" dedi.

www.dunya.com

Karaaslan said, "We aim to complete all of these activities by the beginning of 2025 and deliver the rest of the mass production tanks to the Turkish Armed Forces within the year. I hope we will complete this process without any delay." he said.

Our land platform delayed too many times.

 

[Zafer]

The" end of 2025 or early 2026" is 90% means 2026.

Last year BMC said complete the factory installation by the beginning of 2025,that meant start production at Q2 or Q3

Yerli motor "Yeni ALTAY Tankı"nı yürütmeye hazırlanıyor - Dünya Gazetesi

BMC Savunma Genel Müdürü Mehmet Karaaslan, ""2025 başına kadar Yeni ALTAY testlerini ve fabrikayı bitirip yıl içinde de seri üretim tanklarının devamını Türk Silahlı Kuvvetlerine teslim etmeyi hedefliyoruz" dedi.

www.dunya.com

Karaaslan said, "We aim to complete all of these activities by the beginning of 2025 and deliver the rest of the mass production tanks to the Turkish Armed Forces within the year. I hope we will complete this process without any delay." he said.

Our land platform delayed too many times.

I would like Altay to be delayed longer if it will be a better tank in the end. I like it to be a hybrid drive if it will not add more than a year to the development.

 

[Kartal1]

I would like Altay to be delayed longer if it will be a better tank in the end. I like it to be a hybrid drive if it will not add more than a year to the development.

We all know that the delays have nothing to do with Altay being a good tank or not. The design and everything else is already there for everybody to see. The problem is with establishing the manufacturing line in which serial production should start. While every year since the last decade we are talking about Altay serial production to start "next year" our soldiers are moving with M60A3s in Syria.

First it was that Otokar's offer was too expensive, then the German embargo, then it was the lack of national powerpack, then it is British powerpack, no wait... Lets try the Korean one, then there is no factory, then there is a factory, but almost ready, then there is factory, but.......

Altay is the biggest fiasco of the Turkish Defence Industry!

The upgrade programs for our older crap are the same way. There is an upgrade package, it is too expensive, lets put the best armor in the world, lets put another turret, lets put this, lets put that, active protection integration... almost, everything is almost ready, signing the contract, not exactly, almost signing it, signing it at last and then? The result is the same. A couple M60TMs for the cameras here and there and when HTS attack Azez we are showing force with two of these:

What happens after that? The result is below. The sons of three mothers burned like candles inside and a fourth that will have to live with the trauma of seeing all this. What would their mothers tell us after we told them the story of our failure in both Altay and the supposed upgrades?

How are we so relaxed while we are talking of conquering cities like Ain Al-Arab, Manbij, Hasakah, Tal Rifat? People are even talking about the liberation of Aleppo... How can we be so relaxed while a regional war is forming, the main fighting ground is in countries in which we have a double digit number of military bases and all of the actors in this scenario (for now) are responsible for bombing these exact bases directly or non-directly resulting in hundreds of martyrs and crippled?

Instead of waiting or hoping, what about getting our shit together, upgrade at least all existing M60A3s in inventory and give the f*cking super-duper alien technology tank to someone who is actually capable of producing it? For example the only company that produced and delivered multiple tanks to its customer.

Yes their (FNSS) output may not be 100 units per month, but till 2073 they may deliver the first batch of 250 Altays which is actually pretty close to the timeframe in which BMCs serial production would just be about to be ready to almost start, but then the price and the lack of laser blaster APS and shiet... Haha, not haha!

I am sick of ultra-modern prototypes with sci-fi fire extinguishing systems, KBRN ventilation, low silhouette, front engine, back engine, super-duper Bor armor, unmanned turrets, integrated drones, alien APS technology, modular (a modern term), state of the art (even more modern term), "the best of the best in their class" tanks and armored vehicles being displayed at shows, fests, exhibitions while my soldiers are burning alive in M60s due to a team of goat scratchers with a total IQ of 13, firing a missile that they probably got in return for 10 cows and a 2000$ in cash, utilizing technology from the time of my father or even worse... A rocket sold for 150$ at the stand for female cosmetics in Raqqa utilizing technology from the time of my grandfather. I am just sick of all this.

This message is not directed to you, but at the ones responsible for this shameful situation. I sincerely apologize if you felt offended, it is not the point that I want to make.

 

[Sanchez]

Simple numbers to drive the point home. In the year of 2024, we currently only have 200 tanks (160 M60TM, 40 Leo2T1) that can hope to survive against any ATGM from the last 40 years on a frontal attack.

 

[Zafer]

We all know that the delays have nothing to do with Altay being a good tank or not. The design and everything else is already there for everybody to see. The problem is with establishing the manufacturing line in which serial production should start. While every year since the last decade we are talking about Altay serial production to start "next year" our soldiers are moving with M60A3s in Syria.

First it was that Otokar's offer was too expensive, then the German embargo, then it was the lack of national powerpack, then it is British powerpack, no wait... Lets try the Korean one, then there is no factory, then there is a factory, but almost ready, then there is factory, but.......

Altay is the biggest fiasco of the Turkish Defence Industry!

The upgrade programs for our older crap are the same way. There is an upgrade package, it is too expensive, lets put the best armor in the world, lets put another turret, lets put this, lets put that, active protection integration... almost, everything is almost ready, signing the contract, not exactly, almost signing it, signing it at last and then? The result is the same. A couple M60TMs for the cameras here and there and when HTS attack Azez we are showing force with two of these:

View attachment 64972

What happens after that? The result is below. The sons of three mothers burned like candles inside and a fourth that will have to live with the trauma of seeing all this. What would their mothers tell us after we told them the story of our failure in both Altay and the supposed upgrades?

How are we so relaxed while we are talking of conquering cities like Ain Al-Arab, Manbij, Hasakah, Tal Rifat? People are even talking about the liberation of Aleppo... How can we be so relaxed while a regional war is forming, the main fighting ground is in countries in which we have a double digit number of military bases and all of the actors in this scenario (for now) are responsible for bombing these exact bases directly or non-directly resulting in hundreds of martyrs and crippled?

View attachment 64974
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View attachment 64975

Instead of waiting or hoping, what about getting our shit together, upgrade at least all existing M60A3s in inventory and give the f*cking super-duper alien technology tank to someone who is actually capable of producing it? For example the only company that produced and delivered multiple tanks to its customer.

Yes their (FNSS) output may not be 100 units per month, but till 2073 they may deliver the first batch of 250 Altays which is actually pretty close to the timeframe in which BMCs serial production would just be about to be ready to almost start, but then the price and the lack of laser blaster APS and shiet... Haha, not haha!

I am sick of ultra-modern prototypes with sci-fi fire extinguishing systems, KBRN ventilation, low silhouette, front engine, back engine, super-duper Bor armor, unmanned turrets, integrated drones, alien APS technology, modular (a modern term), state of the art (even more modern term), "the best of the best in their class" tanks and armored vehicles being displayed at shows, fests, exhibitions while my soldiers are burning alive in M60s due to a team of goat scratchers with a total IQ of 13, firing a missile that they probably got in return for 10 cows and a 2000$ in cash, utilizing technology from the time of my father or even worse... A rocket sold for 150$ at the stand for female cosmetics in Raqqa utilizing technology from the time of my grandfather. I am just sick of all this.

This message is not directed to you, but at the ones responsible for this shameful situation. I sincerely apologize if you felt offended, it is not the point that I want to make.

We should not use tanks unless there is an all out war.

 

[Aqerdf]

There're three options for M60 i think:

-One is Altay
*Interim foreign engine has found okay nice. But BMC's new factory is not ready before 2026.

Other is TIYK-M60.

* MZK turret and additional reactiive armor is good. But it needs minimum 1000 hp engine now. Original M60 mobility was shit and TSK would want to change that i reckon. I remember the need for new engines for this upgrade. Which we couldn't find foreign alternative to this one too like 1500 hp situation.

There were talk about using old tech 1200hp AVDS engines both for TIYK-M60 and Fırtına-IIs. But it get cancelled or refused by us i think. Because of being old tech engine or simply AVDS get buyed by German firms.

Using UTKU or shrinked BATU is also mentioned but according to last BMC CEO, UTKU would be ready in 2026 and BATU would be in 2027. With this timeline, mentioned BMC solutions for TIYK-M60 upgrade is not possible in short-term.

-Another is Kaplan Medium Tank.

*With MZK or likes of MZK style new turret, it could be nice solution. But TSK don't want lighlty armored tanks, and they're right i think. Kaplan's turret is foreign, but we can come up with national solutions so that's not much of a problem anymore i think.


So there's two issues for us.One is turret and other is engine. Turret can be handled. Engine is tricky.

If we not add armor, finding 700+hp foreign engines (Scania etc.) or using national solutions (Ecotorq or updated Azra) is easier. But it will be somewhat same to M60 protection, (but with no cookoffs, better sit. awareness and APS)

But if we add armor, than we're in 1000 to 1300hp ballpark again, like TIYK-M60.

But it needs more armor. If we not add, passive protections would not be different from vanilla M60A3.

So yes, very much #@&+*/?! are comes from my end too, indeed...