Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Madokafc]

Personally I would just go all Rafale...

Defense World

View News at Defense World

www.defenseworld.net

Indonesia is close to an agreement to purchase 48 Rafale jets as part of a comprehensive defence cooperation deal with France.

Negotiations between France and Indonesia are progressing very well on the sale of 48 Rafale to the Indonesian Air Force, French publication; La Tribune reported quoting its sources.

During a visit to Paris on October 21, Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto reiterated his keen interest in the Dassault Aviation fighter plane.

“And the Indonesians would like to go very quickly and would even like an agreement before the end of the year, while the French negotiators would like to take a little time to complete an agreement in a meticulous manner,” the publication’s sources said.

The two countries have initiated a strategic dialogue this year with the objective of quickly signing a cooperation agreement in the field of defense.

Indonesia has recently turned down an offer from the US to buy F-16 jets after the US declined to sell it F-35 fighters. Besides, its deal to buy 12 Su-35 jets from France (edit: Russia) is in cold storage since 2018.

Dassault is on a roll with a recent order from Greece to buy Rafale jets and on-going contracts with India, Egypt and Qatar and might be ok to a parts-manufacturing eco-system which Indonesia is said to be proposing.

Talks of Indonesia wanting to buy Rafale jets, Gowind Corvettes and Scorpene submarines have been on since January this year when Defense Minister Subianto held a bilateral meeting with his French counterpart Florence Parly in Paris besides discussions with French defence firms such as Dassault Aviation, Thales, Naval Group and Nexter.

The Indonesian Embassy in Paris had put out a statement then on Subianto’s visit, "As a country with an advanced defense industry, France can be a strategic partner in Indonesia's efforts to modernize its weaponry defense system and accelerate the development of our national defense industry. This will support efforts to make the national defense industry a part of the 'global production chain'. In this context, our defense minister placed special attention on the development of the defense industry when discussing defense cooperation.”

Indonesia has made joint production a cornerstone of its defence procurement policy. In keeping with this policy it entered into a partnership with South Korea on the FF-X project. There are reports that Jakarta is less than happy with their progress in that project and might seek an exit.

Except Rafale tag price is quite a sum, but that's not the biggest issue here. Indonesia Air Force logistically much geared toward US ecosystem and in lesser extent Russian, introducing Rafale and Typhoon at the same time will be very taxing indeed.


--------------
Indonesia MoD is in technical detail stage with the Austrian about their Typhoon transfer deal.

 

[Umigami]

Except Rafale tag price is quite a sum, but that's not the biggest issue here. Indonesia Air Force logistically much geared toward US ecosystem and in lesser extent Russian, introducing Rafale and Typhoon at the same time will be very taxing indeed.


--------------
Indonesia MoD is in technical detail stage with the Austrian about their Typhoon transfer deal.

Which skadron will get Typhoon tranche 1?
If it's Skadron 14, I think it's safe to say we have to say goodbye to Su35.

 

[kooppyyy]

Except Rafale tag price is quite a sum, but that's not the biggest issue here. Indonesia Air Force logistically much geared toward US ecosystem and in lesser extent Russian, introducing Rafale and Typhoon at the same time will be very taxing indeed.


--------------
Indonesia MoD is in technical detail stage with the Austrian about their Typhoon transfer deal.

IF we go ahead acquired the Rafale by bulk (48 units of them) any chance to include an update on the weapon storage system to integrate it with the U.S made missiles? I know it's going to be an added cost, but it seems worth it for the long term.

You know when they declared the corruption case over Typhoon deal in the past is clear, the deal is almost being done already. The Austrian had cleared the legal obstacle from their side. Meanwhile for the agreement from the four countries member of Eurofighter consortium is already clear, as Germany actually the one who send their lobby and advisor toward Prabowo camp, Britain and Spain since long push forward Eurofighter to Indonesia and even send their pilot and mockup here, Italy is being no problemo as they are too benefitted from the deal and very eager to explore Indonesia defense market.

And now Prabowo had met with Germany ambassador and discussed a lot of thing, a lot of thing.

Any talk of an upgrade for EF if it goes through? OR are we acquiring these birds as is?

 

[Nilgiri]

Except Rafale tag price is quite a sum, but that's not the biggest issue here. Indonesia Air Force logistically much geared toward US ecosystem and in lesser extent Russian, introducing Rafale and Typhoon at the same time will be very taxing indeed.


--------------
Indonesia MoD is in technical detail stage with the Austrian about their Typhoon transfer deal.

Yeah I chatted with @#comcom @Chestnut @Azull and cpl others about this before.

I always suggested first thing F-16 V and then F-35 would be ideal given US ecosystem in TNI already.

But if you are going euro for whatever reason.....I dont think splitting among typhoon and rafale is good idea. Just pick one of those and commit.... and in that sense I would go all rafale if euro is the pick.

This help India a bit too (just to make my bias a bit more open) as it likely help reduce costs for India in a later acquisition of Rafales given economy of scale of one more order....and production line etc kept warm.

Frankly russian stuff should not even be considered at this point (by TNI for high value systems)....all of that has been gamed in extensively by PLAN and PLAAF. Mid and low tier stuff, russian is fine if the cost to benefit is reasonable.

Indonesia, like any country that wants to keep an edge close to chest in this region, has to acquire top-tier stuff China won't have access to itself (as far as possible)...so NATO stuff basically.

 

[Madokafc]

IF we go ahead acquired the Rafale by bulk (48 units of them) any chance to include an update on the weapon storage system to integrate it with the U.S made missiles? I know it's going to be an added cost, but it seems worth it for the long term.


Any talk of an upgrade for EF if it goes through? OR are we acquiring these birds as is?

My bet as it is for a while

Btw, according to Alman Indonesia is in search for loan to finance Poseidon P8 deal. This would be interesting as Indonesia Air Force will be in major rearmament program not seen since 80s decade

 

[Madokafc]

Yeah I chatted with @#comcom @Chestnut @Azull and cpl others about this before.

I always suggested first thing F-16 V and then F-35 would be ideal given US ecosystem in TNI already.

But if you are going euro for whatever reason.....I dont think splitting among typhoon and rafale is good idea. Just pick one of those and commit.... and in that sense I would go all rafale if euro is the pick.

This help India a bit too (just to make my bias a bit more open) as it likely help reduce costs for India in a later acquisition of Rafales given economy of scale of one more order....and production line etc kept warm.

Frankly russian stuff should not even be considered at this point (by TNI for high value systems)....all of that has been gamed in extensively by PLAN and PLAAF. Mid and low tier stuff, russian is fine if the cost to benefit is reasonable.

Indonesia, like any country that wants to keep an edge close to chest in this region, has to acquire top-tier stuff China won't have access to itself (as far as possible)...so NATO stuff basically.

Unfortunately, from many clues and insider info i can gather there and here Indonesia Air Force likely would induct Typhoon too, ex Austrian trance 1 exactly. This one would open the possibility for further acquisition of other Typhoon trance 1 likely would be retired like German and English samples as they are quite willing to dump those to Indonesia. This would Made up for the possible new squadrons in Kohanudnas (Air Defense Command) interception units. This would made up regular fighter free from interception and Air Defense task.

The Rafale would take the slot of the possible F16 V Indonesia Air Force had eyeing for long before Prabowo take the helm. As Rafale would perform and tasked within regular Air Force Command units.

The most possible scenario for the Flanker squadron we had in near future is to use them as pure Ground Attack and Maritime strike fighter.

 

[Umigami]

My bet as it is for a while

Btw, according to Alman Indonesia is in search for loan to finance Poseidon P8 deal. This would be interesting as Indonesia Air Force will be in major rearmament program not seen since 80s decade

I thought they are for Navy.

 

[Umigami]

Unfortunately, from many clues and insider info i can gather there and here Indonesia Air Force likely would induct Typhoon too, ex Austrian trance 1 exactly. This one would open the possibility for further acquisition of other Typhoon trance 1 likely would be retired like German and English samples as they are quite willing to dump those to Indonesia. This would Made up for the possible new squadrons in Kohanudnas (Air Defense Command) interception units. This would made up regular fighter free from interception and Air Defense task.

The Rafale would take the slot of the possible F16 V Indonesia Air Force had eyeing for long before Prabowo take the helm. As Rafale would perform and tasked within regular Air Force Command units.

The most possible scenario for the Flanker squadron we had in near future is to use them as pure Ground Attack and Maritime strike fighter.

So in a few decades, our inventory would be KFX, Typhoon, and Rafale?
I got mix feeling about this.

 

[Madokafc]

So in a few decades, our inventory would be KFX, Typhoon, and Rafale?
I got mix feeling about this.

Between gratefull or down

You know those are the best possible line up of many Seikh countries till F35 joint the game

 

[joedhie2k]

imagine the parade on 2024.. lead by KFX flying prototype.. then a flight of Typhoon + Sukhois.. full diamond formation by rafale and F-16.. followed by T-50

glorious

 

[Umigami]

A great line up but problematic at the same time.
The next question is what's their weaponry?
I mean it's okay, he can get all those European fighters that he love so much. But make sure to equip them with Hammer, Scalp, Meteor, irisT, Mica ng, etc !!!

 

[Madokafc]

A great line up but problematic at the same time.
The next question is what's their weaponry?
I mean it's okay, he can get all those European fighters that he love so much. But make sure to equip them with Hammer, Scalp, Meteor, irisT, Mica ng, etc !!!

Typhoon can use AMRAAM and Sidewinder easily, Paveway and Jdam with modification and Mk series dumb bombs as many of the user member heavily using US Made fighter too like Spain (F18), UK (F35), Italy (F35), Saudi (F15) and Kuwait (F18).

But Rafale is special af though

 

[joedhie2k]

until KFX sku operational the rafale might only get MICA, FFAR, and any dumb bomb from sari bahari

 

[Parry Brima]

Unfortunately, from many clues and insider info i can gather there and here Indonesia Air Force likely would induct Typhoon too, ex Austrian trance 1 exactly. This one would open the possibility for further acquisition of other Typhoon trance 1 likely would be retired like German and English samples as they are quite willing to dump those to Indonesia. This would Made up for the possible new squadrons in Kohanudnas (Air Defense Command) interception units. This would made up regular fighter free from interception and Air Defense task.

The Rafale would take the slot of the possible F16 V Indonesia Air Force had eyeing for long before Prabowo take the helm. As Rafale would perform and tasked within regular Air Force Command units.

The most possible scenario for the Flanker squadron we had in near future is to use them as pure Ground Attack and Maritime strike fighter.

One of the most intriguing part for me is that this setup will be exact carbon copy to our current setup. We now have new fleet (Sukhoi) and used fleet (F-16). By this we'll have new fleet (Rafale) and used fleet (EF) as well

I like the idea of having maritime strike fighter. Sukhoi (+ AShM Brahmos) would be nice.

imagine the parade on 2024.. lead by KFX flying prototype.. then a flight of Typhoon + Sukhois.. full diamond formation by rafale and F-16.. followed by T-50

glorious

The only country in the world who can maintain showroom air force. I can already tell the tagline the world press will use.

 

[Parry Brima]

A great line up but problematic at the same time.
The next question is what's their weaponry?
I mean it's okay, he can get all those European fighters that he love so much. But make sure to equip them with Hammer, Scalp, Meteor, irisT, Mica ng, etc !!!

I read somewhere that it's going to be MoD policy from now on to buy the complete package. I assume it applies for air force as well.

Don't worry about AIM-120 or AIM-9. We can still use them for Nasams.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Except Rafale tag price is quite a sum, but that's not the biggest issue here. Indonesia Air Force logistically much geared toward US ecosystem and in lesser extent Russian, introducing Rafale and Typhoon at the same time will be very taxing indeed.


--------------
Indonesia MoD is in technical detail stage with the Austrian about their Typhoon transfer deal.

That is the most worrisome aspect. How TF we're going to afford operating all those twin engine planes. Buying them is easy, all we need to do is taking more loan as usual.

I just hope MoD also intent to getting rid of the Sukhoi fleet with all these new fighter procurement. At least by getting rid of the Sukhoi fleet it would be easing operational budget

 

[R4duga]

That is the most worrisome aspect. How TF we're going to afford operating all those twin engine planes. Buying them is easy, all we need to do is taking more loan as usual.

I just hope MoD also intent to getting rid of the Sukhoi fleet with all these new fighter procurement. At least by getting rid of the Sukhoi fleet it would be easing operational budget

agree , if rafale goes through (im betting we got either 16 or 24 of them) , there's no point to keep the sukhoi , or just use them as an aggressor squadron for training purpose , that could also mean we are started to get serious on KF-X (since they use european weaponry).

 

[Umigami]

agree , if rafale goes through (im betting we got either 16 or 24 of them) , there's no point to keep the sukhoi , or just use them as an aggressor squadron for training purpose , that could also mean we are started to get serious on KF-X (since they use european weaponry).

36 unit.

La vente de Rafale à l'Indonésie "très bien avancée", dit Parly

La vente de Rafale à l'Indonésie "très bien avancée", dit Parly

www.challenges.fr

Original plan is 3 skadron ( 2 viper & 1 su35)
36 unit equal to 2 skadron.
I'm almost 100% sure one last remaining will be Typhoon.

Austrian doesn't have double seater typhoon, I hope German can provide them.

Edit: I just realized something, so our standard for a skadron is 18 fighters now, no longer 16?

 

[Soman45]

From this one is from France's MoD Florence Parly

Florence Parly: vers une commande de "36 Rafale" par l'Indonésie

Sur BFM Business, la ministre des Armées souligne que la signature de ce contrat "est très bien avancée".

www.bfmtv.com

she said the negotiation of 36 Rafale for Indonesia are"very well advanced"....so which one is true? 36 or 48? well for me let's put 36 just like she said....

 

[Umigami]

https://www.facebook.com/181276675314017/posts/3213511225423865