• Forum restore complete (see latest announcement thread)

TR Land Vehicle Programs

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
4,190
Reactions
127 19,047
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Is new Pars modular as Boxer?
Per the leaks from few months back, yes.

 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,804
Solutions
2
Reactions
148 26,907
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Bro, if you ask me, the Amphibious Group Command needs to be revised first. I mean, mostly about Amphibious Marine Brigade. It would be great if the Marines could create their own armored brigade. Then the preparation of the platforms to be acquired would be the easiest phase, given our current progress in land systems. As our force projection evolves dramatically from coast-to-coast to intercontinental capability, a detached division or corps of amphibious unit can play crucial roles in protecting these vision.
Why bother as long as the M48s are running?
Running as in, literally, just running, not finely but sufficiently.
 

dBSPL

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Ambassador
Messages
2,871
Reactions
123 14,520
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Why bother as long as the M48s are running?
Running as in, literally, just running, not finely but sufficiently.
Even the M48s are allocating from the inventory and personnel of the Land Forces? As long as an Armoured Amphibious Brigade is established I am OK with all M48s are given to the naval forces. I am sure that thanks to the naval forces, we will get rid of the M48s as soon as possible, and in the meantime, they will create a quantum leap in the middle class tanks that the ground forces have not taken a concrete step.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,804
Solutions
2
Reactions
148 26,907
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Even the M48s are allocating from the inventory and personnel of the Land Forces? As long as an Armoured Amphibious Brigade is established I am OK with all M48s are given to the naval forces. I am sure that thanks to the naval forces, we will get rid of the M48s as soon as possible, and in the meantime, they will create a quantum leap in the middle class tanks that the ground forces have not taken a concrete step.
Joking aside, I was intending to plot a scene similar to how AH-1s are transferred from land forces to amphibious group and oriented for naval use for preliminary capability gain, M48s could pose as how heavy armoured group might be the first step towards stronger amphibious forces.

If we are speaking of an AC, and a present LHD and enthusiastic power-projection from Libya to Somalia, that shall come with an amphibious force capable of deploying a miniature form of Land Forces.
 

boredaf

Experienced member
Messages
2,268
Solutions
1
Reactions
42 6,654
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
And here it is.

FNSS Pars Alpha with Teber 35 with 1x OMTAS ATGM on both sides of the turret!
Af7tJqm.jpeg


jESmiTN.jpeg


YYrKWnw.jpeg


cxGSXjH.jpeg


Damn, that is a sexy machine. I hope military will pick an IFV soon.
 

Dmr

Active member
Messages
142
Reactions
1 347
Nation of residence
Macedonia
Nation of origin
Bosnia & Herzegovina
Didn't some Turkish company start to produce a copy of a Bofors 40mm gun,last year?I was hoping we will see it on an armored vehicle,guess not yet.
 

Kartal1

Experienced member
Moderator
Messages
5,291
Reactions
114 19,734
Nation of residence
Bulgaria
Nation of origin
Turkey
Joking aside, I was intending to plot a scene similar to how AH-1s are transferred from land forces to amphibious group and oriented for naval use for preliminary capability gain, M48s could pose as how heavy armoured group might be the first step towards stronger amphibious forces.

If we are speaking of an AC, and a present LHD and enthusiastic power-projection from Libya to Somalia, that shall come with an amphibious force capable of deploying a miniature form of Land Forces.
I would even take it even further and say that in my opinion the premiere expeditionary land operations capable force of TSK should be the Amphibious Task Group Command.

The Land Forces are already tired and overstretched. There are people on duty which don't know what is a vacation due to the continuous deployments in Iraq, Syria and many more locations around the world.

In my opinion the Amphibious Task Group Command should undergo a vast restructuring, increase of the numbers of the Marine Brigade personnel and introducing a level of self sufficiency and independence vision which would allow introducing new capabilities like a dedicated armor fleet, dedicated utility and attack helicopter fleet, dedicated UCAV fleet and increase of SHORAD, anti-tank, artillery and engineering capabilities.

I would like to see the Navy in a leading role regarding our deployments oversea and I would like to see the Amphibious Task Group Command in a state where they have the capabilities to fulfil the tasks given by the Navy as a self sufficient ground force element capable enough to take the leading position in the command of our military installations and operations oversea within the Navy's strategic vision for Turkish domination and posturing.

Within this concept of mine and the harsh reality of our current armor fleet, no matter the branch, I think we urgently need modern land platforms.

As we see our companies have absolutely amazing designs in all weight and role categories.

As far as I remember the Marine Brigade is still using old M113s. We have Kaplan 10 and Kaplan 25 that can be configured in all kinds of configurations and they are a good alternative to the light M113s.


We have FNSS's Kaplan MT, we have Otokar's Tulpar in a light/medium tank configuration. Now we saw the latest addition to the collection of beauties NOT fielded by TSK in the face of Otokar's design including integrated 120mm turret etc. If we are going to introduce a tank fleet and overall increase of armored fire power of our Marines we would also need recovery vehicles which are going to recover our damaged armor to repair points. Again we have companies that can design the perfect product for us.

We as persons and also Turkiye as a State has very big vision for the development of the country on the geopolitical arena. In order to support this vision we need a deterrent military and slowly, but surely we are losing this deterrence in all aspects other than the Navy. As we are in the Land Vehicle Programs thread we can give a very big example for this sad fact with the lack of procurement and introduction of modern capabilities of our land capable components no matter if we talk about the Land Forces or the Marines.

Why am I so invested in this issue and why am I voicing my concerns wherever I get the chance regarding the state of the Amphibious Brigade? Because for me Navy means diplomacy, strategy, vision, wisdom, technical capability, power projection, posture and not only that. For me the Navy is the accumulation of knowledge and IQ that can break the chains of a country and this is a very valid point especially when it comes to Turkiye. Nobody should take me wrong, Land Forces and Air Forces have their importance, but their role compared to the Navy is slightly different in my understanding of these affairs. The seas are the doors to the world and the Navy will lead us trough these doors. I want our Navy strong and self sufficient as much as possible.
 

Ryder

Experienced member
Messages
11,418
Reactions
13 19,760
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Bmc, Fnss and Otokar have all really made good designs.

All have their pros and cons.

If I had to choose I would go with FNSS. FNSS has proven to the world how capable they are in building Ifvs and apcs.
 

uçuyorum

Contributor
Messages
1,225
Reactions
15 1,988
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Ground platforms are the ones I understand the least. Does anyone have a good video or analysis about current state? Also what's the current status on YN ZMA and Leo 2 modernization?
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
5,653
Reactions
15 8,712
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
They are probably waiting for very highly Turkish made and very matured platforms to appear before they go ahead and buy some. Also the wish list probably keeps changing and you need to catch a point where the decision you make today is a little more future proof and you won't regret it. What is important is that we have the capability to make them and can order some to be made both in peace time and in war time. If you can order them and they can be made 5 pieces a day why would you have to order now.
 

Khagan1923

Contributor
Messages
1,275
Reactions
25 5,392
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
FNSS is taking part in Saudi tender with Pars Alpha. The tender foresees the aquiring of 600 vehicles in the first phase up to +1500 vehicles.

-————

Man I’m not even not gonna say anything anymore. Other countries are buying our vehicles en mass and we still don’t have a 6x6 8x8 in our inventory yet the tender has been on going for over a decade now.

just a joke
 

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
4,190
Reactions
127 19,047
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Wait. . Where are the propellers? Not amphibious?
Nope.
FNSS is taking part in Saudi tender with Pars Alpha. The tender foresees the aquiring of 600 vehicles in the first phase up to +1500 vehicles.
This has to be the second project Otokar with Rabdan is also taking part in. FNSS and Otokar managed to be direct competitors again.
Here is Alpha's brochure and I know it is meant to be ad for the vehicle, but it really looks good. I love how modular it is, from 120mm gun to g2a missiles for aa missions to 2 120mm mortars it can be used for any mission.
Unlike the leak, no mention of removable mission modules tho :( And also no mention of a hybrid drivetrain or powerpack. Alpha looks to be built for Saudi needs directly, not as FNSS' next gen IFV.
 
Last edited:

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
4,190
Reactions
127 19,047
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Why does every tender for the Land Forces become a mystery?
ÖMTTZA(100 vehicles. 95 sensor, radar, CBRN and command vehicles, 5 IFVs for gendarme) was signed in Dec 2019 and had a project length of 36 months. All deliveries were to be completed from 24th to 36th months. At this point, no deliveries have been made and program is 2 years behind the schedule. Boys in the army are still using M113s for these roles and gendarme still don't have their IFVs.

Tümosan was to deliver the engines for these vehicles. As we haven't heard anything from their development in years, I think Tümosan engines are left behind and they will probably use BMC's Azra if and when it becomes ready. What a sham. For this exact point, unless deliveries are complete, we can never, evet trust a procurement to go through. Another lesson in bad project management.
 

Aqerdf

Active member
Messages
113
Reactions
5 270
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
EDR Magazine, my favorite together with Defence Turkey Magazine:


Hybrid ready, more agile compared to others, has more protection but with same 34-35t weight, and it's gross weight is scalable over 40 tonnes.
 
Last edited:

Follow us on social media

Latest posts

Top Bottom