TR Land Vehicle Programs

Sanchez

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Oh look.... The percentage of made in Türkiye? 3-4 % is my guess and I am sure it's quite cheap (not!)
And before the Otokar chill come wining, for export, quite good vehicle but for TSK, never ever.... Which imho is good thing
Do we have figures to compare vs others? I don't think we do.
 

dBSPL

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Turkish Marines are probably drooling right now.

I wonder can Otokar also be able to integrate this turret to Arma 2 as well. It looks beefy enough.(Arma 2)
Bro, if you ask me, the Amphibious Group Command needs to be revised first. I mean, mostly about Amphibious Marine Brigade. It would be great if the Marines could create their own armored brigade. Then the preparation of the platforms to be acquired would be the easiest phase, given our current progress in land systems. As our force projection evolves dramatically from coast-to-coast to intercontinental capability, a detached division or corps of amphibious unit can play crucial roles in protecting these vision.
 

Sanchez

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Bro, if you ask me, the Amphibious Group Command needs to be revised first. I mean, mostly about Amphibious Marine Brigade. It would be great if the Marines could create their own armored brigade. Then the preparation of the platforms to be acquired would be the easiest phase, given our current progress in land systems. As our force projection evolves dramatically from coast-to-coast to intercontinental capability, a detached division or corps of amphibious unit can play crucial roles in protecting these vision.
Even if we did none of that, size of the brigade needs to be increased. We used to have 4 LSTs and 30 landing ships. We now have an LHD that can carry a full battalion and all of its support group itself. Only 27 MAVs for marines is a crime.
 

UkroTurk

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I am hundred percent sure , Turkish Land Forces wouldn't procure 105mm cal since the gun is rifled which causes troubles in the dirty battlefield. They would go for smooth bore 120mm if they wanted Medium weight tanks.

On the other hand,
İf there were a demand from Turkish Army, Otokar could easily copy the turret as they did with the German 30mm turret.
 

dBSPL

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Even if we did none of that, size of the brigade needs to be increased. We used to have 4 LSTs and 30 landing ships. We now have an LHD that can carry a full battalion and all of its support group itself. Only 27 MAVs for marines is a crime.
In addition, 1 more LHD coming, while the old landing crafts built in Taşkızak and Gölcük will probably be replaced with higher capacity, 151 class derivative LCTs. This will be followed by the continuation of the Bayraktar class LSTs. So, it will not be a big deal for the navy to move almost a division sized units from one site to another with one go.

This is actually a very serious force multiplier, but it is possible to strengthen it even more by redesigning the organization within the force command. Maybe not an independent command like the USAF Marine Corps, but whether we need to think an amphibious naval force capable of independently conducting any operation on its own, I mean at least division size, I think that should be one of the more frequently discussed topics among defense enthusiasts and intellectuals. This force structure could have an important peace time functions, especially in undertaking overseas missions. I don't mean that we should build an army and let it laid in Foça.

In the past, foreign dependence on almost all armored vehicles, engineering and air defense systems, starting with battle tanks, was at a critical level. There is no such prohibitive situation now. In short, I am of the opinion that it is a necessity for the naval forces to have their own armored units, not only in terms of national security and Turkish interests, but also in terms of further developing our industrial capabilities. I can bet with anyone that if the Turkish naval forces were to have such a structure, all the systems developed to equip this military units would sell like hot cakes in the foreign market.
 
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Kartal1

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Bro, if you ask me, the Amphibious Group Command needs to be revised first. I mean, mostly about Amphibious Marine Brigade. It would be great if the Marines could create their own armored brigade. Then the preparation of the platforms to be acquired would be the easiest phase, given our current progress in land systems. As our force projection evolves dramatically from coast-to-coast to intercontinental capability, a detached division or corps of amphibious unit can play crucial roles in protecting these vision.
And if you ask me, not only the Amphibious Group Command needs to be revised, but also the Land Forces Command needs restructuring. While we talk about these two there are also other structures within TSK that needs revising in order to work in the best way possible.

The structure of TSK needs "modernizing" to meet the requirements of the new concepts, doctrines and capabilities that are introduced.
 

Sanchez

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New Pars Alpha 8x8(I think it's the Pars X from few months back) is to be officially unveiled next month at WDS Riyadh 2024.


Direct competitor to Boxer incoming?
2DRjk7P.jpeg
And here it is.

FNSS Pars Alpha with Teber 35 with 1x OMTAS ATGM on both sides of the turret!
Af7tJqm.jpeg


jESmiTN.jpeg


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cxGSXjH.jpeg


 

Sanchez

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Is new Pars modular as Boxer?
Per the leaks from few months back, yes.

 

Anmdt

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Bro, if you ask me, the Amphibious Group Command needs to be revised first. I mean, mostly about Amphibious Marine Brigade. It would be great if the Marines could create their own armored brigade. Then the preparation of the platforms to be acquired would be the easiest phase, given our current progress in land systems. As our force projection evolves dramatically from coast-to-coast to intercontinental capability, a detached division or corps of amphibious unit can play crucial roles in protecting these vision.
Why bother as long as the M48s are running?
Running as in, literally, just running, not finely but sufficiently.
 

dBSPL

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Why bother as long as the M48s are running?
Running as in, literally, just running, not finely but sufficiently.
Even the M48s are allocating from the inventory and personnel of the Land Forces? As long as an Armoured Amphibious Brigade is established I am OK with all M48s are given to the naval forces. I am sure that thanks to the naval forces, we will get rid of the M48s as soon as possible, and in the meantime, they will create a quantum leap in the middle class tanks that the ground forces have not taken a concrete step.
 

Anmdt

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Even the M48s are allocating from the inventory and personnel of the Land Forces? As long as an Armoured Amphibious Brigade is established I am OK with all M48s are given to the naval forces. I am sure that thanks to the naval forces, we will get rid of the M48s as soon as possible, and in the meantime, they will create a quantum leap in the middle class tanks that the ground forces have not taken a concrete step.
Joking aside, I was intending to plot a scene similar to how AH-1s are transferred from land forces to amphibious group and oriented for naval use for preliminary capability gain, M48s could pose as how heavy armoured group might be the first step towards stronger amphibious forces.

If we are speaking of an AC, and a present LHD and enthusiastic power-projection from Libya to Somalia, that shall come with an amphibious force capable of deploying a miniature form of Land Forces.
 

Dmr

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Didn't some Turkish company start to produce a copy of a Bofors 40mm gun,last year?I was hoping we will see it on an armored vehicle,guess not yet.
 

Kartal1

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Joking aside, I was intending to plot a scene similar to how AH-1s are transferred from land forces to amphibious group and oriented for naval use for preliminary capability gain, M48s could pose as how heavy armoured group might be the first step towards stronger amphibious forces.

If we are speaking of an AC, and a present LHD and enthusiastic power-projection from Libya to Somalia, that shall come with an amphibious force capable of deploying a miniature form of Land Forces.
I would even take it even further and say that in my opinion the premiere expeditionary land operations capable force of TSK should be the Amphibious Task Group Command.

The Land Forces are already tired and overstretched. There are people on duty which don't know what is a vacation due to the continuous deployments in Iraq, Syria and many more locations around the world.

In my opinion the Amphibious Task Group Command should undergo a vast restructuring, increase of the numbers of the Marine Brigade personnel and introducing a level of self sufficiency and independence vision which would allow introducing new capabilities like a dedicated armor fleet, dedicated utility and attack helicopter fleet, dedicated UCAV fleet and increase of SHORAD, anti-tank, artillery and engineering capabilities.

I would like to see the Navy in a leading role regarding our deployments oversea and I would like to see the Amphibious Task Group Command in a state where they have the capabilities to fulfil the tasks given by the Navy as a self sufficient ground force element capable enough to take the leading position in the command of our military installations and operations oversea within the Navy's strategic vision for Turkish domination and posturing.

Within this concept of mine and the harsh reality of our current armor fleet, no matter the branch, I think we urgently need modern land platforms.

As we see our companies have absolutely amazing designs in all weight and role categories.

As far as I remember the Marine Brigade is still using old M113s. We have Kaplan 10 and Kaplan 25 that can be configured in all kinds of configurations and they are a good alternative to the light M113s.


We have FNSS's Kaplan MT, we have Otokar's Tulpar in a light/medium tank configuration. Now we saw the latest addition to the collection of beauties NOT fielded by TSK in the face of Otokar's design including integrated 120mm turret etc. If we are going to introduce a tank fleet and overall increase of armored fire power of our Marines we would also need recovery vehicles which are going to recover our damaged armor to repair points. Again we have companies that can design the perfect product for us.

We as persons and also Turkiye as a State has very big vision for the development of the country on the geopolitical arena. In order to support this vision we need a deterrent military and slowly, but surely we are losing this deterrence in all aspects other than the Navy. As we are in the Land Vehicle Programs thread we can give a very big example for this sad fact with the lack of procurement and introduction of modern capabilities of our land capable components no matter if we talk about the Land Forces or the Marines.

Why am I so invested in this issue and why am I voicing my concerns wherever I get the chance regarding the state of the Amphibious Brigade? Because for me Navy means diplomacy, strategy, vision, wisdom, technical capability, power projection, posture and not only that. For me the Navy is the accumulation of knowledge and IQ that can break the chains of a country and this is a very valid point especially when it comes to Turkiye. Nobody should take me wrong, Land Forces and Air Forces have their importance, but their role compared to the Navy is slightly different in my understanding of these affairs. The seas are the doors to the world and the Navy will lead us trough these doors. I want our Navy strong and self sufficient as much as possible.
 

Ryder

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Bmc, Fnss and Otokar have all really made good designs.

All have their pros and cons.

If I had to choose I would go with FNSS. FNSS has proven to the world how capable they are in building Ifvs and apcs.
 

uçuyorum

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Ground platforms are the ones I understand the least. Does anyone have a good video or analysis about current state? Also what's the current status on YN ZMA and Leo 2 modernization?
 

Zafer

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They are probably waiting for very highly Turkish made and very matured platforms to appear before they go ahead and buy some. Also the wish list probably keeps changing and you need to catch a point where the decision you make today is a little more future proof and you won't regret it. What is important is that we have the capability to make them and can order some to be made both in peace time and in war time. If you can order them and they can be made 5 pieces a day why would you have to order now.
 

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