TR Attack & Utility Helicopter Programs

[Sanchez]

Phase-I T-129 were also supposed to be gradually upgraded to Phase-II. To My knowledge that has not happened either.

Curious to see what the Land Forces plan is after T-929 being delayed/frozen for the time being.

I think they're still betting on T629 to come online. Phase 1 T129Bs are good enough for the role and we have plenty for COIN. I think they fall on the middle ground in the wall of importance. And as TAI have customers for the platform, there's no urgency there as well. I think they'll eventually bring all to Phase 2 standard though.

 

[dBSPL]

TAI shared this poster on social media with the following note:


"We proudly delivered Turkiye's first indigenous and national helicopter, the T625 GÖKBEY, to the Gendarmerie General Command. Displaying outstanding success in critical missions such as air ambulance, search and rescue and offshore missions, T625 GÖKBEY is now at the disposal of our gendarmerie for the security of our homeland."

Military cofiguration:
-Transport (Passenger/Cargo/VIP/Command and control) /// -Casualty Evacuation (CASEVAC/MEDEVAC) /// -Reconnaissance/Surveillance /// -Search and Rescue /// -Pilot Training

Civil Configuration:
-Transport (Passenger/Cargo/VIP) /// -Offshore transportation /// -Security /// -Air ambulance /// -Search and rescue

General Specifications:
-2+12/14 seat cabin / 2+5 VIP /// -Folding landing gear /// -Modern avionics /// -Four-axis autopilot /// -Operationality with Military Mission Equipments

Technical specifications:
-Length: 15.87m /// -Main rotor diameter: 13,2m /// -Standard fuel capacity: 1020kg /// -Maximum Lifting Weight: 6050kg /// -Service ceiling 20000ft
-Cargo volume 1.1m3 /// VNE 165kts /// -Maximum range 400nm/740km (950km with external fuel tank) /// -Time in the air: 3.8 hours

 

[Huelague]

MMW Radar to my knowledge was not taken into consideration as the fuselage was already at its limits. And we haven’t heard much about Meteksans MILDAR for I believe a couple years now.

What about the top, like most helicopters has its radar.

 

[boredaf]

And we haven’t heard much about Meteksans MILDAR for I believe a couple years now.

Last time MILDAR was mentioned was this year actually, but no idea what happened after this ceremony.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1747709633282687113

 

[Sanchez]

What about the top, like most helicopters has its radar.

Putting the MWR radar there requires a complete modification of the rotor assembly, would basically create a new helicopter. Housing for the Longbow passes through the shaft.

 

[Fatman17]

 

[somegoodusername]

So, what are the helicopters that are confirmed to be produced in the near future? From my knowledge, sorted by priority:

T-925 – 10-ton utility helicopter
T-929 – 10-ton attack helicopter
T-629 – Medium-weight attack helicopter


Do we have other helicopter projects? Do we have an engine project for 10-ton helicopters?

 

[uçuyorum]

Good thing we have AH1W. The rest are likely doing training or hopefully some modernization. We had seen cirit integrated. 2 on board, 1 working on integration, 2-3 for training, 2 backup and 1-2 maintenance etc. I think its supposed to be 6 on board normally. Hope we get more stuff for it soon.

 

[dBSPL]

So, what are the helicopters that are confirmed to be produced in the near future? From my knowledge, sorted by priority:

T-925 – 10-ton utility helicopter
T-929 – 10-ton attack helicopter
T-629 – Medium-weight attack helicopter


Do we have other helicopter projects? Do we have an engine project for 10-ton helicopters?

Except for some conceptual demonstrations (one of which have created serious debates in the past as to how feasible is) and some classes that the former head of the institution mentioned but we have not even seen concepts of them, so we cannot count them. So we have 3 programs that are concrete, but as you know there is no simultaneous progress. Right now the priority is all on 625.

To summarize briefly for those who follow the forum from outside, the 629 was originally an attack helicopter with an ITAR-free approach that would use the common infrastructure with the Gökbey to a large extent, this issue was seriously at the forefront of the agenda around 2021-22 due to the blockage of helicopter exports to Pakistan, but I think it is not a priority now. More precisely, all such indigenous developments are locked on the TS-1400, it is very difficult to see concrete progress without the indigenous engine being ready.

 

[Saithan]

Just put of curiosity, but since Gökbey has been turned over to Gendarmerie does that mean we can produce for domestic Military use. Does that cover TCG, Police as well ?

If the delivery had happened to a civilian institution would that mean it had passed all necessary certification for civilian use.

I assume it's using foreign engine LTECH, but when will we use domestic engine ?

If it uses domestic engine then delivery to Gendarmerie would mean we could export to all who were interested in it. When can we expect foreign orders of Gökbey.

If using foreign wngine. Are we going to attempt export with foreign engine, but the rest being domestic stuff to prove ourselves to Export markets and later on swap to domestic engine when export hindrance appear ?

 

[somegoodusername]

You can sell it to everyone who agrees to ride it with no civilian flight certificate.

 

[Ripley]

Just put of curiosity, but since Gökbey has been turned over to Gendarmerie does that mean we can produce for domestic Military use. Does that cover TCG, Police as well ?

If the delivery had happened to a civilian institution would that mean it had passed all necessary certification for civilian use.

I assume it's using foreign engine LTECH, but when will we use domestic engine ?

If it uses domestic engine then delivery to Gendarmerie would mean we could export to all who were interested in it. When can we expect foreign orders of Gökbey.

If using foreign wngine. Are we going to attempt export with foreign engine, but the rest being domestic stuff to prove ourselves to Export markets and later on swap to domestic engine when export hindrance appear ?

At this moment, yes, we can manufacture Gökbey for our national military needs. In fact, there’s already an order of 20 to be shared between Army, TurAF, Coast Guard and further 57 to replace old pat pats (all Huey variants) in military service.

They’re still working on the civilian certificate to my knowledge and have been hearing this for the last five years, I believe. So, I guess we’ll wait and see.

foreign customers, I am hearing everywhere that there are three “customers“ who TUSAŞ are at final phase of signing the deals with LHTEC T800 obviously which brings us to the $64 question you and everyone else is asking, when and where is domestic engine?

 

[I_Love_F16]

At this moment, yes, we can manufacture Gökbey for our national military needs. In fact, there’s already an order of 20 to be shared between Army, TurAF, Coast Guard and further 57 to replace old pat pats (all Huey variants) in military service.

They’re still working on the civilian certificate to my knowledge and have been hearing this for the last five years, I believe. So, I guess we’ll wait and see.

foreign customers, I am hearing everywhere that there are three “customers“ who TUSAŞ are at final phase of signing the deals with LHTEC T800 obviously which brings us to the $64 question you and everyone else is asking, when and where is domestic engine?

Then why aren't we using the TS-1400 already ? I mean only for military purposes, until we obtain the appropriate certification for civilian uses ?

Just put of curiosity, but since Gökbey has been turned over to Gendarmerie does that mean we can produce for domestic Military use. Does that cover TCG, Police as well ?

Police and gendarmerie are attached to the Ministry of Interior, so they are not related to military institutions. Gendarmerie used to be a part of the military branch, but that changed a few years ago. Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Saithan]

But their capabilities hasn't changed. Moving them from one place to another can't possible be reason to change a classification.

 

[Ripley]

Then why aren't we using the TS-1400 already ? I mean only for military purposes, until we obtain the appropriate certification for civilian uses ?

I remember Mr. Akşit telling that they were starting the mass production late 2023 and than heard everywhere that first batch would be available a year later (or maybe more. Can’t remember exact time frame, tbh).
Yeah, when you think about these statements, everything seems to be in order but I’m not expert like many others here. So, you may not want to quote me on these.

 

[Ripley]

But their capabilities hasn't changed. Moving them from one place to another can't possible be reason to change a classification.

Are you referring to civilian certification?

 

[Ripley]

@Saithan @I_Love_F16

Tolga Özbek gave a quiet detailed info on Gökbey including orders, users, delivery timetable and TS1400 in this video.

 

[boredaf]

I love how military tactics and doctrines evolve with technology. After seeing videos of Russians and Ukrainians using air to air missiles from helicopters to destroy drones, now Royal Navy used two different air to surface missiles to target drones. Helicopters might just go from recon/light attack or anti-tank to anti-drone missions pretty quick.

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news/2024/november/02/20241102-martlet-air-to-air

Thanks to two new missile systems – Martlet, which has been in service since 2021, and Sea Venom, successfully tested earlier this autumn – it can also take out hostile ships.

Martlet in particular is designed to foil enemy fast attack craft/speedboats – but experts also spotted its air-to-air potential.

That’s now been realised at the Manorbier range, near Tenby, in Southwest Wales – the first time the Wildcat has detected, tracked, and engaged a drone without outside assistance.

@UkroTurk you would love this mate.

 

[guest12]

I love how military tactics and doctrines evolve with technology. After seeing videos of Russians and Ukrainians using air to air missiles from helicopters to destroy drones, now Royal Navy used two different air to surface missiles to target drones. Helicopters might just go from recon/light attack or anti-tank to anti-drone missions pretty quick.

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news/2024/november/02/20241102-martlet-air-to-air

@UkroTurk you would love this mate.

Risking life of two pilots just shot down enemy UVAs dont make sense.Turbojet powered UCAVs like Bayraktar KE would be better suited for this role.

 

[Ripley]

In this interview, Kozan Erkan remembers that years ago during a conference he had heard from the head of Helicopter Design Group stating that the work for navalized Gökbey design was in the work already.

As for the moment it’s been announced that 57 navalized Gokbey will be acquired for the TN.