TR Attack & Utility Helicopter Programs

[Sanchez]

Demiroğlu, who provided information about the delivery program of Turkey's first indigenous helicopter, GÖKBEY, recalled that GÖKBEY performed its "Victory Flight" on August 30. He stated, "We had actually planned our delivery for that time, but due to some delays in tests, we hope to complete our tests and make our deliveries within October. The delays were related to the documentation work for the tests, specifically the certification processes. We expect to see that delivery sometime this month, possibly on October 29 or even earlier."

GÖKBEY helikopteri ilk teslimata gün sayıyor

Ekonomi - TUSAŞ Genel Müdürü Mehmet Demiroğlu, yerli imkanlarla geliştirilip üretilen genel maksat helikopteri T625 GÖKBEY'in ilk teslimatına ilişkin, "O teslimatı, bu ay içinde, belki 29 Ekim'de veya daha önce göreceğiz" dedi.

ekonomi.haber7.com

Tracks with Sünnetçi's article from august.

The official acceptance of the first 3 T625J GÖKBEY Light Utility Helicopters, which are produced in Military Configuration for the Gendarmerie Aviation Command and defined as Early Entry Helicopters (EDH), is targeted to be completed in the last quarter of 2024 (if there is no setback, the acceptance ceremony is expected to be held on October 29, 2024).

 

[begturan]

Don't know about 625 but 2 army T129s did a small show.

Per Tolga Özbek, T929 was never supposed to go to Adana and the prototype is currently in Ankara. Looks like a fuckup by the festival's marketing and social media teams.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1841781784591139116

They understood the sentence "2 atak helicopters will come" as "Atak2 will come" ya dreams Atak2 but realities Atak ahah

 

[Strong AI]

Sunar Oktay Appointed as Deputy General Manager of TUSAŞ Helicopter Programs

After Dr. Mehmet Demiroğlu was appointed as the General Manager at TUSAŞ, the position of Deputy General Manager responsible for Helicopter Programs had been vacant for some time. Sunar Oktay, who has been with TUSAŞ for 17 years, has been appointed to this role. Oktay has been recognized by the public as the "lieutenant who changed the Attack Helicopter Project."

Previously serving as Program Director at TUSAŞ, Oktay will be responsible for all rotary-wing projects, including TUSAŞ’s T129 ATAK, T625 GÖKBEY, T-70, T929 ATAK2, and T925 10-ton general-purpose helicopters.

Sunar Oktay served as a helicopter pilot in the Turkish Land Forces for many years and, even as a lieutenant, communicated a critical point regarding the ATAK Project to his commanders, emphasizing the importance of domestic systems and laying a foundational stone for the establishment of helicopter infrastructure in Turkey.

How It Happened

We reported those days as follows:

"Turkey is in intense negotiations to acquire the AH-1Z King Cobra helicopter from Bell. U.S. officials are unyielding. One day, a lieutenant helicopter pilot comes to the commander involved in the negotiations. 'Commander, we need to develop the mission computer for these helicopters,' he says.

With that lieutenant’s initiative, Turkey moves forward with the 'national mission computer' project. Lieutenant Sunar Oktay later retires with the rank of major and has been working at Turkish Aerospace Industries since then.

Embargoes Documented

One of the biggest challenges facing the Turkish defense industry recently has been the embargoes imposed either secretly or openly. For example, the U.S. implements CAATSA, but a European company can also publicly state, "We are not supplying X materials to Turkey due to CAATSA."

To document these events and pass them on to future generations, STM took a significant step. Turkey’s first technology-focused think tank, STM ThinkTech, published a book titled “The Rise of the Turkish Defense Industry and Embargoes / Localization and Nationalization Efforts in Critical Technology, Components, and Subsystems.”

The book features insights from 23 experts in the field and discusses the steps taken by the Turkish defense industry in response to embargoes, successes achieved through local and national technology initiatives, and the future of the defense industry.

TUSAŞ Helikopter Programları Genel Müdür Yardımcısı Sunar Oktay oldu - Tolga Özbek

TUSAŞ'ta Genel Müdürlüğe atanan Dr. Mehmet Demiroğlu'ndan sonra bir süredir Helikopter Programlarından Sorumlu Genel Müdür Yardımcılığı makamı boştu. Bu

tolgaozbek.com

 

[Sanchez]

Turkey’s first technology-focused think tank, STM ThinkTech, published a book titled “The Rise of the Turkish Defense Industry and Embargoes / Localization and Nationalization Efforts in Critical Technology, Components, and Subsystems.”

It was published in 2021.

https://thinktech.stm.com.tr/uploads//docs/1640258154_turksavunmasanayiininyukselisi.pdf?

 

[Sanchez]

World won't wait for us while we try to handle our stuff.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1847973433109614751

 

[Yasar_TR]

World won't wait for us while we try to handle our stuff.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1847973433109614751

Not much of a competitor to be honest.

Fenestron rotors are quiet and safer but…..

• Greater weight, therefore greater power requirement and more air resistance brought by the enclosed structure
• Higher cost to construct.
• More power is needed during the hover phase
• In short less efficient as a killing machine.

It has 2 x French 1030HP power units. MTOW is 4900kg.

 

[Sanchez]

Not much of a competitor to be honest.

I think you'll agree with me in saying a Malaysia that have LAH will be less likely to procure an armed T625 and will be more likely to procure the future LUH and Surion over T625 and T925.

 

[Strong AI]

via SavunmaSanayiST

Our First National Utility Helicopter T625, developed by TUSAŞ
#GÖKBEY will be included in the inventory of our security forces at a ceremony held today.

 

[Sanchez]

Looks like you guys waited for me to deliver the news!

Finally after years of delay, first T625 was officially, fully delivered to gendarme.

4 prototypes completed 1500 flight hours of tests to date.

Starting from 2025, "two additional GÖKBEYs will be delivered to the Gendarmerie, seven to the Land Forces, four to the Air Force, three to the Police Force and three to the Coast Guard, bringing the total number of deliveries to 20. On the other hand, 3 GÖKBEY Air Ambulances will be delivered to the Ministry of Health in 2026."
This first phase of 23 helicopters will be completed in 2026, so almost one a month. We know 3 T625s are already built and were tested but only one was delivered today, and per SSist other two will be delivered in 2025. I wonder what's the reason for that calendar.

"TAI continues its efforts to reach a production capacity of four GÖKBEYs per month. GÖKBEY is expected to be delivered with indigenous engines by 2027."

GÖKBEY helikopteri Jandarma envanterinde: Bir ilk

TUSAŞ, ilk GÖKBEY Genel Maksat Helikopteri’ni Jandarma Genel Komutanlığı’na teslim etti. Düzenlenen törene, Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan da katıldı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

As mentioned by SSist, no local engine deliveries will be made for the first phase and TS1400 will apparently continue its tests. "T625 with local engines are expected after 2028..."

What's most surprising was this for me however. I wonder if it was a gaffe by Erdoğan. "Plans are underway for the serial production of an additional 57 GÖKBEY helicopters for the needs of the Turkish Naval Forces Command." Should we expect a navalized ASW specialized T625? I wish!

Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan: Savunma sanayisinde tam bağımsız Türkiye hayalimizi gerçeğe dönüştürünceye kadar durmak yok

Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan, "Savunma sanayisinde tam bağımsız Türkiye hayalimizi gerçeğe dönüştürünceye kadar bize durmak, dinlenmek, nefeslenmek yok." dedi. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

 

[hugh]

"TAI continues its efforts to reach a production capacity of four GÖKBEYs per month. GÖKBEY is expected to be delivered with indigenous engines by 2027."

10 years from project's start to first delivery. Not bad considering it's our first turbine engine. Hopefully TF6000 will take less.

 

[Sanchez]

You are the most beautiful thing in the world.

Designed, developed and built in Turkey.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1851343135210930580

 

[dBSPL]

Looks like you guys waited for me to deliver the news!

Finally after years of delay, first T625 was officially, fully delivered to gendarme.

4 prototypes completed 1500 flight hours of tests to date.

Starting from 2025, "two additional GÖKBEYs will be delivered to the Gendarmerie, seven to the Land Forces, four to the Air Force, three to the Police Force and three to the Coast Guard, bringing the total number of deliveries to 20. On the other hand, 3 GÖKBEY Air Ambulances will be delivered to the Ministry of Health in 2026."
This first phase of 23 helicopters will be completed in 2026, so almost one a month. We know 3 T625s are already built and were tested but only one was delivered today, and per SSist other two will be delivered in 2025. I wonder what's the reason for that calendar.

"TAI continues its efforts to reach a production capacity of four GÖKBEYs per month. GÖKBEY is expected to be delivered with indigenous engines by 2027."

GÖKBEY helikopteri Jandarma envanterinde: Bir ilk

TUSAŞ, ilk GÖKBEY Genel Maksat Helikopteri’ni Jandarma Genel Komutanlığı’na teslim etti. Düzenlenen törene, Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan da katıldı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

As mentioned by SSist, no local engine deliveries will be made for the first phase and TS1400 will apparently continue its tests. "T625 with local engines are expected after 2028..."

What's most surprising was this for me however. I wonder if it was a gaffe by Erdoğan. "Plans are underway for the serial production of an additional 57 GÖKBEY helicopters for the needs of the Turkish Naval Forces Command." Should we expect a navalized ASW specialized T625? I wish!

Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan: Savunma sanayisinde tam bağımsız Türkiye hayalimizi gerçeğe dönüştürünceye kadar durmak yok

Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan, "Savunma sanayisinde tam bağımsız Türkiye hayalimizi gerçeğe dönüştürünceye kadar bize durmak, dinlenmek, nefeslenmek yok." dedi. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

It would have been a mistake not to produce an AW159 equivalent helicopter at home when the Navy's need for helicopters was so acute and the production line for the T-625 was already set up. An AW159 equivalent helicopter may not provide maximum capability, but it can fill the urgent gap until the heavy class navy helicopter arrives, which can be developed as a battlefield utility helicopter and a wide range of system integration can be attempted.

If the production target of 4 helicopters per month can be reached at the beginning of 2026, this means that around 200 helicopters will be produced before 2030, which roughly corresponds to the replacement of at least +150 UH-1/204/205/212(which are counting the days for retirement in different force commands including gendarmerie), and the additional purchases of the ministries of forestry and health etc. In 2027, the indigenously designed engine will arrive, and if the work has already started, maybe we will see a Wildcat equivalent Denizbey around 2028-2029.

 

[what]

Any information on the costs per unit and how it compares to competition?

 

[Sanchez]

It would have been a mistake not to produce an AW159 equivalent helicopter at home when the Navy's need for helicopters was so acute and the production line for the T-625 was already set up. An AW159 equivalent helicopter may not provide maximum capability, but it can fill the urgent gap until the heavy class navy helicopter arrives, which can be developed as a battlefield utility helicopter and a wide range of system integration can be attempted.

If the production target of 4 helicopters per month can be reached at the beginning of 2026, this means that around 200 helicopters will be produced before 2030, which roughly corresponds to the replacement of at least +150 UH-1/204/205/212(which are counting the days for retirement in different force commands including gendarmerie), and the additional purchases of the ministries of forestry and health etc. In 2027, the indigenously designed engine will arrive, and if the work has already started, maybe we will see a Wildcat equivalent Denizbey around 2028-2029.

With the mentioning of EDH last month, I don't think we should expect that full production rate until after TS1400 is ready for serial production. Those numbers will be achieved only after it is genuinely ready for full use, so still after 2028. This is not great, it is still very slow and I fear is a shape of things to come in other projects as well, but today was still a good day.

 

[chngr]

If the production target of 4 helicopters per month can be reached at the beginning of 2026, this means that around 200 helicopters will be produced before 2030, which roughly corresponds to the replacement of at least +150 UH-1/204/205/212(which are counting the days for retirement in different force commands including gendarmerie), and the additional purchases of the ministries of forestry and health etc. In 2027, the indigenously designed engine will arrive, and if the work has already started, maybe we will see a Wildcat equivalent Denizbey around 2028-2029.

So what will you do after 2030? going to close the plant?

Is it not true that fast production is not always a good thing?

 

[Anmdt]

Looks like you guys waited for me to deliver the news!

Finally after years of delay, first T625 was officially, fully delivered to gendarme.

4 prototypes completed 1500 flight hours of tests to date.

Starting from 2025, "two additional GÖKBEYs will be delivered to the Gendarmerie, seven to the Land Forces, four to the Air Force, three to the Police Force and three to the Coast Guard, bringing the total number of deliveries to 20. On the other hand, 3 GÖKBEY Air Ambulances will be delivered to the Ministry of Health in 2026."
This first phase of 23 helicopters will be completed in 2026, so almost one a month. We know 3 T625s are already built and were tested but only one was delivered today, and per SSist other two will be delivered in 2025. I wonder what's the reason for that calendar.

"TAI continues its efforts to reach a production capacity of four GÖKBEYs per month. GÖKBEY is expected to be delivered with indigenous engines by 2027."

GÖKBEY helikopteri Jandarma envanterinde: Bir ilk

TUSAŞ, ilk GÖKBEY Genel Maksat Helikopteri’ni Jandarma Genel Komutanlığı’na teslim etti. Düzenlenen törene, Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan da katıldı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

As mentioned by SSist, no local engine deliveries will be made for the first phase and TS1400 will apparently continue its tests. "T625 with local engines are expected after 2028..."

What's most surprising was this for me however. I wonder if it was a gaffe by Erdoğan. "Plans are underway for the serial production of an additional 57 GÖKBEY helicopters for the needs of the Turkish Naval Forces Command." Should we expect a navalized ASW specialized T625? I wish!

Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan: Savunma sanayisinde tam bağımsız Türkiye hayalimizi gerçeğe dönüştürünceye kadar durmak yok

Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan, "Savunma sanayisinde tam bağımsız Türkiye hayalimizi gerçeğe dönüştürünceye kadar bize durmak, dinlenmek, nefeslenmek yok." dedi. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

View attachment 71662

Eventhough not navalized, Gökbey may serve the GM duties for Navy. But there was a word, once upon a time, that dipping sonar will be tested on Gökbey.

What is more surprising neither Land Forces awaiting for Gökbey to replace aged UH-1, nor Airforce places an order as high number as Navy's.

 

[Saithan]

Eventhough not navalized, Gökbey may serve the GM duties for Navy. But there was a word, once upon a time, that dipping sonar will be tested on Gökbey.

What is more surprising neither Land Forces awaiting for Gökbey to replace aged UH-1, nor Airforce places an order as high number as Navy's.

I genuinely suspect that these politicians want to weaken our armed forces just enough not to be a threat to them, but can be used as cannon fodder to outwards enemies. TN is being considered as political tool because the big vessels can be sent around to foister their interests and as such TN doesn't pose a direct threat to these politicians as their domain is the sea and they can't reach Ankara.

 

[Radko]

I genuinely suspect that these politicians want to weaken our armed forces just enough not to be a threat to them, but can be used as cannon fodder to outwards enemies. TN is being considered as political tool because the big vessels can be sent around to foister their interests and as such TN doesn't pose a direct threat to these politicians as their domain is the sea and they can't reach Ankara.

Politicians?

Blame KKK or HvKK for not showing interest

 

[Tornadoss]

Politicians?

Blame KKK or HvKK for not showing interest

It's not Army branches that is making purchases but SSB.

 

[Sanchez]

It's not Army branches that is making purchases but SSB.

It's a bit more complex than that.

Eventhough not navalized, Gökbey may serve the GM duties for Navy. But there was a word, once upon a time, that dipping sonar will be tested on Gökbey.

What is more surprising neither Land Forces awaiting for Gökbey to replace aged UH-1, nor Airforce places an order as high number as Navy's.

We argued about this a lot in the past. I still think a T625N could be a pretty good standin for a Wildcat and could supplement our Seahawks. It can carry marines, missiles, sonobuoys, single torpedos, radar, dipping sonar. Maybe it wouldn't be a complete package like MH-60S, but it would be ours. We could employ two sets of T625s as hunter killer ASW formations, one to carry sonobuoy and sonar, other to carry the torpedo, like the Soviets did with Ka-27 back in the day. Unsure if Brits do it, but we know Koreans do use their Wildcat in hunter killer formations.

Wonder if Istifs could carry two folded T625s in their hangar if they made a really tight fit.
We use Seahawks to fight wildfires and to strike ground targets, to carry SAT teams. Maybe Seahawks could be relegated to only ASW duties and T625 could take the GM role as you said. It could carry 4 UMTAS-GMs or 2 Çakırs, could carry a full SAT team. I think its potential is pretty big and will be a great clean slate to work on.