TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

OPTIMUS

Committed member
Messages
189
Reactions
2 463
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Do we really have to get European original upgrade package? Would it be impossible for ASELSAN to upgrade T1s with Turkish AESA?

View attachment 73819
View attachment 73820
On the other hand, look at the numbers of underwing pods. ASELSAN could create forward looking AESA pods for EF. Sacrificing two pods under each wing for AESA , future Turkish EFs could use even domestic S2 a missiles.

impossible!!!


In Tranche 1 machines, all microprocessors are of the Motorola 68020 type, which is called a General Purpose Processor (GPP). In these LRU computers, the application software can only work with this one specific hardware of the respective mission computer, which can make changes difficult or impossible.

Tranche 1 aircraft, on the other hand, can and will only be improved to a limited extent through software updates (drops). A solution to the Tranche 1 obsolescence problem is currently not in sight.

In short, if you have Tranche 1, then you have a problem!!! a big problem!!!

Bringing a Tranche 1 to a Tranche 2 means rebuilding the aircraft completely.

In contrast to the F-22 and Rafale F2/3, the Eurofighter does not yet use integrated modular avionics (IMA). While in both cases all sensor data is fed into a central data processing system, in the Typhoon the sensor data is processed by several subsystems in order to be combined to form an overall tactical picture of the situation. The avionics consists of several computers that are linked via fiber optic cables according to STANAG 3910 and can transmit up to 1,000 Mbit/s. Individual systems also represent "islands" in the avionics and are only connected to the fiber optic network via another computer. The subsystems of the Praetorian system, the friend-or-foe query systems, the basic aircraft systems, the weapons control system and the cockpit subsystems are linked via MIL-STD-1553 data buses, which are designed for a lower data throughput of 100 Mbit/s. In addition to the local air cooling of individual components, the waste heat from the avionics and the anti-G suit is transferred via liquid cooling circuits to the fuel, which serves as a heat sink. The entire software of the Eurofighter is written in Ada. At the time of project development, the Eurofighter was the largest Ada software project in Europe.

For Tranche 2 aircraft, the avionics were completely overhauled according to ASAAC, i.e. a strict separation of a function in hardware and software. EADS began developing IMA on a COTS basis according to the ASAAC standard for aircraft such as the Eurofighter before 2001.
The core element of this Universal Aircraft Computer (UAC) was the separation between hardware, hardware abstraction layer (HAL), operating system and application software (apps). In contrast to the Rafale, which switched directly to IMA for F2, the original avionics architecture was retained for the Eurofighter's Tranche 2 to reduce risk, but the computing modules were standardized and a uniform real-time operating system (OS) was chosen for all mission computers with Integrity-178B. Hardware, HAL and OS are the same for all LRIs, only the apps differ depending on the mission computer's area of application. For communication between the computers, each LRI has a Common EFEX Module (CEM), which serves as an intermediary between the ASAAC standard and real Eurofighter technology. ASAAC works with packet switching, whereas EFEX uses a predefined transmission table. The Eurofighter's apps/mission computers communicate with a type of mailbox system and store the mail in the target computer, while the information is sent to ASAAC via virtual channels. Furthermore, each LRI has three Common Processing Modules (CPM) which run the application software on the OS. All four modules of the LRI are connected via a VMEbus backplane. The LRIs are supplied by Rockwell Collins, for example, correspond to the 1/2 ATR standard, are air-cooled, have six slots and can provide up to 250 W. The three processor cards have dual/quad-core processors and PCI mezzanine cards with mass storage. If the VMEBus or EFEX is not sufficient, 10 GEth lines can be connected. IPA6 and IPA7 were used for the flight tests of the new avionics, which were required for international approval.

The Tranche 1 machines are limited in terms of software due to their limited computing power: for example, during a bombing mission it is possible to locate an air target using ESM/ECM and shoot at it using AMRAAM, but then it is no longer possible to switch to air-to-ground mode. This was only remedied in Tranche 2 by increasing computing power.
 
Last edited:

OPTIMUS

Committed member
Messages
189
Reactions
2 463
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
My personal opinion:

If I were to see Tranche 1 aircraft in the Turkish Air Force at some point, it would be the second Casa Olayi for me (see CASA OLAYI by Nezih Tavlas -1990). And many generals and politicians would have filled their pockets again!!!!
 

IC3M@N FX

Well-known member
Messages
339
Reactions
14 692
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey

Super Lightning Statement from TAI: They'll think it's an F-16
Başak Berber23 February 2025 1 minute reading time

Mehmet Demiroğlu, General Manager of Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), made important statements to SavunmaSanayiST at the IDEX Fair in Abu Dhabi.

Demiroğlu shared the latest developments regarding TAI's unmanned aerial platforms, and detailed the future of unmanned aerial vehicles such as the Şimşek and Super Şimşek.

Development of Şimşek and Super Şimşek
Demiroğlu emphasized that Şimşek is usually used as a target aircraft, but now it can also serve as a kamikaze drone. Demiroğlu said, "As you know, Şimşek has been in use for years. It is usually used as a target aircraft, but we have also turned it into a kamikaze drone."

Stating that Super Simsek is an important development in terms of speed and carrying capacity, Demiroğlu said, "Our next product is Super Simsek. It is a platform that can reach up to 0.85 macha in terms of speed and can reach over 50 kilograms in terms of explosives and payload."

Stating that Super Simsek can be used in different configurations, Demiroğlu said, "We can use it in different configurations from ANKA, AKSUNGUR and ANKA-3, both kamikaze, decoy, seeker warheads or electronic warfare. We are also producing this configuration, and we have started its tests."

Future Swarm UAVs

In addition to the Super Lightning and Lightning, TAI is also working on swarm UAV technology. Demiroğlu stated that such platforms will play an important role in battlefields. Demiroğlu said, "At the same time, we will also be making their swarm UAVs. We are also continuing our work on this subject."

Pointing out that asymmetric warfare is being used more and more, Demiroğlu said, "Now, battlefields are working with asymmetric platforms or ammunition or systems. We see them being used a lot. Şimşek and Super Şimşek will close a gap, a serious gap in this regard."

Super Lightning and Air Defense Strategy
Demiroğlu also made statements about how Super Lightning can be used against air defense systems. "A Super Lightning can make itself look like an F-16, F-35 or KAAN," Demiroğlu said, adding that radars will see the Super Lightning as a real aircraft, which means that air defense systems will be turned on and other kamikaze drones will carry out targeted attacks. "When the radars see it like that, they will turn on the air defense systems. The kamikaze drones in the other group will destroy them with their seeker heads."

Demiroğlu emphasized that they plan to neutralize air defense systems with this strategy:

"One of the missions of ANKA-3 or unmanned aerial vehicles is to open corridors and neutralize air defense systems. We plan to do this with Super Lightning and other platforms."

I find this in combination with Anka 3, ballistic missiles and long-range Cruise Missiles SOM Series e.g. very effective for deep strike missions to overload an enemy's very modern air defense in Greece or in Middle East.
If you improve the RCS even further and coat them with RAM, they could cause chaos.
 

Zoth

Active member
Messages
112
Reactions
5 221
Nation of residence
Greece
Nation of origin
Turkey
Regarding upgrading the Eurofighters with our own AESA radar, which AESA radar? Murad will enter into mass production around early 2026 and that's at best case scenario where there are no delays. How many of those we can build in a year, which planes are going to be utilized first, Kizilelma, Hurjet, Kaan, Ozgur 2 modernization, or Eurofighters and maybe Anka 3?

I'm sorry but we don't have this mass scale of production capability yet, it's much better to get those EFs as T4 or T5 and have a finished system that works, we already have so many projects that requires our own avionics which are not ready.
 

OPTIMUS

Committed member
Messages
189
Reactions
2 463
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Regarding upgrade of EF T1 , i would say challenges are big but not impossible.

Due to the upgrade from Tranche 1 to Trannche 2 of the Spanish Air Force, Spain could not pay for completed 14 new Eurofighters and the new ones had to be stored until Spain paid the money for 14 new EF2000s.

Gentlemen, when we talk about upgrading from T1 to T2, we must have money and a lot of money and time. We have too little of both.

EF2000 is itself a very expensive aircraft with all the trimmings. Then also upgrade from T1..... have fun. Then no one should complain why Turkish soldier looks poor.
 

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,373
Reactions
160 17,111
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Regarding upgrade of EF T1 , i would say challenges are big but not impossible.
Bro, why do you think UK have decided to decommission them all?
The cost of upgrading them to T2/T3 has been deemed economically unviable. Structurally they need extensive upgrades too. Not just computers and avionics.

Spanish may have spent close to 30 million for their initial T1 upgrade to T2 with some specific T3 hardware included.

For the meteor missile to be employed by the aircraft, the Typhoons had to receive the P2Eb software upgrade (Phase 2 Enhancements B) This can be done on T2 aircraft.

quote:

The British MOD also states that the decision to withdraw the Tranche 1 fleet is because its software cannot be updated to Tranche 3-standard in the same way the Tranche 2s can. Due to this, the remaining Tranche 1s have been left out of type-specific upgrades and are not able to employ the full range of weapons that the Tranche 2/3s can – such as MBDA’s Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM).

unquote.
 
Last edited:

UkroTurk

Experienced member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
2,699
Reactions
55 4,814
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Bro, why do you think UK have decided to decommission them all?
The cost of upgrading them to T2/T3 has been deemed economically unviable. Structurally they need extensive upgrades too. Not just computers and avionics.

Spanish may have spent close to 30 million for their initial T1 upgrade to T2 with some specific T3 hardware included.

For the meteor missile to be employed by the aircraft, the Typhoons had to receive the P2Eb software upgrade (Phase 2 Enhancements B) This can be done on T2 aircraft.

The British MOD also states that the decision to withdraw the Tranche 1 fleet is because its software cannot be updated to Tranche 3-standard in the same way the Tranche 2s can. Due to this, the remaining Tranche 1s have been left out of type-specific upgrades and are not able to employ the full range of weapons that the Tranche 2/3s can – such as MBDA’s Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM).
Yeah you're right. Upgrade needs hefty money. But Other countries have other more reasonable alternatives on the table despite spending on upgrade. Apart from Meteor as an aircraft EF is good. As i said challenges are big but not impossible. I believe in ASELSAN capabilities. Our engineers could turn all software Hardware shits domestical sas if they were made in Türkiye.

On the other hand scrutinizing all details of EF will add great experience to TAI. İt is worth to purchase.

BTW i saw our CASAs over Egean coast flying like fighters. Please do not shit on CASAs they are really manevour planes.
 

OPTIMUS

Committed member
Messages
189
Reactions
2 463
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Due to the upgrade from Tranche 1 to Trannche 2 of the Spanish Air Force, Spain could not pay for completed 14 new Eurofighters and the new ones had to be stored until Spain paid the money for 14 new EF2000s.

Gentlemen, when we talk about upgrading from T1 to T2, we must have money and a lot of money and time. We have too little of both.

EF2000 is itself a very expensive aircraft with all the trimmings. Then also upgrade from T1..... have fun. Then no one should complain why Turkish soldier looks poor.
Do you know what has been modernized at Spanish EF2000 : not much. Nevertheless, Spain has run out of money :

Upgrage included the following:

* one computer symbol generator,
* a digital video and voice recorder,
* a laser designator POD and
* a control panel for maintenance.

A total of 15 Spanish Eurofighters of Tranche 1 will be upgraded!!!!
 

Zoth

Active member
Messages
112
Reactions
5 221
Nation of residence
Greece
Nation of origin
Turkey
I'm not even sure why would we get T1s in this rate, but if our Airforce requires EF T1 it seems we are in a really dire situation,
Yeah you're right. Upgrade needs hefty money. But Other countries have other more reasonable alternatives on the table despite spending on upgrade. Apart from Meteor as an aircraft EF is good. As i said challenges are big but not impossible. I believe in ASELSAN capabilities. Our engineers could turn all software Hardware shits domestical sas if they were made in Türkiye.

On the other hand scrutinizing all details of EF will add great experience to TAI. İt is worth to purchase.

BTW i saw our CASAs over Egean coast flying like fighters. Please do not shit on CASAs they are really manevour planes.
The reason we have decided to buy EFs in the first place is to counter Greek Rafales until our Kaan gets into service. We don't even have a damn test airplane dedicated for radars yet so the tests on MURAD can be made much easier, we are talking about integrating it into EFs, as i already said above this is not an achievable target. So i see no reason to buy those T1s and either upgrade them ourselves or get them upgraded by others, simply not worth it.

Edit: I'm going to be brutally honest here, we have became quite capable on producing so many protoypes, the real deal is making those prototypes enter into mass production which we are not that good at it yet. We simply have become a small USA in this state, it's good to have dreams and big ambitions but we should hold our horses and look at the stuff from a realistic point of view.
 

OPTIMUS

Committed member
Messages
189
Reactions
2 463
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Yeah you're right. Upgrade needs hefty money. But Other countries have other more reasonable alternatives on the table despite spending on upgrade. Apart from Meteor as an aircraft EF is good. As i said challenges are big but not impossible. I believe in ASELSAN capabilities. Our engineers could turn all software Hardware shits domestical sas if they were made in Türkiye.

On the other hand scrutinizing all details of EF will add great experience to TAI. İt is worth to purchase.

BTW i saw our CASAs over Egean coast flying like fighters. Please do not shit on CASAs they are really manevour planes.

but they are not suitable as transport aircraft. What did the TurAf want to have: maneuvering aircraft or transport aircraft?

You can't even get an F110 engine into the plane.

As far as ASELSAN capabilities are concerned: My suggestion then: From the Russians we should get bare Su 35 and the rest do ASELSAN????

Let's stay on earth....
 
Last edited:

UkroTurk

Experienced member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
2,699
Reactions
55 4,814
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Internal saboteur in the people mindalways says :no no no you can't!

We could put god damn domestic AESA radars in , on, under , back everywhere of EF T1. We could transform theese god damn EFs into T999999.
 

boredaf

Experienced member
Messages
1,560
Solutions
1
Reactions
19 4,352
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Internal saboteur in the people mindalways says :no no no you can't!

We could put god damn domestic AESA radars in , on, under , back everywhere of EF T1. We could transform theese god damn EFs into T999999.
Get back down to earth mate, that's not how real life works.
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom