TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Lool]

We don't have that kind of money. All of our savings for the last 2 years just went poof last month.

bro (if you meant by savings the reserves accumulated), you do realise that Turkey was in the negative for 2 whole years in terms of reserves during 2023 and 2024? Yet, the TAF was operating just fine and was even producing, procuring, and researching
I wonder from where they magically got the money?

As I said before, one of the admins (2-3 years ago) in this forum did post before that the actual defence budget of the TAF isnt clearly disclosed to the public in detail but I forgot on which thread it was posted on

 

[Sanchez]

you do realise that Turkey was in the negative for 2 whole years in terms of reserves during 2023 and 2024? Yet, the TAF was operating just fine and was even producing, procuring, and researching
I wonder from where they magically got the money?

US is in the red 3/1 to its budget for the last 20 years, that's not how finance works. Army is a government institution, it continues working just like any other continued to work. Central Bank being in the red doesn't mean we ran out of money. 89% of the budget comes from taxes, we work our asses off so the glorious leader can spend it away on bullshit like imprisoning his opponents.

This is one of the reasons Kaan development and procurement will also hit a brick wall once program actually starts needing money infusion in the form of actual orders.

 

[boredaf]

89% of the budget comes from taxes

And lest we overlook, this doesn't have to be like that, at all. It is just the result of another short sighted policy decision they made early on, by privatising everything that actually made the government money.

 

[Huelague]

Is Brasilia interested in Kaan?

 

[Azareen]

I don't know how Turks feel in their own country, I have read lots of criticism about the ruling government, but as an outsider, not a citizen of the country, I feel really amazed with what turkey has achieved in last 20 years, being eagerly awaiting, and requesting to be included in EU, turkey is in a position, in par with the best of European countries in defence productions, power projection, even the EU may be ruing themselves for not including, just because turkey was a Muslim state, and it takes massive planning implementations of projects, and distribution of funds, and so on. Some of the opportunities would have been used to gain power, as it's the most important thing, if you are to implement these projects, planes you need to be in power. Just imagine being still dependent on western weapons, and fulfilling the western leaders political agendas, anticipating the approval of weapons, where turkey would be today and whatever that's going on today, the rule of Erdogan would be remembered outside of turkey, as a golden era, a period he liberation of turkey from the clutches of dependent on western countries, to a position of self sufficiency, strength and a power to be reckoned with.

 

[uçuyorum]

I don't know how Turks feel in their own country, I have read lots of criticism about the ruling government, but as an outsider, not a citizen of the country, I feel really amazed with what turkey has achieved in last 20 years, being eagerly awaiting, and requesting to be included in EU, turkey is in a position, in par with the best of European countries in defence productions, power projection, even the EU may be ruing themselves for not including, just because turkey was a Muslim state, and it takes massive planning implementations of projects, and distribution of funds, and so on. Some of the opportunities would have been used to gain power, as it's the most important thing, if you are to implement these projects, planes you need to be in power. Just imagine being still dependent on western weapons, and fulfilling the western leaders political agendas, anticipating the approval of weapons, where turkey would be today and whatever that's going on today, the rule of Erdogan would be remembered outside of turkey, as a golden era, a period he liberation of turkey from the clutches of dependent on western countries, to a position of self sufficiency, strength and a power to be reckoned with.

Let me offer you some insight. Acquiring such potential in terms of human capital, technological and institutional capacity takes a long time and a lot of investment, planning, and you have to cut from other things, a lot has to be sacrificed. The military and technological potential of Turkey was built in many decades and sometimes its difficult to see the results, people who started initiatives that take 20 years etc are usually no longer around to take credit for it. What happened in the past decades was culmination of 50 years of effort, but the problem was, all the potential was spent in a short amount of time, and prematurely, and now the current institutions in their weakened form are not able to replace or build upon the previous, instead seeds that have been sown now will show their most significang results down the line, but cracks are already being seen, with military, human, technological, diplomatic and economic capital being burnt like wildfire, it may make a an extravagant display to outsiders, but will leave only ashes behind. It will take many decades to pay the interest, let alone the debt, and recover institutional damage dealt, if at all possible.

 

[begturan]

I don't know how Turks feel in their own country, I have read lots of criticism about the ruling government, but as an outsider, not a citizen of the country, I feel really amazed with what turkey has achieved in last 20 years, being eagerly awaiting, and requesting to be included in EU, turkey is in a position, in par with the best of European countries in defence productions, power projection, even the EU may be ruing themselves for not including, just because turkey was a Muslim state, and it takes massive planning implementations of projects, and distribution of funds, and so on. Some of the opportunities would have been used to gain power, as it's the most important thing, if you are to implement these projects, planes you need to be in power. Just imagine being still dependent on western weapons, and fulfilling the western leaders political agendas, anticipating the approval of weapons, where turkey would be today and whatever that's going on today, the rule of Erdogan would be remembered outside of turkey, as a golden era, a period he liberation of turkey from the clutches of dependent on western countries, to a position of self sufficiency, strength and a power to be reckoned with.

In short, people in Türkiye are very interested in politics, so they separate from each other and always approach events from an ideological perspective. It is very difficult to find someone who is neutral and far from politics in Türkiye, and those who make neutral comments are always lynched.

This is a never-ending vicious circle in Türkiye. It is a bit difficult to make sense of it from the outside

 

[what]

Politics are better suited for the politics thread @Azareen
Lets not derail this one.

 

[Radko]

I remember about people talking about the vertical stabilisers and how they will be moved to the sides, instead of the current over the engine layout.

Well, whoever said that is wrong. Here is the proof:

More clearly this part:

As you can see, it is clearly the mountings for the vertical stabilisers, same as P0;

 

[Iskander]

I remember about people talking about the vertical stabilisers and how they will be moved to the sides, instead of the current over the engine layout.

Well, whoever said that is wrong. Here is the proof:
View attachment 74667
More clearly this part:
View attachment 74668

As you can see, it is clearly the mountings for the vertical stabilisers, same as P0;
View attachment 74669

Now you can't avoid an explanation of the advantages/disadvantages of each vertical stabilizer layout.

 

[starcrescent]

I remember about people talking about the vertical stabilisers and how they will be moved to the sides, instead of the current over the engine layout.

Well, whoever said that is wrong. Here is the proof:
View attachment 74667
More clearly this part:
View attachment 74668

As you can see, it is clearly the mountings for the vertical stabilisers, same as P0;
View attachment 74669

The placement of vertical stabilizer makes KAAN the true successor to F-14 Tomcat.

 

[uçuyorum]

You can't just move vertical stabilizers, you would have to move the engines, which would limit the size of iwb and middle fuselage. You can do the su57 / YF 23 layout but again that requires heavy redesign of tail and nozzles, meaning also change of engine and fuselage design. Its not simply move it 50cm to the side

 

[Radko]

You can't just move vertical stabilizers, you would have to move the engines, which would limit the size of iwb and middle fuselage. You can do the su57 / YF 23 layout but again that requires heavy redesign of tail and nozzles, meaning also change of engine and fuselage design. Its not simply move it 50cm to the side

Indeed, there are complex aero happening there with vortex' generated at the LEX's, so they have to be matched with that stream. That's why they ended up on the engines

 

[Hannibal]

I remember about people talking about the vertical stabilisers and how they will be moved to the sides, instead of the current over the engine layout.

Well, whoever said that is wrong. Here is the proof:
View attachment 74667
More clearly this part:
View attachment 74668

As you can see, it is clearly the mountings for the vertical stabilisers, same as P0;
View attachment 74669

Those photos are from P0, not P1. No official photos of P1 so far.
Parts manufacturing for P1 started 1-2 months ago, that photo was released January 21 2025.
It's very likely that the vertical stabilizers have been moved to the sides because Kaan's height has dropped by 1 metre.

 

[MADDOG]

Those photos are from P0, not P1. No official photos of P1 so far.
Parts manufacturing for P1 started 1-2 months ago, that photo was released January 21 2025.
It's very likely that the vertical stabilizers have been moved to the sides because Kaan's height has dropped by 1 metre.

MMU won't have its empennage altered to a significant degree. There will be changes across the fuselage, but moving the mounting points of the stabs would be a step too far. Even though P0 was pre-CDR, the design wasn't inordinately premature. We'll all be dissatisfied if we expect an excessive face-lift, an F-22 style rear end etc. for the second prototype.

 

[Hannibal]

MMU won't have its empennage altered to a significant degree. There will be changes across the fuselage, but moving the mounting points of the stabs would be a step too far. Even though P0 was pre-CDR, the design wasn't inordinately premature. We'll all be dissatisfied if we expect an excessive face-lift, an F-22 style rear end etc. for the second prototype.

I think P0 was rushed for the elections. I expect major design changes, and the significant changes to dimensions are an early proof of this. Another proof is they will reveal P1 at the end of 2025, not in the middle. Meaning more changes have been done rather than continuing on with P0.

 

[Radko]

I think P0 was rushed for the elections. I expect major design changes, and the significant changes to dimensions are an early proof of this. Another proof is they will reveal P1 at the end of 2025, not in the middle. Meaning more changes have been done rather than continuing on with P0.

You are so wrong on so many levels.

There weren't significant changes to dimensions. At least not the way you think. They updated brochure but that's for the P0. What's written in the new brochure is the correct dimensions for the P0, it isn't a new updated one for the P1.

Well, yesterday I just posted you the proof of vertical stabilisers being the same

 

[Radko]

Those photos are from P0, not P1. No official photos of P1 so far.
Parts manufacturing for P1 started 1-2 months ago, that photo was released January 21 2025.
It's very likely that the vertical stabilizers have been moved to the sides because Kaan's height has dropped by 1 metre.

They are from P1 production, shared by Haluk Görgün. The last one is from P0, as to show that it is the mounting for the vertical stabiliser

 

[MADDOG]

I think P0 was rushed for the elections. I expect major design changes, and the significant changes to dimensions are an early proof of this. Another proof is they will reveal P1 at the end of 2025, not in the middle. Meaning more changes have been done rather than continuing on with P0.

Sure dimensions change, and designs evolve. And yes, like many things in this country, timelines often get compressed due to political reasons. But P0’s production wasn’t rushed, what was rushed was its airworthiness certification for the maiden flight. The underlying design itself wasn’t premature. It had passed PDR (with CDR being around the corner), it was structurally sound.

The main reason P0 hasn’t conducted extensive flight testing is primarily due to systems limitations. The aircraft in its current state cannot sustain long-duration or high-envelope flights, not because the airframe can’t take it, but because its onboard subsystems aren’t fully integrated or mature. That’s why it makes far more sense to carry out deeper systems integration on P1, which is being developed with more time and less external pressure.

As for the airframe itself, the external fuselage design is largely mature but requires optimization, both aerodynamically and structurally. The more pressing refinement is on the structural side where detail design work is centered around the ribs, spars, and load paths, rather than wholesale changes to the OML. In MMU’s case, this makes sense. The aircraft is being built to integrate multiple subsystems being developed by different domestic companies. The structural layout has to accommodate that evolving internal architecture, which naturally leads to iterative refinement and not radical redesign.

 

[Hannibal]

You are so wrong on so many levels.

There weren't significant changes to dimensions. At least not the way you think. They updated brochure but that's for the P0. What's written in the new brochure is the correct dimensions for the P0, it isn't a new updated one for the P1.

Well, yesterday I just posted you the proof of vertical stabilisers being the same

Why update the brochure when the jet's dimensions will change again in one month? The brochure dimensions are for P1, not P0.

And they do not take into account the height of the cockpit when measuring the height of the aircraft. They take into account the vertical stabilizers.
If they dropped the height of Kaan by 1 meter, they must've changed the position of the vstabs. 1 meter is a massive decrease in height.