TR Attack & Utility Helicopter Programs

[Saithan]

In that case cancelling the T629 makes even less sense because the weight was much closer to T129 and that in itself would mean that we would have been able to deliver our own engine to a combat helicopter much sooner than a drawing on a paper.

with drones and loitering ammo in the air, and with Ukraine shooting down a fighterjet with a drone we've entered a new era, and all we got is Gökbey with CTS-800.

 

[Yasar_TR]

In that case cancelling the T629 makes even less sense because the weight was much closer to T129 and that in itself would mean that we would have been able to deliver our own engine to a combat helicopter much sooner than a drawing on a paper.

with drones and loitering ammo in the air, and with Ukraine shooting down a fighterjet with a drone we've entered a new era, and all we got is Gökbey with CTS-800.

Apart from Attack helicopters becoming natural and easy targets for drones and many air defence systems, T-129 has certain deficiencies that were subject for complaints. Being light and weak armoured were some of them. It had balancing issues. The force really had it’s hearts set in a heavy Atak-2.
But currently, the Atak helicopter fills in the need for our attack helicopter needs. It performs really well in the terrain it is operated.
We have to prioritise where we need to invest carefully in the short term. A T-925 is more urgent than a heavier attack helicopter at the moment. Armed forces etc have nearly 80+ of T-129 delivered or about to be delivered. There is no immediate need for more.

 

[I_Love_F16]

@Yasar_TR I thought TAI had the exclusive IP right of the T-129 ?

 

[Sanchez]

@Yasar_TR I thought TAI had the exclusive IP right of the T-129 ?

That part of the deal is a bit vague. Agusta/Leonardo didn't offer A129 to anyone after Turkey.

 

[Yasar_TR]

@Yasar_TR I thought TAI had the exclusive IP right of the T-129 ?

Under the agreement, Turkey has full marketing and intellectual rights of the T-129 helicopter.
But not of the foreign sourced components of the helicopter like the engines. The transmission was developed and built jointly by Tusas and Leonardo. Turkey probably has full rights over that too.

We may have full IP rights for the helicopter. But the joint partnership of the platform itself between Tusas and Leonardo, where the latter has provided the base platform and it’s technology has a say as a partner.
Tusas here has been focusing on indigenous development of mission computers, avionics, weapons systems, and other components. And holds full Intellectual Property rights.

But Leonardo, (Then Augusta Westland) must have provided the original design , and the contract drawn out must have stipulated the use of a CTS-800 engine which would be licence produced at TEI.

Edit:
I think we can sell it to anyone but Italy or UK!!!

 

[begturan]

This issue was discussed here before. T-129 Atak, albeit a Turkish built helicopter, it is a Turco-Italian joint venture project that allows us to produce it under licenses. Italians get their share from each sale of helicopter.

Although not confirmed, what makes T-129, as T-129, is the contractually accepted basics. It has to have a Honeywell CTS-800 engine which is manufactured under license in TEI. By another few years (2028) , the license to produce the helicopter will expire. What this expiration will mean we don’t know. But in the mean time, our T-129s have to be powered by the CTS-800 engines.

TS1400 engine is ready for serial production to fly civilian Gokbey. It already flew with one. But needs civilian certification.
To fly a T-129, the TS1400 engine needs special accessories to militarise it. As per Prof Aksit has pointed out it needs for example a new oil pump system so that when the aircraft tilts too much or makes a loop the engine is still well oiled. But TEI have not yet been advised to develop a militarised TS1400. Probably because the TS1400 can not contractually power T-129. (This issue was “insinuated” as being the case by Prof Aksit in one of his interviews)

So unless US releases the engine sale to Pakistan, the Atak will not be heading PAK way.

Everything is clear enough, i got to point, thank you for your efforts.

 

[Sanchez]

Our best look yet to an air force T70 CSAR helicopter with its LWR, MWR, RWR, RF jammer, FLIR and winch. Not sure about the winch, but rest are Aselsan products. Such a complete, great package. I do hope T70 issue is soon resolved and we can continue production.

 

[Strong AI]

Beauty

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1926924987887222785

 

[Pete Mitchell Maverick]

This color added a different atmosphere to the helicopter.

 

[Sanchez]

New T925 scale model from Paris Air Show.

 

[uçuyorum]

New T925 scale model from Paris Air Show.

View attachment 75891

Finally a more sensible version

 

[Strong AI]

Finally a more sensible version

You also made some design modifications. Can you briefly explain? Because needs evolve over time.
Two years ago, we showcased a mockup of the 10-ton. Based on updated needs assessments, it became clear that a helicopter more like the T70 one that meets most operational requirements at an optimal level is needed. So, we said, let’s build one helicopter that maximizes commonality and benefit. We discussed it again with the forces.
Instead of the helicopter from the original mockup, we evolved it into a slightly larger and heavier version of the T70 that can lift more and fly faster. We’re planning to unveil it at IDEF.

 

[Pokemonte13]

New T925 scale model from Paris Air Show.

View attachment 75891

T-70 that went to grandma for the weekend

 

[Sanchez]

We of course don't have the details and it's conjecture, but I do think OGM's request for a more conventional design did lead to this back doorless design, OGM being the launch customer. And DzKK requests were shafted as a result.

To restart the clock, Kotil had mentioned in 2022 that first flight of T925 would happen in March 2024, that obviously didn't happen. Current claim is Q3 of 2026 with production start in 2028. Another ambitious claim.

 

[Strong AI]

And DzKK requests were shafted as a result.

Yeah would be nice to have. But i think at least Aselsan will make them happy.

 

[mTT]

10-Ton Class Water Bomber Helicopter

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10-Ton Class General Purpose Helicopter​

 

[Khagan1923]

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Would not be surprised if we see an announcement that the engine to be used will be the T700-TEI-701D. I do not see another viable alternative in the near future to power this.

Then of course who knows might see our officials be stubborn and continue betting on an Ukraine who clearly is in no shape to deliver the needed engines.

And yet the Navy is in no shape to wait half a decade until they can get their hands on new naval choppers.

 

[Strong AI]

Would not be surprised if we see an announcement that the engine to be used will be the T700-TEI-701D. I do not see another viable alternative in the near future to power this.

Then of course who knows might see our officials be stubborn and continue betting on an Ukraine who clearly is in no shape to deliver the needed engines.

And yet the Navy is in no shape to wait half a decade until they can get their hands on new naval choppers.

We’re proceeding with the Ukrainian engine. At the same time, a local engine project is ongoing between SSB and TEI. Hopefully, like with Gökbey, we’ll see it fly with a local engine too.

 

[TR_123456]

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This looks better then the mockup sent to Paris Air Show.

 

[Khagan1923]

This project is going nowhere with Ukrainian engines they don’t need to kid themselves and us. T-929 is dead in the water for the exact same reason. And this one will be too.

Even before the war Ukraine was not
Reliable and even less now( understandable)