TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[TR_123456]

In response to a journalist's question, "Did you speak with Starmer about the export of the Eurofighter Typhoon? Are you ready to deliver them to Turkey?" Merz said, "We have not yet made a decision on export permits, but we are moving toward a good decision that would enable or provide such an export license. We will wait and see, but I will not make any statement regarding which countries we are considering in this matter."

Almanya'dan Türkiye'ye Eurofighter müjdesi! Başbakan Merz duyurdu

Haber 7 - Almanya Başbakanı Friedrich Merz, Türkiye’ye Eurofighter Typhoon'un ihracatına ilişkin, "İhracat izinleri konusunda henüz bir karar almadık, ancak ihracat lisansını mümkün kılacak veya sağlayacak iyi bir karara doğru ilerliyoruz" dedi.

www.haber7.com

This is no confirmation but the Turkish news outlet prints it as a confirmation.
''Almanyadan Türkiyeye Eurofighter müjdesi ........''
Dumb idiots.

 

[Sanchez]

"Turkey Nears Preliminary Deal for Eurofighter Combat Jet Order, Sources Say​

A principle of agreement could be announced at an industry fair in Istanbul​

Turkey could announce a preliminary deal for a multibillion-dollar order of Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jets as early as this week, according to two people familiar with the negotiations, in what would be a boost for Europe’s defense industry and an aircraft program that has become overshadowed by the U.S. F-35.

The contract, which analysts estimate could be worth around $5.6 billion, will apply to around 40 jets. But sources said the exact number and aircraft configuration are still being negotiated."

https://www.wsj.com/business/turkey-nears-preliminary-deal-for-eurofighter-combat-jet-order-sources-say-8cb2e959

 

[Hannibal]

"Turkey Nears Preliminary Deal for Eurofighter Combat Jet Order, Sources Say​

A principle of agreement could be announced at an industry fair in Istanbul​

Turkey could announce a preliminary deal for a multibillion-dollar order of Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jets as early as this week, according to two people familiar with the negotiations, in what would be a boost for Europe’s defense industry and an aircraft program that has become overshadowed by the U.S. F-35.

The contract, which analysts estimate could be worth around $5.6 billion, will apply to around 40 jets. But sources said the exact number and aircraft configuration are still being negotiated."

https://www.wsj.com/business/turkey-nears-preliminary-deal-for-eurofighter-combat-jet-order-sources-say-8cb2e959

They realised those F-35s will never come to Turkiye after what happened in Syria with Israel.

Israelis would eat grass before they let Turkiye get F-35. Because that’s their only card in the region now = air superiority.

 

[Sanchez]

Because that’s their only card in the region now = air superiority

Well it literally is a trump card, so they do have a point!

 

[Oublious]

@TheInsider

According to Ardan Zenturk we will buy the first batch EF but after that some kind joint development.

 

[Samba]

Since LM has showcased Turkish F16- 70 mockup, can we expect some news regarding the delivery schedule. We already paid some money too...

 

[Sanchez]

but after that some kind joint development

He doesn't say development but production, akin to F-16 production in Turkey. Which would be so much more than what we expected.

 

[Oublious]

He doesn't say development but production, akin to F-16 production in Turkey. Which would be so much more than what we expected.

yes wrong translate from me, now the puzzle is complete Germans did not wanted give licence production .

 

[TheInsider]

@TheInsider

According to Ardan Zenturk we will buy the first batch EF but after that some kind joint development.

I doubt this. I think Turkish weapons and subsystem integration are on the agenda.

 

[Yasar_TR]

He doesn't say development but production, akin to F-16 production in Turkey. Which would be so much more than what we expected.

In fact he is talking about Starmer and Merz agreeing on a kind of parallel production licence being given to Turkey to overcome the hurdle of Germany agreeing to the export licence.

Somehow a form of production licence to be given to Turkey similar to the production of the F16s.

That means, TuAF must think, since these planes will be valid till post 2060s, it could be the workhorse of the airforce until KAANs are in full swing. That means they must be envisaging more than just 2 squadrons being purchased. If we are to co-produce them with the consortium members, it will be more economical and it will generate more customers for the planes too. This may be a win win situation for us. We will have one foot in the room with the likes of BAE Systems and Airbus.

 

[Sanchez]

In fact he is talking about Starmer and Merz agreeing on a kind of parallel production licence being given to Turkey to overcome the hurdle of Germany agreeing to the export licence.

Somehow a form of production licence to be given to Turkey similar to the production of the F16s.

That means, TuAF must think, since these planes will be valid till post 2060s, it could be the workhorse of the airforce until KAANs are in full swing. That means they must be envisaging more than just 2 squadrons being purchased. If we are to co-produce them with the consortium members, it will be more economical and it will generate more customers for the planes too. This may be a win win situation for us. We will have one foot in the room with the likes of BAE Systems and Airbus.

Disagree. "Export license" in that sense is given to the companies by German government to allow the export of the aircraft, tech, munitions etc. Not an export license to Turkey. There's nothing to circumvent there, there's no Eurofighter without the work of German companies. No production line can work without work from other countries, no one member of the consortium can just say fuck it and build it themselves, they have to share.

I think we can expect final assembly and some production to be made here if people are speaking to Zentürk of all people so openly. Weapons integration is already given, that's the whole point of the Eurofighter, all members own it equally and can fix it to their needs. Weapons integration will take time, but it will happen. But on spares, Turkey will no doubt will want even parallel lines to be built here.

On subsystems being replaced by Turkish ones, I'm less optimistic, it's not a platform we know much about.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Disagree. "Export license" in that sense is given to the companies by German government to allow the export of the aircraft, tech, munitions etc. Not an export license to Turkey. There's nothing to circumvent there, there's no Eurofighter without the work of German companies. No production line can work without work from other countries, no one member of the consortium can just say fuck it and build it themselves, they have to share.

There is fine line here.
export licence vs parallel export licence.

If you listen to the video, he says to overcome outright export licence a parallel export licence will be utilised. There is supposed to be a signing ceremony on 24th between Tusas and Airbus.
According to that video, my understanding is that, Airbus Germany, Airbus Spain, BAE Systems and Leonardo will be manufacturing with TUSAŞ being involved in part assembly lines etc. in Turkey.

 

[Sanchez]

There is fine line here.
export licence vs parallel export licence.

If you listen to the video, he says to overcome outright export licence a parallel export licence will be utilised. There is supposed to be a signing ceremony on 24th between Tusas and Airbus.
According to that video, my understanding is that, Airbus Germany, Airbus Spain, BAE Systems and Leonardo will be manufacturing with TUSAŞ being involved in part assembly lines etc. in Turkey.

But both require Germany to provide the said export licenses for those companies to share it with Turkey. What's the point, what is stopping from the German government from providing the export license for the first one but not the second one?

 

[Yasar_TR]

But both require Germany to provide the said export licenses for those companies to share it with Turkey. What's the point, what is stopping from the German government from providing the export license for the first one but not the second one?

One is licence for direct sale of planes,
The other is co production licence with 3 other members in Turkey.

There must be some legal back door, that would enable to bypass the first export licence situation.

We will find out on 24th if it is true.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947929909726159351

STATEMENT ON THE MEETING OF THE DEFENCE MINISTERS OF THE REPUBLIC OF TÜRKİYE AND THE UNITED KINGDOM

The Defence Ministers of the Republic of Türkiye and United Kingdom welcomed the opportunity to meet at the 17th International Defence Industry Fair in Istanbul today and reaffirmed the strength of the Türkiye-UK partnership. They underscored the importance of the two countries’ longstanding defence cooperation, including collaboration through NATO and growing ties in defence industry and security. Both Ministers committed to deepening this strategic partnership in support of the Alliance’s collective deterrence.

The two nations continue to make excellent progress on the export of Eurofighter Typhoon. Welcoming Türkiye as a Typhoon operator would build on the bonds of friendship developed over many decades between key NATO Allies and would be a significant step towards enhancing Türkiye’s advanced combat air capabilities. This will mark the start of a new chapter in the Türkiye-UK partnership, working together to strengthen capability collaboration and supporting both countries' defence industries through the reciprocal purchase of word-leading equipment.

The Defence Ministers have today jointly signed a Memorandum of Understanding. This document codifies the relationship between the countries, taking them one step closer to a full agreement on Typhoon. Both Ministers welcome signature as a positive step towards bringing Türkiye into the Typhoon club and share a mutual ambition to conclude the necessary arrangements as soon as possible.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947935172831416584

 

[Sanchez]

Great news! But not yet an order.

 

[Ahlatshah]

Great news! But not yet an order.

From this stage, there is no turning back, otherwise noone would do business with them.

Eurofighters are coming

 

[Ripley]

(Paywall)

Federal government clears way for Eurofighter delivery to Turkey

According to SPIEGEL information, the Federal Security Council has approved a preliminary request from Ankara for 40 Eurofighter fighter jets. They are to be built in the UK with components supplied from Germany.

(S+) Türkei: Deutschland macht Weg für Eurofighter-Lieferung frei

Nach Informationen des SPIEGEL hat der Bundessicherheitsrat eine Voranfrage aus Ankara für 40 Eurofighter-Kampfjets positiv entschieden. Sie sollen in Großbritannien mit Zulieferungen aus Deutschland gebaut werden.

www.spiegel.de

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947913422261100897

“Germany gives conditional approval to Turkey's #Eurofighter jet purchase.

According to leaked information from the German magazine Spiegel, the Federal German Security Council officially approved the export license requested by the UK in March 2023.
This has paved the way for the sale of 40 aircraft worth a total of 4.75 billion Euros.
During the decision-making process, the German government also consulted with Greek Prime Minister Mitsotakis, and after the decision, the UK, Turkish, and Greek governments were informed.
Turkey provided assurances during the decision-making process that the aircraft would only be used within the framework of NATO solidarity. [In the Spiegel report, this is interpreted as: Not to be used against any other NATO member].”

So, if this deal goes through with the underlined assurance, TurAF won’t be operating them in West Turkey, Aegean region to be precise?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947939877342851306

“If we must find a positive reading, we can read it as follows:

There are no restrictions on the use of aircraft in Cyprus, Syria, Iraq, etc. The issue in Greece, however, is Germany’s recognition of Greece’s “sovereignty zone.” In other words, our flights over international airspace/waters [* of Aegean region] are perceived by them as “against a NATO country.” Otherwise, it’s not the case that these aircraft are completely banned from the Aegean.”

If true, I’m not happy. if Germans “consulted” the Greek Government and our government gave “assurance“ as we all know that only assurance that would satisfy the Greek government is not flying over supposedly their territory.

 

[boredaf]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947913422261100897

“Germany gives conditional approval to Turkey's #Eurofighter jet purchase.

According to leaked information from the German magazine Spiegel, the Federal German Security Council officially approved the export license requested by the UK in March 2023.
This has paved the way for the sale of 40 aircraft worth a total of 4.75 billion Euros.
During the decision-making process, the German government also consulted with Greek Prime Minister Mitsotakis, and after the decision, the UK, Turkish, and Greek governments were informed.
Turkey provided assurances during the decision-making process that the aircraft would only be used within the framework of NATO solidarity. [In the Spiegel report, this is interpreted as: Not to be used against any other NATO member].”

So, if this deal goes through with the underlined assurance, TurAF won’t be operating them in West Turkey, Aegean region to be precise?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947939877342851306

“If we must find a positive reading, we can read it as follows:

There are no restrictions on the use of aircraft in Cyprus, Syria, Iraq, etc. The issue in Greece, however, is Germany’s recognition of Greece’s “sovereignty zone.” In other words, our flights over international airspace/waters [* of Aegean region] are perceived by them as “against a NATO country.” Otherwise, it’s not the case that these aircraft are completely banned from the Aegean.”

If true, I’m not happy. if Germans “consulted” the Greek Government and our government gave “assurance“ as we all know that only assurance that would satisfy the Greek government is not flying over supposedly their territory.

We can pinky promise and keep them away until the deliveries are completed, afterwards, they can go fuck themselves. We need them desperately for about a decade at most anyway.