TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Zafer]

Maybe someday KE powered by EJ200. Let me dream...

Kızılelma started with cheaper engines to emerge as an affordable piece of equipment however its evolving capabilities justify a bigger price and a more expensive engine along with it. TF10000 will probably move the performance needle up like 10% which will give the bare minimum it needs. Moving up a rumoured Baykar engine will double the power in like 4 years in which case EJ200 is only like another 12% on top of it. So it depends on whether Baykar's engine efforts will pan out in a reasonable timeframe if EJ200 will have a chance. Probably though because the Baykar engine and the EJ200 have similar specs they can be interchangable in an upgraded Kızılelma. Even this scenario is challenged by a twin 10.000k engine version that will give similar power levels. Baykar is quick in their dealings, if the European market embraces the idea of an EJ200 powered Kızılelma Baykar can make it in the Italian ecosystem.

 

[Strong AI]

Kızılelma started with cheaper engines to emerge as an affordable piece of equipment however its evolving capabilities justify a bigger price and a more expensive engine along with it. TF10000 will probably move the performance needle up like 10% which will give the bare minimum it needs. Moving up a rumoured Baykar engine will double the power in like 4 years in which case EJ200 is only like another 12% on top of it. So it depends on whether Baykar's engine efforts will pan out in a reasonable timeframe if EJ200 will have a chance. Probably though because the Baykar engine and the EJ200 have similar specs they can be interchangable in an upgraded Kızılelma. Even this scenario is challenged by a twin 10.000k engine version that will give similar power levels. Baykar is quick in their dealings, if the European market embraces the idea of an EJ200 powered Kızılelma Baykar can make it in the Italian ecosystem.

Did anyone other than Tolga Özbek talk about an Baykar made 20.000 lb engine? Is it even confirmed by Baykar?

 

[Zafer]

Did anyone other than Tolga Özbek talk about an Baykar made 20.000 lb engine? Is it even confirmed by Baykar?

Baykar talked about an engine but didn't specify a power level. Now that TEI is making the TF10k engine Baykar must be making an engine on another level. Considering that a 20k engine can also be used on Hürjet and possible other variants it makes sense to think that Baykar is making such an engine.

 

[Yasar_TR]

If Baykar wants to stay as master of unmanned air vehicles they should concentrate on that subject and leave the engine technology to those who are masters of it. Otherwise they will be Jack of all trades but master of none.

They still haven’t mastered KE yet. There is so much they need to accomplish with KE that diversifying in to engine building will only dilute their real goal.

KE needs supersonic flight testing, internal weapons bay testing, RAM paint application, improvements to it’s low observability, improvements to it’s airframe to give it more manoeuvrability, increasing it’s LOS operational distance via relay systems, AI capability for air combat including non-susceptibility to outside interference, improving it’s operational envelope including more altitude and a possible twin engine development.
KE is not that much of an expendable cheap plane. It needs to be as stealthy as possible and should have passive sensors to alert ground crew for possible attack on itself.

 

[Kaan Azman]

Agreed, while I am totally fine with them producing TM100, gas turbines is a far bigger deal that takes time, people, and resources, especially those to power unmanned fighters. Even though they are opening a department the other challenges stand.

At most, I would support some small turbojet but they got that part covered by IdeaLab

 

[Zafer]

If Baykar need an engine in 4 years and TEI can deliver one in 7 years Baykar won't wait for TEI to do the job. It is the same for all agile companies. Look at what Elon Musk is upto talking about making photo-lithography machines to make microchips and all. Vertical integration is inevitable if you want to be competitive.

 

[Agha Sher]

If Baykar need an engine in 4 years and TEI can deliver one in 7 years Baykar won't wait for TEI to do the job. It is the same for all agile companies. Look at what Elon Musk is upto talking about making photo-lithography machines to make microchips and all. Vertical integration is inevitable if you want to be competitive.

It goes in circles. vertical integration is a necessity when no one else can reliably solve a problem. Over time, many will figure out how to solve the problem very well making vertical integration a liability.

 

[Zafer]

It goes in circles. vertical integration is a necessity when no one else can reliably solve a problem. Over time, many will figure out how to solve the problem very well making vertical integration a liability.

The world is in a period of rapid change, time is in short supply

 

[AlperTunga]

If Baykar need an engine in 4 years and TEI can deliver one in 7 years Baykar won't wait for TEI to do the job. It is the same for all agile companies. Look at what Elon Musk is upto talking about making photo-lithography machines to make microchips and all. Vertical integration is inevitable if you want to be competitive.

Agree. TEI is too sluggish. Baykar will be a very large company in the future. We are talking about an engine that Hürjet can fly with, it is not about 6.th generation engine, so no need for specialization here.

 

[Huelague]

Otherwise they will be Jack of all trades but master of none.

...overtimes better than master of one

 

[Trakya_forever]

Baykar can't produce a turbofan engine ( dry trust over 10.000 lbf ) alone. Cooperation is possible. They pay the money, someone else (Ivchenko etc) make the engine. TF6000 or 10000 (ab) is not enough for real/future Kızılelma. It is sure.

 

[Pokemonte13]

Well they did have good relations with Motor Sich and bought Piaggio which has at least some experience in engines and produces parts for F135 engine.

 

[Zafer]

Kızılelma is an unmanned fighter, it needs an engine that can be delivered in a short time like 4 years from the beginning of the project. The engine does not need to be 100% mature like the manned fighter engines do. When you want to use the engine on a manned plane you spend more time maturing it but in the case of Kızılelma you just need an engine that delivers the power and stays in the air, so an experimental engine is just fine for Kızılelma. They can even experiment with novel features and fly it once it proves to be durable in flight. So you don't need to be a top notch engine maker to make it. Baykar should keep the design in house but outsource parts making for many of its parts. Also TurAF will probably not be the majority user as there is the Euro market and the rest of the world. You just need to make it available when the customer is ready to buy.

 

[Pokemonte13]

Kızılelma is an unmanned fighter, it needs an engine that can be delivered in a short time like 4 years from the beginning of the project. The engine does not need to be 100% mature like the manned fighter engines do. When you want to use the engine on a manned plane you spend more time maturing it but in the case of Kızılelma you just need an engine that delivers the power and stays in the air, so an experimental engine is just fine for Kızılelma. They can even experiment with novel features and fly it once it proves to be durable in flight. So you don't need to be a top notch engine maker to make it. Baykar should keep the design in house but outsource parts making for many of its parts. Also TurAF will probably not be the majority user as there is the Euro market and the rest of the world. You just need to make it available when the customer is ready to buy.

its not easier to test and develop an engine for kizilelma its just that the risk of loosing of an airframe is more acceptable because their is no pilot but no one is going to buy 50 million dollar drone with half baked subsytems

 

[Zafer]

its not easier to test and develop an engine for kizilelma its just that the risk of loosing of an airframe is more acceptable because their is no pilot but no one is going to buy 50 million dollar drone with half baked subsytems

What are their options to buy, nada
Your half baked engine maybe having some of the latest innovations that can bring cutting edge capabilities