Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[Gary]

KRI KST-356 monitoring foreign vessels in the North Natuna Sea.

-PLA Navy DDG-174 Guiyang
-Vietnamese fisheries monitoring vessels Kiem Ngu-221
-JMSDF JS Setogiri DDG-156

 

[Madokafc]

Are we using Pindad's R-Han 122 for this MRLs?

They would purchase the bulk of rocket from aboard if not most of it, and only small portion from RHAN as subject test, RHAN 122 still not pass the certification process

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367438892694081536

 

[R4duga]

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...ive-in-jakarta-to-discuss-type-214-submarines

04 MARCH 2021

TKMS representatives arrive in Jakarta to discuss Type 214 submarines​

by Ridzwan Rahmat

TKMS is understood to be offering a Type 214 variant that is similar to the Hellenic Navy’s Papanikolis-class boats. (Michael Nitz/Naval Press Service) A delegation of representatives from German shipbuilder Thyssen-Krupp Marine Systems (TKMS) has arrived in Jakarta to discuss the potential acquisition of Type 214 diesel-electric submarines (SSKs) for the Indonesian Navy (Tentera Nasional Indonesia – Angkatan Laut: TNI-AL).

The delegation, which is headed by a TKMS Senior Vice President that is responsible for the eastern region, completed their last day of quarantine procedures on 2 March, and began discussions with representatives from the Indonesian Ministry of State Owned Enterprises and the Ministry of Defence (MoD) a day later, a source close to the ongoing discussions has confirmed with Janes.

Among matters that are being discussed include the TNI-AL’s operational requirements, work-share arrangements that can be offered by TKMS to the local shipbuilding industry, infrastructure support, and financing terms should a procurement programme for the boats materialise.

Besides Jakarta, the TKMS delegation will also be visiting PT PAL’s submarine production facilities in Surabaya.

The Type 214 SSK from TKMS is one of several programmes that have been recently included in the MoD’s ‘Blue Book’– a list of proposed procurements that either have, or are being escalated to the Indonesian Ministry of National Development Planning (Kementerian Perencanaan Pembangunan Nasional: BAPPENAS) for funding approval.

The escalation, which outlines a requirement for up to four Type 214 boats, was disclosed in the 2021 edition of a yearly publication for Indonesian Armed Forces (Tentara Nasional Indonesia: TNI) and MoD staff known as the ‘Leadership Assembly’. The publication features opening remarks from TNI Chief Air Vice Marshal Hadi Tjahjanto and Defence Minister Prabowo Subianto.

Janes​

 

[NEKO]

The escalation, which outlines a requirement for up to four Type 214 boats,

Four? A surprise to be sure but a welcome one, is there any possibility of typo?

If we choose scorpene will it be 4 unit?

 

[Parry Brima]

Four? A surprise to be sure but a welcome one, is there any possibility of typo?

If we choose scorpene will it be 4 unit?

If we refer to the leaked list from Rapim we want :

- 5 Scorpene
- 4 Type 214
- 2 CBG
- 2 midget sub N310

 

[Umigami]

If we refer to the leaked list from Rapim we want :

- 5 Scorpene
- 4 Type 214
- 2 CBG
- 2 midget sub N310

View attachment 15376

Borong borong borong!!!

 

[R4duga]

Four? A surprise to be sure but a welcome one, is there any possibility of typo?

If we choose scorpene will it be 4 unit?

choose ? why do we need to choose if we can get both presumably

 

[Madokafc]

choose ? why do we need to choose if we can get both presumably

We should act like a SULTAN !!!

 

[Soman45]

MoD nowadays :

btw how is our chance to purchase them both? is it possible?

 

[NEKO]

If we refer to the leaked list from Rapim we want :

- 5 Scorpene
- 4 Type 214
- 2 CBG
- 2 midget sub N310

View attachment 15376

Truly a collector.

choose ? why do we need to choose if we can get both presumably

Why both if we can get three.

 

[Anmdt]

If we refer to the leaked list from Rapim we want :

- 5 Scorpene
- 4 Type 214
- 2 CBG
- 2 midget sub N310

View attachment 15376

Germans are not stupid, they wouldn't sell 2 of the midget submarines knowing it is prone to be copied. They have a sense on how many midget submarines Indonesian Navy needs or plans in near future.
And i remembered just now, there are type 200 and type 300, and N310 which is upgraded variant of type 300.
Type 200 and 300 was extensively evaluated by Turkish Navy and wasn't found effective in 2000s, let's see how N310 is.

 

[Madokafc]

Germans are not stupid, they wouldn't sell 2 of the midget submarines knowing it is prone to be copied. They have a sense on how many midget submarines Indonesian Navy needs or plans in near future.

That's why they offer TKMS U214, to give more margin benefit.

 

[Anmdt]

That's why they offer TKMS U214, to give more margin benefit.

Indonesia actually had plans for high numbers of mini-subs, am i wrong?. I rather referred N310 to that part. Or not interested in mini-subs anymore?
I actually mean,TKMS would prefer the deliver the license for the platform,instead of selling 2 and knowing it can be copied, so that it can be built in high numbers with a license. 2 units from a mini-sub doesn't make sense operationally or financially.

 

[Madokafc]

Indonesia actually had plans for high numbers of mini-subs, am i wrong?. I rather referred N310 to that part. Or not interested in mini-subs anymore?
I actually mean,TKMS would prefer the deliver the license for the platform,instead of selling 2 and knowing it can be copied, so that it can be built in high numbers with a license. 2 units from a mini-sub doesn't make sense operationally or financially.

The thing is the Navy focused more on conventional Submarine forces, and the mini Sub projects so far is more or less as educational research purpose to build proper Submarine design in near future. They know there is high chance Indonesia Navy must operated their Submarine far from their comfort operational zone to act as interdiction , Vanguard and screening forces units, a roles any midget Submarine doesn't have any advantage.

Btw, to have a midget Submarine like this one is beneficial for training purpose platform in near future. On other hand they too can act as more better partner training for the newly re-built ASW vessels and other platform of Indonesia Navy. That's why the number of two seems very rational for me right now.

Edit, there is other purpose i had read it somewhere on some paper, they intended to use them as Swimmer delivery vehicles for Special Forces. But nonetheless i can't confirmed it for now.

But it safe to assume there is heavy emphasize for Indonesia Navy to use conventional Submarine as deterrence forces. Meanwhile midget Submarine more like as educational, training platform and other roles.

 

[NEKO]

If we refer to the leaked list from Rapim we want :

- 5 Scorpene
- 4 Type 214
- 2 CBG
- 2 midget sub N310

View attachment 15376

And i was thinking that the Germans sub will be competing against French sub.

11 new submarine for MEF 3 (2021 - 2024) from 3 different type.
Big question about the number and submarine type. I wonder if its really urgent and sh1t about to get real very soon, if its true then make sense to order it from 3 different country and 3 sub will be built almost simultaneously.

Have 8 submarine by 2024 : acceptable.
12 submarine by 2024 : very good.
16 submarine by 2024 (or 2024+, maybe the scorpene will be built locally and take longer time) : YES! YES! YES!
That's triple of our current sub.

But still won't believe it until its official.

 

[Madokafc]

And i was thinking that the Germans sub will be competing against French sub.

11 new submarine for MEF 3 (2021 - 2024) from 3 different type.
Big question about the number and submarine type. I wonder if its really urgent and sh1t about to get real very soon, if its true then make sense to order it from 3 different country and 3 sub will be built almost simultaneously.

Have 8 submarine by 2024 : acceptable.
12 submarine by 2024 : very good.
16 submarine by 2024 (or 2024+, maybe the scorpene will be built locally and take longer time) : YES! YES! YES!
That's triple of our current sub.

But still won't believe it until its official.

They should starting to ponder which Weapon name should fit enough for any future Submarine name

 

[Parry Brima]

Indonesia actually had plans for high numbers of mini-subs, am i wrong?. I rather referred N310 to that part. Or not interested in mini-subs anymore?
I actually mean,TKMS would prefer the deliver the license for the platform,instead of selling 2 and knowing it can be copied, so that it can be built in high numbers with a license. 2 units from a mini-sub doesn't make sense operationally or financially.

Do you know how much is the price of Germans midget submarine these days? more than $100 mil?

It's probably wiser to just purchase the second hand unit of 209/1400 sub if new midget sub is too pricey. Brazil is offering their used 209/1400 Tupi class for only $70 mil including the refurbishment cost.

 

[afiq0110]

The thing is the Navy focused more on conventional Submarine forces, and the mini Sub projects so far is more or less as educational research purpose to build proper Submarine design in near future. They know there is high chance Indonesia Navy must operated their Submarine far from their comfort operational zone to act as interdiction , Vanguard and screening forces units, a roles any midget Submarine doesn't have any advantage.

Btw, to have a midget Submarine like this one is beneficial for training purpose platform in near future. On other hand they too can act as more better partner training for the newly re-built ASW vessels and other platform of Indonesia Navy. That's why the number of two seems very rational for me right now.

Edit, there is other purpose i had read it somewhere on some paper, they intended to use them as Swimmer delivery vehicles for Special Forces. But nonetheless i can't confirmed it for now.

But it safe to assume there is heavy emphasize for Indonesia Navy to use conventional Submarine as deterrence forces. Meanwhile midget Submarine more like as educational, training platform and other roles.

Other role.... I like the sound of it

 

[Anmdt]

And i was thinking that the Germans sub will be competing against French sub.

11 new submarine for MEF 3 (2021 - 2024) from 3 different type.
Big question about the number and submarine type. I wonder if its really urgent and sh1t about to get real very soon, if its true then make sense to order it from 3 different country and 3 sub will be built almost simultaneously.

Have 8 submarine by 2024 : acceptable.
12 submarine by 2024 : very good.
16 submarine by 2024 (or 2024+, maybe the scorpene will be built locally and take longer time) : YES! YES! YES!
That's triple of our current sub.

But still won't believe it until its official.

When do you plan to train all those personnel (referring to the latter 2 options of 12 and 16) also 3 years to procure 3 new submarines seems hard (unless used).

The thing is the Navy focused more on conventional Submarine forces, and the mini Sub projects so far is more or less as educational research purpose to build proper Submarine design in near future. They know there is high chance Indonesia Navy must operated their Submarine far from their comfort operational zone to act as interdiction , Vanguard and screening forces units, a roles any midget Submarine doesn't have any advantage.

Btw, to have a midget Submarine like this one is beneficial for training purpose platform in near future. On other hand they too can act as more better partner training for the newly re-built ASW vessels and other platform of Indonesia Navy. That's why the number of two seems very rational for me right now.

Edit, there is other purpose i had read it somewhere on some paper, they intended to use them as Swimmer delivery vehicles for Special Forces. But nonetheless i can't confirmed it for now.

But it safe to assume there is heavy emphasize for Indonesia Navy to use conventional Submarine as deterrence forces. Meanwhile midget Submarine more like as educational, training platform and other roles.

SDVs better to be designed according ,usually with less range, less endurance smaller in sizes. N310 would be a bit big and ineffective for that.

N310 is almost a real submarine except its payload and sensors are rather limited.
It is not easier to operate or maintain compared to a submarine as well it would be similarly same.
It almost has all similar sensors as a real submarine. And similar kind of machinery -shafting. (Unless we are talking about some crappy midget subs or N.Korea)

Just it is really small that gives an upper hand in crowded shallow waters with its flexibility to pass through coastal areas or shallow straits between islands. Thus i always assumed Indonesia has been interested in these platforms.