Turkey expects to lay ground for Kanal Istanbul project in summer

[Zafer]

Source?

It was cited in a Youtube video by a commenter without giving an original source.
Help yourself finding it. Ships are waiting we know that by just being an İstanbulite, we can only not tell how long.

 

[Nutuk]

That's what I mean, things based on hearsay is never the right way to do it.

I like to see full environment impact report
feasibility reports
calculated break even point (when the investment pays itself)
expected income and expenses report


You see everything around the canal is so vague it simply does not give a trustable feeling. When you rush this kind of investments without proper base you will leave as government a big problem to the next governments and the nation.

The same investment models have been used on bridges and highways in which the state is paying idiot amounts of money yearly (maybe the reason why Turkey is in such bad economic shape, to many money slurping black holes)

 

[Combat-Master]

One thing we haven't taken into consideration is that Istanbul straight is a bottle neck - a bottle neck that could keep us out of the Black Sea. Same for Canakale Straight, another bottle neck that could keep us out of the sea of islands.. Wouldn't it be an advantage for the Navy to have multiple routes of access to both seas ?

 

[Nutuk]

One thing we haven't taken into consideration is that Istanbul straight is a bottle neck - a bottle neck that could keep us out of the Black Sea. Same for Canakale Straight, another bottle neck that could keep us out of the sea of islands.. Wouldn't it be an advantage for the Navy to have multiple routes of access to both seas ?

Advantage maybe yes, but at what price?

 

[Zafer]

That'

One thing we haven't taken into consideration is that Istanbul straight is a bottle neck - a bottle neck that could keep us out of the Black Sea. Same for Canakale Straight, another bottle neck that could keep us out of the sea of islands.. Wouldn't it be an advantage for the Navy to have multiple routes of access to both seas ?

That's for sure, actually as I mentioned earlier a tanker passing through one of the straights can be sunken by a terrorist attack blocking passage for months cutting all traffic both civilian and military.

This canal and others are multifaceted issues and can not be looked at just for its obvious monetary profit.
It is about your sovereignty on your geographic assets. We can't leave them untapped.

 

[CAN_TR]

One thing we haven't taken into consideration is that Istanbul straight is a bottle neck - a bottle neck that could keep us out of the Black Sea. Same for Canakale Straight, another bottle neck that could keep us out of the sea of islands.. Wouldn't it be an advantage for the Navy to have multiple routes of access to both seas ?

Don't think that a second route in the Canakkale strait would be much of a strategic advantage, overall not worth the money.

 

[CAN_TR]

That'

That's for sure, actually as I mentioned earlier a tanker passing through one of the straights can be sunken by a terrorist attack blocking passage for months cutting all traffic both civilian and military.

This canal and others are multifaceted issues and can not be looked at just for its obvious monetary profit.
It is about your sovereignty on your geographic assets. We can't leave them untapped.

Show me a tanker that is big enough to block the Istanbul strait, let's not even talk about Canakkale...

 

[Combat-Master]

That'

That's for sure, actually as I mentioned earlier a tanker passing through one of the straights can be sunken by a terrorist attack blocking passage for months cutting all traffic both civilian and military.

This canal and others are multifaceted issues and can not be looked at just for its obvious monetary profit.
It is about your sovereignty on your geographic assets. We can't leave them untapped.

Don't think that a second route in the Canakkale strait would be much of a strategic advantage, overall not worth the money.

Both straights could be blockaded by submarines, having two exits and entrances would push adversary to split it's forces. The shortest distance between land connection on Canakale side is 4-5km, seems even more feasible to me.

 

[CAN_TR]

Both straights could be blockaded by submarines, having two exits and entrances would push adversary to split it's forces. The shortest distance between land connection on Canakale side is 4-5km, seems even more feasible to me.

Yeah but do you expect that a Canal sized passage would be a safe route? And i don't think that any sane country would try to send it's subs or other vessels so close to the Turkish shore.

Rather than a Canal the money should invested in a seperate Black Sea Navy.

 

[Xenon54]

 

[Lool]

IMO, if turkey really did build the canal, then they should leave the mentreux convention

The treaty was a sacrifice from turkey to solidify whatever they could save from the fall of the otoman empire. In the 1920s, turkey didnt have an army, was weak economically as well as technologically. Moreover, it wasnt a part of NATO!

However, things are different now
Turkey is one of the G20, has quite a decent army and defense industry, has a robust technological level, has a high level of population and workforce and is a member of NATO; thus, it would be beneficial for turkey to use both the new canal and the bosphorous maximally especially donsidering that the canal will disrupt russia canal that will take potential revenue of 8 billion dollars annually from turkey


The most important thing here is timing! They should never leave the treaty unless all bases are covered

 

[Nutuk]

The dumbest project of the century that only serves US military interests

 

[Xenon54]

IMO, if turkey really did build the canal, then they should leave the mentreux convention

The treaty was a sacrifice from turkey to solidify whatever they could save from the fall of the otoman empire. In the 1920s, turkey didnt have an army, was weak economically as well as technologically. Moreover, it wasnt a part of NATO!

However, things are different now
Turkey is one of the G20, has quite a decent army and defense industry, has a robust technological level, has a high level of population and workforce and is a member of NATO; thus, it would be beneficial for turkey to use both the new canal and the bosphorous maximally especially donsidering that the canal will disrupt russia canal that will take potential revenue of 8 billion dollars annually from turkey


The most important thing here is timing! They should never leave the treaty unless all bases are covered

Are you aware that if Turkey leave the Montreux convention then Lausanne treaty would take effect again which means the straits get demilitarized?

 

[Sinan]

Reis wants to destroy the Turkish nation, we don't have a money for such stupid project. Our central bank reserves are already at negative.

Opposition already said that they will stop and sue all the companies that will get involve with this stupid fantasy, in 2023.

 

[Anmdt]

then they should leave the mentreux convention

If There is any political power left,it should be used for updating montreux convention,not for leaving it.
The convention can be updated according to recent values, and turned into Turkish interest at greater extends,
They can start with:

making pilotage and tug assistance compulsory
declaring bosphorous,marmara sea and dardanelles no-emission-zone so all ships except military service should run on low-emission fuel or no-emission fuel
updating fee per GT at some favorable rates
forcing military ships to pass unarmed (guns deactivated), with unarmed personnel on deck, with all combat sensors turned off

But wait, these do not really provide any particular gain for certain people and companies so why bother?

 

[CAN_TR]

IMO, if turkey really did build the canal, then they should leave the mentreux convention

The treaty was a sacrifice from turkey to solidify whatever they could save from the fall of the otoman empire. In the 1920s, turkey didnt have an army, was weak economically as well as technologically. Moreover, it wasnt a part of NATO!

Just by reading the first sentence i see that you know NOTHING about the Montreux Convention, nothing!

Some people forget that the Montreux Con. also includes the Canakkale strait, the Marmara Sea, Gökceada, Bozcaada and Tavsan Islands

 

[Lool]

Are you aware that if Turkey leave the Montreux convention then Lausanne treaty would take effect again which means the straits get demilitarized?

I do know that such treaty normally ends after 100 years; thus, either in 2023 or in 2024
That is why I said timing is important

 

[Lool]

If There is any political power left,it should be used for updating montreux convention,not for leaving it.
The convention can be updated according to recent values, and turned into Turkish interest at greater extends,
They can start with:

making pilotage and tug assistance compulsory
declaring bosphorous,marmara sea and dardanelles no-emission-zone so all ships except military service should run on low-emission fuel or no-emission fuel
updating fee per GT at some favorable rates
forcing military ships to pass unarmed (guns deactivated), with unarmed personnel on deck, with all combat sensors turned off

But wait, these do not really provide any particular gain for certain people and companies so why bother?

The questions is, which country would be willing to support turkey in doing this?
If it could have been solved this peacefully, then you guys would have done it long ago

 

[Anmdt]

The questions is, which country would be willing to support turkey in doing this?
If it could have been solved this peacefully, then you guys would have done it long ago

Nobody has to support, those are sovereign waters of Turkish Republic which is governed by mutually agreed convention as long as it is not affecting safety of the Black Sea, or passage right of the military vessels, they have no reason to object Turkey's demands on security and environmental measures. This can be taken to international court and Turkey will win in this case (except of updating passage fees), there is no way they can ignore demands for the measures for safety and environment, regardless of who is opposing.
If it is not solved peacefully, Turkey has other rights to impose through some other ways.

 

[Nutuk]

What annoys me is that there is not one authority with knowledge of treaties who can tell if there is a way to cancel the Montreux treaty.

What happens here on forum is guess work. Guessing is not good enough, we need facts.

Turkey should be able to generate money from the Bosphorus and not only accept the pollution that foreign tanker traffic leaves behind. IMO Turkish politics is ultimately weak. Politics is like what SSM is for the defense industry, if there is no continuation, steadfast steering and pursuing of the countries interest, we get exactly what we have: international garbage level in politics.