TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

Ahlatshah · Aug 19, 2025

Zafer said:
Why would anyone get someone else involved in his business if he can get it done solo. Every partnership has its downsides and Europe is a big example of it.

Some reasons:
- Time: If a competent company get involved, overcoming technical difficulties would be much faster

- Money: Development costs will be divided

- Economics of scale: The more it is produced, the lower the price becomes.

- Marketability: Sellling countries like Spain can open other markets

and so on...

I will continue to say, we have to sell Kaan, otherwise it could become too expensive, there is no other way. In order to do that, getting countries as partner must be considered. Especially countries like Spain. Even US is doing that, despite doing everything.

PS: I dont know the Spain business is true or not, but nowadays these rumors are somewhat increasing. It would be a dream scenario for me if ITP and Spain get involved

Zafer · Aug 19, 2025

Ahlatshah said:
Some reasons:
- Time: If a competent company get involved, overcoming technical difficulties would be much faster

- Money: Development costs will be divided

- Economics of scale: The more it is produced, the lower the price becomes.

- Marketability: Sellling countries like Spain can open other markets

and so on...

I will continue to say, we have to sell Kaan, otherwise it could become too expensive, there is no other way. In order to do that, getting countries as partner must be considered. Especially countries like Spain. Even US is doing that, despite doing everything.

PS: I dont know the Spain business is true or not, but nowadays these rumors are somewhat increasing. It would be a dream scenario for me if ITP and Spain get involved

We have been through this process with the UK and it didn't work. We have to do the engine solo. We can take longer than we wish to but we end up with an unshared capability that we own.

Yasar_TR · Aug 19, 2025

Zafer said:
Why would anyone get someone else involved in his business if he can get it done solo. Every partnership has its downsides and Europe is a big example of it.

The bold lettered bit is the operative statement there.

We know how to play football in Turkey. Heck! We were 3rd best in the world once. But still have many foreign players in every team. Even the national team is managed by a foreigner.

Analogy to one side; having a partner that can look at it from a different angle of looking at solving problems is always a plus.
When TEI is new to building such a complex engine, and a competent and quick to access eco system is not in place, having a new partner that can easily fill that position is priceless.
When most of the quickly easily available parts are suddenly subject to hidden embargoes and you have to manufacture even the simplest part yourself it becomes an expensive and lengthy process. Having a partner that is exempt from it makes it all the more feasible.

Important point is for TEI and TRMotor to keep their hold on to IP rights and majority share of actual production and design rights in house.

Zafer · Aug 19, 2025

Yasar_TR said:
The bold lettered bit is the operative statement there.

We know how to play football in Turkey. Heck! We were 3rd best in the world once. But still have many foreign players in every team. Even the national team is managed by a foreigner.

Analogy to one side; having a partner that can look at it from a different angle of looking at solving problems is always a plus.
When TEI is new to building such a complex engine, and a competent and quick to access eco system is not in place, having a new partner that can easily fill that position is priceless.
When most of the quickly easily available parts are suddenly subject to hidden embargoes and you have to manufacture even the simplest part yourself it becomes an expensive and lengthy process. Having a partner that is exempt from it makes it all the more feasible.

Important point is for TEI and TRMotor to keep their hold on to IP rights and majority share of actual production and design rights in house.

Lets talk after the TF35000 engine gets ignited; if the smoke comes out white, "no, we are good", if it comes out black we may want to talk partnership in development. In any case production work share should be considered if Spain wants to be a partner in the Kaan Project.

boredaf · Aug 19, 2025

I find this aversion to partners, especially Western partners, quite shortsighted. So long as we make the agreement between us fair in a way that won't stop us from using it for our own purposes (and unless people making any potential deal are utter morons any agreement would be ironclad), there isn't a single negative to getting partners that can speed up the process, both in development and production.

Zafer · Aug 19, 2025

boredaf said:
I find this aversion to partners, especially Western partners, quite shortsighted. So long as we make the agreement between us fair in a way that won't stop us from using it for our own purposes (and unless people making any potential deal are utter morons any agreement would be ironclad), there isn't a single negative to getting partners that can speed up the process, both in development and production.

It is shortsighted to think that British technology will be handed down to Türkiye Through Spain and we will enjoy having it. Look at the US and how they are sanctioning the sale of every technology that once originated from the US and went into the making of ASML eUV machines. No deal is ironclad, they can sanction you as much as they want or their small partners want. You have to create the technology yourself to own it. And it is our opportunity to create a top technology that we can call our own and we can not afford to involve anyone else in it.

Yasar_TR · Aug 19, 2025

Zafer said:
Lets talk after the TF35000 engine gets ignited; if the smoke comes out white, "no, we are good", if it comes out black we may want to talk partnership in development. In any case production work share should be considered if Spain wants to be a partner in the Kaan Project.

Do you know why the Russian engines gave black smoke? Because they found that fat and short combustion chambers worked best for their compressor design. After Safran helped them they managed to correct some of that shortcoming.
Our engines are designed with western tech. They probably will not give black smoke. Both TS1400 and TF6000 first ignition photos don’t show any black smoke.
Should TF35000 give black smoke, neither you nor I will know about it anyway. Also it is not the end of the world. It may be a mixture or injector fault. Today’s FADEC assisted engines control compressor and fuel injectors to give best and optimum mixture.

Radko · Aug 19, 2025

Yasar_TR said:
Do you know why the Russian engines gave black smoke? Because they found that fat and short combustion chambers worked best for their compressor design. After Safran helped them they managed to correct some of that shortcoming.
Our engines are designed with western tech. They probably will not give black smoke. Both TS1400 and TF6000 first ignition photos don’t show any black smoke.
Should TF35000 give black smoke, neither you nor I will know about it anyway. Also it is not the end of the world. It may be a mixture or injector fault. Today’s FADEC assisted engines control compressor and fuel injectors to give best and optimum mixture.

I think he used it as an allegory there

Zafer · Aug 19, 2025

Yasar_TR said:
Do you know why the Russian engines gave black smoke? Because they found that fat and short combustion chambers worked best for their compressor design. After Safran helped them they managed to correct some of that shortcoming.
Our engines are designed with western tech. They probably will not give black smoke. Both TS1400 and TF6000 first ignition photos don’t show any black smoke.
Should TF35000 give black smoke, neither you nor I will know about it anyway. Also it is not the end of the world. It may be a mixture or injector fault. Today’s FADEC assisted engines control compressor and fuel injectors to give best and optimum mixture.

I mentioned white smoke with several different purposes

White smoke means good combustion / good engine / good result
White smoke means a new Pope is selected, a decision is made, which is good

And of course you can take it literally and work on combustion more to whiten the black. But if the initial results are good then we should definitely go solo. I believe our engineers will get it right the first time and the development of the engine will proceed as good as we think the TF6000 engine development is going. The pride factor and bragging rights is big in defence matters and we don't want to look like we need help to make an engine and be looked down on.

Ahlatshah · Aug 19, 2025

Zafer said:
It is shortsighted to think that British technology will be handed down to Türkiye Through Spain and we will enjoy having it. Look at the US and how they are sanctioning the sale of every technology that once originated from the US and went into the making of ASML eUV machines. No deal is ironclad, they can sanction you as much as they want or their small partners want. You have to create the technology yourself to own it. And it is our opportunity to create a top technology that we can call our own and we can not afford to involve anyone else in it.

The rumored and potential Spain situation and British position is not the same thing. Lets remember a bit:

We called British to get help for engine development. IP rights were going to belong two countries. We could sell the engine other countries too, without restrictions. Year was 2017 by the way. Then we did something unacceptable in the eyes of western culture, we tried to change the deal, after the seal: We tried get the Qataris and BMC involved to the project. Then RR first narrowed its position as withdraw from joint development to engineering counseling. Ultimately, deal failed altogether. Right now we wont have an engine until 2032, assuming everything goes flawlessly of course

Imagine a country that in NATO and EU with no clashing interest, which has much more experience in aviation than yours, which can get you real contribution to develop YOUR aircraft. Moreover, if a deal cut, there will be strong bond and alliance in world stage for decades to come. Then we will say no, we dont need you, just buy it or shut it

Respectfully...

Kale Grubu ve Rolls-Royce uçak motoru üretecek

Kale Grubu ve dünyanın en büyük uçak motor üreticilerinden Rolls-Royce, Türkiye'ye uçak motorları geliştirmek için el sıkıştı. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

Rolls-Royce Türkiye'nin savaş uçağına yönelik çalışmaların kapsamını daralttı - Savunma Sanayi Haberleri

İngiliz motor üreticisi Rolls-Royce, Türkiye'nin yerli savaş uçağının motorunu geliştirmek için Kale Grubu ile birlikte yürüttüğü çalışmaların kapsamını daralttığını duyurdu. Şirketin kararında, Kale Grubu ile görüşmelerde fikri mülkiyetlerin paylaşılması ve projeye Katar-Türk ortaklı bir şirketin k

www.haberturk.com

Milli Muharip Uçak için Rolls Royce'nin teklifi yeniden masada

Türk Havacılık ve Uzay Sanayii AŞ'nin (TUSAŞ) İngiliz BAE Systems şirketiyle 2017'de imzaladığı işbirliği anlaşıyla başlattığı milli muharip uçak (MMU) projesi sürerken 2023'te hangardan çıkması hedeflenen uçağın en kritik parçalarından motor temini konusu halen netlik kazanmadı. fazla oku Bu...

www.indyturk.com

what · Aug 19, 2025

Take it with a big pinch of salt, not sure how reliable this source is:

https://www.thearabweekly.com/strategic-shift-egypt-prepares-join-turkeys-kaan-stealth-fighter-project

Oublious · Aug 19, 2025

what said:
Take it with a big pinch of salt, not sure how reliable this source is:

https://www.thearabweekly.com/strategic-shift-egypt-prepares-join-turkeys-kaan-stealth-fighter-project

With what money?

They are living litterally with barrowed money. Asking credit buying oil and gas. They are in mess for coming 50 years.

TR_123456 · Aug 19, 2025

Oublious said:
With what money?

They are living litterally with barrowed money. Asking credit buying oil and gas. They are in mess for coming 50 years.

They will be financed by the GCC(as usual),you can be sure of that so no worries about money.
You should accept that Egypt is the Armed Forces of the GCC.

Zafer · Aug 20, 2025

Ahlatshah said:
The rumored and potential Spain situation and British position is not the same thing. Lets remember a bit:

We called British to get help for engine development. IP rights were going to belong two countries. We could sell the engine other countries too, without restrictions. Year was 2017 by the way. Then we did something unacceptable in the eyes of western culture, we tried to change the deal, after the seal: We tried get the Qataris and BMC involved to the project. Then RR first narrowed its position as withdraw from joint development to engineering counseling. Ultimately, deal failed altogether. Right now we wont have an engine until 2032, assuming everything goes flawlessly of course

Imagine a country that in NATO and EU with no clashing interest, which has much more experience in aviation than yours, which can get you real contribution to develop YOUR aircraft. Moreover, if a deal cut, there will be strong bond and alliance in world stage for decades to come. Then we will say no, we dont need you, just buy it or shut it

Respectfully...

Kale Grubu ve Rolls-Royce uçak motoru üretecek

Kale Grubu ve dünyanın en büyük uçak motor üreticilerinden Rolls-Royce, Türkiye'ye uçak motorları geliştirmek için el sıkıştı. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

Rolls-Royce Türkiye'nin savaş uçağına yönelik çalışmaların kapsamını daralttı - Savunma Sanayi Haberleri

İngiliz motor üreticisi Rolls-Royce, Türkiye'nin yerli savaş uçağının motorunu geliştirmek için Kale Grubu ile birlikte yürüttüğü çalışmaların kapsamını daralttığını duyurdu. Şirketin kararında, Kale Grubu ile görüşmelerde fikri mülkiyetlerin paylaşılması ve projeye Katar-Türk ortaklı bir şirketin k

www.haberturk.com

Milli Muharip Uçak için Rolls Royce'nin teklifi yeniden masada

Türk Havacılık ve Uzay Sanayii AŞ'nin (TUSAŞ) İngiliz BAE Systems şirketiyle 2017'de imzaladığı işbirliği anlaşıyla başlattığı milli muharip uçak (MMU) projesi sürerken 2023'te hangardan çıkması hedeflenen uçağın en kritik parçalarından motor temini konusu halen netlik kazanmadı. fazla oku Bu...

www.indyturk.com

Going to war with foreign weapons (I wonder what Azeris call that) is a losing proposition. Nobody wants to make you stronger other than your own self.

Oublious · Aug 20, 2025

TR_123456 said:
They will be financed by the GCC(as usual),you can be sure of that so no worries about money.
You should accept that Egypt is the Armed Forces of the GCC.

No, that door is closed. At the moment Egypt is not able to pay his energy. They made deal with israel, ther is so mich blackouts. They made big mistakes with that zohr gas fields, it seems to be a balloon.

They are not able to pay all that debt. They wasted money on that new city, people should forget Egypt. Gcc realised itis a blackhole.

Yasar_TR · Aug 30, 2025

KAAN prototiplerinin uçuş tarihi açıklandı | SavunmaSanayiST

TUSAŞ Genel Müdürü Mehmet Demiroğlu, KAAN’ın yeni prototip uçuş tarihlerini ve ANKA-III’ün tasarımına ilişkin değerlendirmelerini açıkladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Mr Demiroglu has made new statements about first flights of KAAN’s PT2 and PT3. He said “PT2 should fly in April 2026 and PT3 a month or so later”.

He has also made statements about the Anka-3 drone.

Most important point everyone is waiting for is the engine issue for both platforms.
Neither KAAN can fly without F110 nor Anka without TF6000.

In May 2025 this year Demiroglu had stated that they were ready to start serial production of Anka-3. That is a joke! We don’t have an engine to fly the plane! (Unless they made a deal with Honeywell or RR for Adour), the TF6000 is not ready and won’t be ready for a while since TEI has been told to prioritise TF10000.

MonteCarlo · Aug 30, 2025

Yasar_TR said:
KAAN prototiplerinin uçuş tarihi açıklandı | SavunmaSanayiST

TUSAŞ Genel Müdürü Mehmet Demiroğlu, KAAN’ın yeni prototip uçuş tarihlerini ve ANKA-III’ün tasarımına ilişkin değerlendirmelerini açıkladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Mr Demiroglu has made new statements about first flights of KAAN’s PT2 and PT3. He said “PT2 should fly in April 2026 and PT3 a month or so later”.

He has also made statements about the Anka-3 drone.

Most important point everyone is waiting for is the engine issue for both platforms.
Neither KAAN can fly without F110 nor Anka without TF6000.

In May 2025 this year Demiroglu had stated that they were ready to start serial production of Anka-3. That is a joke! We don’t have an engine to fly the plane! (Unless they made a deal with Honeywell or RR for Adour), the TF6000 is not ready and won’t be ready for a while since TEI has been told to prioritise TF10000.

Baykar doesn't seem to have any problems getting Ukranian engines(They are apparently assembling the 6th prototype) so if everything else is ready I don't think engine would be a huge problem for Anka-3. But do I think it is ready for serial production? hell no

Merzifonlu · Aug 30, 2025

Yasar_TR said:
We don’t have an engine to fly the plane! (Unless they made a deal with Honeywell or RR for Adour), the TF6000 is not ready and won’t be ready for a while since TEI has been told to prioritise TF10000.

Of course, if we are not going to use the TF-10000 engine on the Anka-3 then you are right.

Yasar_TR · Aug 30, 2025

MonteCarlo said:
Baykar doesn't seem to have any problems getting Ukranian engines(They are apparently assembling the 6th prototype) so if everything else is ready I don't think engine would be a huge problem for Anka-3. But do I think it is ready for serial production? hell no

Bro, Baykar had stockpiled a good number of engines prior to the war breaking out and/or while they could still buy the engines from Motor Sich. That factory has been bombed so many times as it is in the middle of the war zone that according to news coming through, it is not physically possible to manufacture there anymore. Plus most of their staff has left.

Hell! Baykar factory near Lviv (that is close to Polish border) has been hit last few days umpteenth time causing tens of millions of dollars worth of damage. It was near ready to start manufacturing.
Russians aren’t going to let Motor Sich to carry on manufacturing. Besides if Ukranians are able to manufacture anything, it is either in a different location underground, and whatever they produce, they need it themselves.

Also just remember the last Anka-3 incident when the Ukranian engine stopped and the plane made a rough landing in Konya causing extensive damage. Who in the right mind is brave enough to use these engines again on a 20-30 million dollar plane? Can you imagine it falling in to the hands of your adversaries?

Pokemonte13 · Aug 30, 2025

Merzifonlu said:
Of course, if we are not going to use the TF-10000 engine on the Anka-3 then you are right.

wouldn't make sense to use an afterburning engine and not use the afterburner just extra weight

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